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[–] 139 points 6 months ago (9 children)

30,000 is roughly 1/3 of 60,000,000.

VERY roughly. Lol

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  • [–] 78 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Logarithmically scaled image. I'll leave the determination of the base of the Log as an exercise for the viewer.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    That's what I thought, so I investigated.

    The base of the log can be accounted for by a constant scale factor, because, for example, if n is the number of bison,

    log10(n)
    = log10(e^ln(n))
    = ln(n) log10(e) and log10(e) is a constant.
    This change of base is a linear scale on the logs.

    Hence we can just take log 10 of the numbers of bison, and scale the answer by a constant factor which is log10(correct base), getting
    7.778, 2.477 and 4.477
    Scale that by about 2 = log10(100) to match the 5 bison in the middle pictogram, and there should be
    16, 5, 9 bison on a logarithmic scale.

    The diagram is also wrong if it's logarithmic.

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  • [–] 67 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Each of the bison shapes in the 60mil example are actually clusters of bison so small you can't see them with the naked eye.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Jokes on you, I wear glasses and still can't see them

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Jokes on you, I have no eyes and I can't even read what you said.

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  • [–] 31 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    I think it gets the point across even if it's off by orders of magnitude.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    I get that, but I personally think 60,000,000 tiny buffalo would be more impactful. Can someone do a quick edit in Photoshop?

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  • [–] 30 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Because they finally caged the velociraptor in the middle image?

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  • [–] 28 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 27 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I don't think this is to scale.

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Settlers killed buffalo to force indigenous people into the reservation system. It was a big part of the genocide here, worth looking into if you get the chance.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    This is a buffalo:

    They are not the same animal as American bison, which are also not European bison for that matter.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    Isn't that a water buffalo? Not the same animal as the American Bison (commonly known as the American Buffalo.) I think once they have a 200 year old city named for them, you just have to accept that that's what they're called.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago

    Each buffalo in the first picture represents 242,914 buffalo. Which means the last picture would be about 1/10th of a bison, and the middle one would be just the tip of a horn.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago

    TIL There are 30,000 free roaming bison but there are 500,000 total including privately owned and commercial herds.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago

    I like the optimistic message but the graph scale is throwing me

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    300 is a hell of a bottleneck

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  • [–] 65 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    The decision to stop was required, but a ton of work was done to help the population rebound. What kind of misguided message is this trying to send?

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  • [–] 30 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    It's trying to tell people who think it's too much work to bother that it's not. I do it all the time, like when I have to wash the dishes and I tell myself "I'll just wash one dish" because I know if I do that I'll be a lot more motivated to continue, but if I keep looking at the whole problem before I start, I'll be too overwhelmed to do anything at all.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    That's about how I read it. Sometimes you don't have a solution to fix a problem, but ceasing to make it worse is a valuable course of action in itself. The bison aren't back the way they were, but they're not extinct either.

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  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago*

    Sure, the bison population is 0.05% of what it once was. And now that we're not actively attempting to extinct them, everything is hunky dory and no more work is needed.

    I don't know how else to interpret this. It sounds like the Bison Society would rather be a society dedicated to literal anything else. The Kick the Can Down the Road Society, perhaps.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I don't know the history of bison population. From the image, I assume there used to be a ton of bison. But then a science experiment involving velociraptors went awry, and only a small group of bison were left alive. Then those bison made an uprising against the velociraptor-experiments and invaded their area, allowing their population to grow again.

    How far off am I?

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    [–] 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    Also, like, it wasn’t just a “decision to stop” it was the end of a coincidence of factors. The mid century climatic conditions that led to several years of poor grass growth, with the combined hunting efforts of European American settlers on rail roads supported by the army’s policies against the Great Plains Indians, south eastern Indians displaced in to the great planes, and Great Plains Indians intensifying hunting via sophisticated methods they’d developed using horseback and fire arms, all driven by a demand for buffalo hides for use in industrial machinery. The end of the bad climatic conditions and the collapse of the hide trade due to development of other industrial materials is what stoped the over hunting.

    With the pressures of hunting decreased and a historic climatic event over, the population was able to rebound somewhat, but, due to the encroachment of farms and ranching never really recover. Also the genetic bottleneck of the population probably hasn’t helped things but that’s not super well studied.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago

    Wait. I need to know more about the Aperture Science dinosaur in 1889.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    So I'm not bothered by the inconsistent scale... but why is there a dinosaur peeking through the bottom of the 1889 column?!

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    So thats why charles in rdr2 was so mad about some foreigners killing bisons. Never knew they were endangered (also im not an american)

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago

    I'm not American either, but have heard of the near bison extinction. They made literal mountains of nothing but bison skulls.

    They skinned them and left their meat and bones to rot all over the prairie.

    It's hard to imagine it if you haven't seen the pictures. Even then, it's impossible.

    It's crazy to think about. Especially because it's such a cool and unique animal. I'm just happy that bison still exist. I hope their population keeps growing even though they will never be as many as they were.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    Science/Biology question for someone. If the Bison that exist today are all sourced from those last 300 Bison, are there genetic bottlenecks/recessive traits and defects that we've just permanently given to the entire Bison species forever and ever?

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  • [+] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Yes, for real. It is a shame that the European water buffalo is extinct for thousands of years. But we there are obviously Asian water buffalo in say Italy for mozarella production. It might make for a good proxy. Thankfully we do have some permafrost examples, so cloning might be an option.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    Thank goodness for the Bronx Zoo and the WCS.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    Not perfect recovery, but still a powerful reminder that “too late” isn’t always true. Stopping the damage is step one.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    THERE! ARE! FOUR! LIGHTS BISONS!!

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    What is the genetic diversity of the bison? Are they are going to be very inbred soon and die out?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Not gonna lie, thought those were coffee tables until I zoomed in

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    I thought this was about vaccines until I read the bottom.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    It does the job

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago

    60,000,000? Seems like they would've starved anyway.

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