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Okay, but what if I go the speed of light minus 1m/s and shine a flashlight, can I catch the photons?
Light ALWAYS travels away from you at the speed of light no matter how fast you and your flashlight are going. Something has to give and that is time. It may look to outside observers, not traveling that fast along with you, that light is going 1 m/s faster than you... but you would also appear to be moving in super slow motion trying to reach out for the beam. The faster you go the slower time moves for you.
Nope. In your frame of reference, they will still be moving at the speed of light.
I think the answer is that you are only traveling at almost light speed from reference frame of your start position.
The light of the lamp travels at light speed from your own reference speed which to you in a vacuum is 0.
Anyone correct if wrong please?
Correct. Physics gets really, really weird at relativistic speeds. Something to keep in mind is that the speed of light isn’t actually the speed of light itself, but rather the speed of causality - the universe’s hard limit at which any interactions can occur. Even if you are traveling at .99c from a certain reference frame, space time itself warps in such a way that light traveling away from you is still measured at 1c
Any observations wouldn't see anything but the whole light
I believe this is explained by Einstein in his example of the train in the Theory of Relativity
You're already traveling at the speed of light minus 1m/s relative to a reference frame that's traveling away from you at that speed.
No. Ever heard of the doppler effect?
Light behaves like a wave. But instead of hearing sound in a higher/slower pitch relative to the source, you'd be seeing a different color.
If you're going at the speed of light minus 1 m/s and you turn on a flashlight, the beam emitted by the flashlight will be travelling at the speed of light, according to your measurements. Time passes slower the faster you travel.
Ok, firstly I'm not very smart. Secondly I don't understand the meme AND don't understand the explanations in the comments.
Can anyone actually dumb it down so a stupid person like me can understand it?
Thing go slow - > speed act normal, speed add up between POV's, speed make sense AF
Thing light fast like - > speed act fucky wucky, speed don't add up at all between POV's, speed so fast make time fucky wucky too
I suggest watching these videos from Float Head Physics. They're just some of the clearest and most intuitive explanations of relativity I've seen, and any other explanation I give here would just be me attempting to paraphrase him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkv8sW6y3sY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vitf8YaVXhc
He has a whole playlist on special relativity which is really insightful if you want an even deeper dive, as well as playlists on other things like general relativity and quantum mechanics, all of which are based on building intuition instead of starting with complicated math equations.
For what it's worth, there's a damn good reason that Einstein's name is associated with being super smart.
you and two friends, Al and Be, are outside at night time. Al has a flashlight and flashes it at you and Be. Be is 20 feet away from Al, and you're 20 feet behind Be.
20ft 20ft
Al..........Be...........you
r1 r2
The photons from the light Al has hits Be first, so he sees it first. it took .03 seconds(r1) to reach Be.
After that, the photons hit you and you can see it. it took .03 seconds(r2) to reach you from Be.
They were both .03 seconds because you are equally apart and the speed of light is finite.
so, how long did it take the light to reach you from AI?
I'm not following how this explanation is supposed to help with their question. Like, what are you trying to get at here?
In this example all 3 observers are in the same reference frame. That is, each of them are moving at the same speed. This is not what the meme is about. In this example the night from Al would reach you 0.06s after he lit it. Which is expected in Newtonian physics.
The problem of the speed of light being the same for all observers is when they move at different speeds.
The scenario is: Alice is inside a train moving at almost the speed of light, and Bob is outside it, looking at the train. Let's set that light moves at 1m/s (for simplicity) and the wagon Alice is in is 1 meter long.
Alice is at one end of the wagon, and turns a flashlight on. Alice will see the other side of the wagon illuminated after 2 seconds (since the light has to reach the other end and bounce back). Since the wagon is 1 meter long and the speed of light is 1m/s.
However, when she turns the flashlight on, Bob is also looking. Let's say that the train moves at 0.99m/s. In that case, after 1 second the light would have traveled 1 meter, but the wagon (and Alice) has traveled 0.99m, therefore the light is only 0.01m away from Alice.
To summarize: after 1 second, in Alice's frame of reference, the light has just touched the other side of the wagon. Meanwhile, in Bob's reference frame, the light has only moved 0.01m away from Alice.
- expecting klaxon sound * ... is it 0.06 s? assuming it's a straight line
correct!
this is because the speed of light is finite. meaning it cannot speed up or slow down on its own.
both you and Be are observing the light at the same speed, but at different times and different distances.
A bit late to the party, but I'll try anyway!
So, first, speed is distance over time. Miles per second, kilometers per hour, whatever.
Consider a person rocketing by a planet in a little spaceship at a good fraction of the speed of light. To amuse themselves, they're bouncing a ball between two paddles on opposite walls of their craft. The ball describes a path like:
O--------O
--O----O
-----O
Of course, to a person on a planet they're blasting past, the path looks different - the ship moves a long way between each bounce, so they see:
O----------------------------------O
-------O------------------O
----------------O
The thing is, both of these are correct from each point of view - from each reference frame. For the shipboard person, the ball moves the width of the ship, and for the planetside person, it covers the distance the ship traveled in the bounce (plus some for the width).
Now, swap the ball for a photon, which always moves at the same speed. The distance the photon travels from the two points of view - the two reference frames - is different, so the time component of the photon's measured speed must change as well because the photon's speed remains the same! Each side sees the photon moving at the same speed, despite the difference in distance traversed each pov sees - which means each must also have a different measurement of the time involved!
So, time is compressed on the spaceship relative to the planet - from the ship, the planetside observer is moving very fast, while to the planetside observer, the space pilot is moving in slow motion. The speed of the photon is universal - it's the distance it travels between bounces, and therefore how long it takes to bounce, that differs between their perspectives.
And that is what is meant by time dilation, and why Matthew Mcconaughey was younger than his grandkids. His balls took longer to bounce......
Great explanation, well done!
In relativity both the planet and the ship see the other as moving slow. Not one fast the other slow.
I want to know why it works that way. I'm pretty sure we don't actually know why that is a law of nature, just that it is. Some of these things I learned in physics I was frustrated that we can't explain the why. We just kind of know this is what experiments tell us, and the math.
If you mean the relativity part, to my understanding space and time are basically a shared dimension, so the faster something is moving in space the slower it's moving in time. Why it's shared, I have no clue.
We don't actually know that space and time are a shared dimension though. Relativity treats it that way mathematically, but we don't know what space and time are. I'm also just one of those people who want to know the answer to everything, so when the answer is we don't know, or it works that way bcz it works that way frustrates me.
Even the idea that space and time are interconnected seems like an incomplete explanation to me.
To me, there's no reason space and time have to be connected. But they obviously are.
My favorite theory is that time isn't real, just an extremely stubborn illusion. Fun to think about, really difficult to prove.
Well strangely a lot of things are "it just works that way," at least to our current understanding, like gravity, electromagnetic forces, things tending towards lower energy states. We could conceivably live in a universe where a ball doesn't roll down a hill, it just stops where it is and retains its energy.
I saw something called the "fine tuning argument" that said there must be some higher power because our universe could not exist without those constants being what they are, but we also wouldn't exist to experience it otherwise so ¯\(ツ)/¯
Doppler who?
So, even if I run very fast, I still don't reach in time for the target people.
Welp, I just have to start early.
I think it's neat that Newton is taught first. As in: gravity is a function of mass. Because that works in so many scenarios.
But then you learn that gravity bends light and that photons have no mass.
So.... Gravity isn't a force, it's more like going downhill... in the dimension of time.
If they have no mass, how do they push solar sails?
They have momentum, but not mass (ignore the other explanation, like yes, E=sqrt(m0^2 c^4 + (pc)^2), but so what? m0=0 for photons)
As you can see, momentum, p, is p=E/c, and we know that the energy for light is proportional to its frequency, f, E=hf (h is Plank's constant). So, p=hf/c. When light is absorbed by a material momentum (and energy) conservation apply and it imparts p onto the object. If light is reflected it imparts 2*p, showing this is left as an exercize to the reader
They have mass. Everything that has energy has mass. They don't have inertial mass but it's just part of the equation
I think you are stating that backwards.
You can definitely say that everything with mass has energy. And yeah the two are kind of interchangeable.
But that does not mean that a photon HAS mass. It just means that we can calculate how much mass its energy is equivalent to.
They have momentum, not mass, in relativistic physics you need something more complex than p=mv to describe momentum.
Energy=mass always. Theoretically you can make a black hole out of light, or you can turn that photon energy into inertial mass by running light in a closed loop.
The speed of light isn't even really a speed, it's a property of space itself.
And also my furniture is a property of space itself
Your one furniture can do my favorite things but not my favorite amount
If your furniture is a property of space, is keeping it in a small apartment an act of theft?
If you were on a train that was travelling at 60 mph and you threw a ball (inside the train) and the ball was travelling at 10 mph (inside the train), then the ball would objectively be travelling at 70 mph. Any observer (outside the train) would be able to understand why it looks like 10 mph inside the train and 70 mph outside the train.
Are you with me?
Okay, so the same thing does not happen with light! If you turn on a flashlight (inside the train), the light would be travelling at 670,616,629 mph regardless of whether the train was stationary or moving. So an observer outside the train would see the light travelling at the same speed as an observer inside the train. Even if the train was some supersonic invention from the future, the light inside the train would still be travelling at 670,616,629 mph - not 670,616,629 mph plus the speed of the train. And both inside and outside the train, observers would see the light as travelling at that speed. That's the big thing to get hold of!
How can this possibly be the case?
The answer is that time itself actually slows down when we are in motion. At low speeds, the effect is negligible, but the closer we get to the speed of light, the more the effect becomes observeable, until, when we are travelling at the speed of light, time stands still. If we were able to go faster than the speed of light, we would be travelling backwards through time.
Thanks for fucking up my mind so I can't get anything done at work for the rest of the day lol
Oh it gets even weirder than that.
One observer can see two events happen simultaneously while another sees them happen at different times.
And EVEN WORSE than that, thanks to length contraction at relativistic speeds, you could have one observer think that a train is contained entirely within a tunnel, but another observer sees the train sticking out both ends of the tunnel at the same time without ever fitting entirely within it.
and/or: One observer objectively masures that object A is longer than object B, while another observer objectively measures that object B is longer than object A.
The two observers are not just hanging out together, of course. They are moving ridiculously fast relative to one another.
The speed of causality is a hell of a drug.
I finally feel (kinda) confident with time dilation, and now everyone's talking about length dilation 😭
So it's woven with space?
Yup moving through space faster means moving through time slower. Kinda like if you were traveling at a constant speed through a 2d grid, if you make your vertical speed faster, your horizontal speed would be slower, except replace the grid with spacetime where we're pretty much always traveling through time at ~1c and space at ~0
I remember learning that if a quasar is spinning fast enough, then the radio waves inside are theoretically traveling faster than light. Which means that some of the star's mass is actually experiencing time in reverse, until they breach the corona.
The same thing does happen with light, in that your simple first example does need to consider relativity if you want to be exceptionally precise. It's not correct to suggest these two scenarios are fundamentally different, where only one needs lorenz corrections. In truth, both scenarios do, its just that the correction is so insignificantly small for the first example that it can be left out without any significant change in the answer.
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