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[–] 241 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (14 children)

Tylenol is a brand. Acetominophen was created in 1878 (or 1852, depending on who you ask).

e: That doesn't make RFKJr not wrong and insane, in case it needed saying.

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  • [–] 74 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Over half of Americans read at a 6th-grade level or lower and our President speaks at a 4th-grade level. How many you suppose know Tylenol and acetaminophen are the same thing?

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Just wait till they hear what big pharma is doing with paracetamol

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Wasn’t ibuprofen what they were blaming? Or did they switch to acetaminophen?

    Edit: just saw the Trump clip, now it’s acetaminophen’s fault, lmao. Funny how it’s something that’s actually safe to take for pain during pregnancy, because of course they can never pass up a chance at making women suffer

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    They don't care about women's suffering, but I think this is a case where it's incompetence rather than malice.

    What's extra crazy about this is that one thing we do know, for certain, can be damaging to a fetus is for the mother to have a fever. Acetaminophen reduces fevers. This is yet another case of an anti-vaxx nutjob thinking the cure is worse than the disease.

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  • [–] 83 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Paracetamol was first made in the 1800's though.

    Or are they just blaming a certain brand?

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  • [+] [S] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    The argument would be that autism is on the rise, not that it's a new thing. I'm assuming this crowd understands the "rise" is from finer-tuned diagnoses. Hell, there may be another factor, but money says it ain't Tylenol.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    Literally no Americans know what paracetamol is. Randomly ask anyone.

    Americans know brand names: Tylenol, Advil, Prilosec, Ambien.

    I’ll bet you could survey Americans and 999/1000 have never even have heard the word paracetamol. Or zolpidem, and slightly less often, omeprazole (though that one may be increasing due to the general state of things and subsequent need for prescriptions). Most won’t have heard anything but the brand names, and the brand names have been drilled into their heads by way of constant advertising.

    US brands have spend stupid amounts of money making sure people think of their propriety name instead of the real name of any drug.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Americans know "paracetamol" about as well as you apparently know "acetaminophen".

    They are the same compound.

    "Paracetamol" is the generic term used in Europe and Australia. "Acetaminophen" is the generic term commonly used in the Americas.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Both are slightly less clunky words created from the corpse of "N-acetyl-para-aminophenol"

    "Acetaminophen" takes the "acet" from "acetyl" and "aminophen" from "aminophenol".

    "Paracetamol" takes the "para" part, and then a few other random letters that don't really make sence. "cet" from "acetyl", and maybe "am" from the start of "amphenol" with the "ol" ending from the same word, ignoring that it ends in "nol"?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Paracetamol" takes the "para" part, and then a few other random letters that don't really make sence.

    Because it actually comes from a different chemical name for the same compound: para-acetylaminophenol

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Whichever version you use, it doesn't really make sense. The para part, sure. But "cetamol"? I guess you can can smush two of the words together and go from "para-acet" to "paracet". But, the "amol" ending? It seems to be borrowing the "am" from amino, and the "ol" from the end. But, that's a weird set of letters to borrow, and weird to not borrow the full "amin" from amino and not borrow the full "enol" from phenol.

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  • [–] 46 points 1 year ago

    Careful! Cancer was around before cigarettes or dioxin. Not that I don't think RFK is full of shit, but sometimes it's best to ignore bad arguments when there are so many good ones to be made.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Just because something already exists, doesn't mean it can't be also caused by something else. Like canser. It already exists. But smoking can cause it too.

    Next to that, it's paracetamol. It predates the discovery/naming of autism. It's already proven not to be the cause by other studies. Of course these studies could have been wrong, but I highly doubt that.

    So this statement is incorrect. Doesn't change the fact that I don't believe a word of either Trump or RFK. I still believe science and I still don't believe pseudoscience.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

    There's proof it's NOT caused by paracetamol? Pretty sure that's not how science works. You'd have to say there's no evidence it's caused by paracetamol

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That’s not modern science works. The “modern” scientific method (as in post-medieval) requires you to have a positive hypothesis that you can test (as in disprove). Starting with a negative statement doesn’t work in this system. Maybe here we are witnessing the birth of a new scientific system or this administration is so backwards that they rewinding all the way to pre-Galilean times.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    See the other comments. Someone linked to the studies stating there was no link found.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Finding no link isn't proof that no link exists. Only that none has been found. It's evidence, not proof.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That's how science works in general. Stuff is proven until proven otherwise.

    I just don't believe the pseudoscience claims from RFK or Trump.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Their announcement is bullshit for sure. There's no evidence to support their claims, and lots to support the contrary.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yeah but that's the thing nowadays: there's an attack on facts, proof and science in general. It's all about feelings and the loudness of the biggest screamers (populist politicians and extremist influencers). Scientists and fact checkers are portrayed as dumb, incompetent, terrorists, etc. These arguments are the weakest possible in a discussion but somehow people just follow these idiots and reject science and facts.

    The same happened when the church felt threatened by science during the discovery of the round earth traveling around the sun. The general public was riled up against science, even forcing academia to practice in secret.

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  • [–] 66 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Listen I know the RFK claim is nonsense but that doesn't excuse faulty logic. This is like saying cancer existed before X so X can't be a carcinogen.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Til autism was once understood as being the same as schizophrenia.

    Quite interesting how the concept of neurodivergence is almost doing the opposite with respect to individuals who overlap on multiple neurological labels. Except it celebrates the individual uniqueness of their mind, needs, strenghts and challenges rather then generalising to find the one pill to sell to all.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    I am autistic and I can understand it. When stressed, autistic people can exhibit disordered thinking or just naturally pick up on relationships and patterns that neurotypical people do not. We can also have the appearance of unpredictable volatility when facing things like burnout or abuse.

    Especially in an era where mental health treatment was really just sending you you to a prison.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Eh, I wouldn't immediately believe that. OP is playing fast and loose with their facts in this post. The first diagnosis of autism wasn't until 1943, so how did they differentiate it from schizophrenia in 1911?

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    There's a 100% correlation between a child coming into direct physical contact with their family doctor and that same child later being diagnosed with autism. Show me an example where this was not the case. Family doctors are sporing autismomes like a tickled mushroom and no one is talking about it.

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  • [–] 155 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    puts on logic glasses

    Oh look, another brilliant mind discovered that autism was identified before Tylenol existed, so obviously Tylenol can't cause autism. That's like saying cancer existed before radiation therapy, therefore radiation can't cause cancer. Peak necessity/sufficiency confusion right here - apparently conditions can only have one cause and medical recognition equals temporal origin.

    But hey, let's ignore that Swedish study of 2.5 million kids that found zero causal link when they actually controlled for confounding variables using sibling comparisons. Or those other high-quality studies that show the association completely disappears once you account for genetics and family environment. Who needs actual science when you have timeline gotchas?

    Meanwhile pregnant women might avoid the safest pain reliever available because some politician decided to manufacture outrage for political points. But at least someone gets to feel intellectually superior about their logical fallacy meme.

    🐱

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    You’re not wrong. But my guess is that “autism predates Tylenol” is probably gonna convince more people than “large controlled study done by the Swiss”. People are generally really ignorant

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    How on earth is that a thing? Do Americans just read the first two letters of a name and then give up?

    I mean, as an Austrian I get the confusion between Austria and AustrALia (emphasis added so that Americans can also see it), but SwEDEN vs SwISS is just wild.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I knew someone who lived in Switzerland. Switzerland isn't part of the EU, Sweden is. That meant that a lot of online shopping sites for EU residents would ship to Sweden but not Switzerland. So, he would ship to his address, but in Sweden. The nice folks in Sweden would say "gosh, another person once again confused Sweden and Switzerland" and forward the shipment to Switzerland, and he'd get his stuff.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    Hmm, i don't like your tone, but you are correct. ASD has a heritability greater than 80% which is higher than blood pressure and the same as human height. It's a genetic disorder.

    Also, when was it necessary to differentiate ASD from schizophrenia? The age of onset of schizophrenia is around 18-21 and autism is present practically from birth (apparent 1-3 years). I think OP is wrongly interpreting the Kraepelinian dichotomy which is about bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    @meowmeowbeanz@sopuli.xyz is totally right. The meme is based on a wrong premise.

    It claims that Autism was a known thing in 1911 (true), and that Tylenol was created in 1955 (misleading since the active ingredient, Paracetamol was created in 1878 and was in wide use before the brand Tylenol was created). Then it implies that the argument is that Tylenol is the only cause of Autism and then poses that as a contradiction.

    Logically, that's like claiming that some People died in 1700, and that the Ford Model T was only created in 1908 and then claiming that thus it's nonsense that cars can kill people.

    On the one hand it ignores that the active ingredient of the medication was in use far earlier than that one random brand showing up, and on the other hand it claims that the argument with Tylenol and Autism is that every single case of Autism happens due to Tylenol, which pretty much nobody is claiming.

    So the meme is just wrong on many levels.


    So instead of making up and disproving a lie, why not use actual science? There's overwhelming scientific evidence that Paracetamol has no effect on Autism.

    One might say that this doesn't really sway those who choose to ignore science in favour of their own gut feelings, but on the other hand, does a fallacious lie sway them?

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Well, the OP's argument becomes nil when it's based on such a basic fallacy, I mean c'mon. Temporal precedence ≠ causal impossibility.

    And since autism-as-symptom existed in 1911 but autism-as-disorder wasn't differentiated until later, the meme's temporal logic becomes even more meaningless. lol

    🐱🐱🐱🐱

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Meanwhile pregnant women might avoid the safest pain reliever available

    More importantly, the safest fever-reducer available. Fevers are actually known to be damaging to fetuses, unlike acetaminophen.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I only buy generic brand medications, so my kids are at risk of generic brand autism. Is this going to be a signifier of a low income upbringing when they reach adulthood?

    Should I switch to name brand Tylenol for their future?

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago

    it's a bad argument, but the people claiming that Tylenol causes autism aren't using logic to make their claim either.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Tylenol is just a paracetamol brand name in the US. TIL

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Neben Acetylsalicylsäure, Ibuprofen oder Diclofenac ist Paracetamol einer der häufigsten Wirkstoffe in Präparaten, die gegen Fieber und Schmerzen eingesetzt werden. Paracetamol wirkt im Gegensatz zu diesen nicht entzündungshemmend.

    Ah.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That settles it, then. Obviously, autism was caused by time travel.

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  • [–] 65 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Not to defend RFK, but this argument is dumb.

    People from everywhere it doesn't natively grow developed cancer long before they had access to tobacco. That doesn't prove tobacco use doesn't cause cancer, it just means it isn't the only potential cause.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    That's because cancer is a category of diseases, not a single one. Specific types of cancer that are caused by smoking are caused by smoking (there is afaik 12 of those, and some are associated with prolonged inhalation of any smoke, and some are only tabaco-related, but it doesn't matter)

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The point is, the claim is that Tylenol is "linked to" autism.

    This post is rebutting the claim that Tylenol "causes" autism.

    Thats a classic straw man argument.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    No, the post is claiming that because Tylenol was discovered after autism, it can't be a cause of it. That's flawed logic: it's true that autism must also have some other cause, but it's very possible in principle for things to have multiple causes, so the timeline argument proves nothing.

    That's not to say that Dipshit McBrainworm's claim has any sort of merit whatsoever, mind you. It's just that this argument is defective.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Are there any cancers that were found to be "caused by smoking" before 2003?

    Of those, are there any that have subsequently also been found to be "caused by" vaping (such as the tobacco-related ones)?

    If so, then it means vaping is indeed a cause (as opposed to the singular cause) of those cancers even though they were around before vaping was invented (in 2003).

    That's why this meme is bad.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If you focus on nicotine specifically, nicotine causes specific type of cancer. Change in the delivery mechanism would cause fluctuations in dosage, but it doesn't matter in this case (we ignore other types of cancer not to bog down the analogy).
    If one would argue that Tylenol causes autism, two things should be shown, the delivery mechanism of Tylenol before it was invented/isolated, to explain pre-Tylenol cases of autism, and/or specific uptick in autism when it was started to be used as medication.
    It's possible that the meme is good you just didn't get it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Or that Tylenol is able to aggravate a pathway that results in development of autism. This would move it from "Tylenol causes autism" to "maternal use of Tylenol may be a trigger for development of autism in utero". The latter statement would also require providing compelling that autism (or a condition currently indistinguishable from it) is either not genetic as currently suspected or is like schizophrenia in requiring both a genetic predisposition and a "trigger".

    Now, that's quite a bit to have to prove and there's no way in hell RFK Jr of all people managed to figure it out in 6 fucking months. So yeah if China or the EU starts saying this maybe it's worth considering the possibility, otherwise it's just another unsubstantiated claim that unfortunately means pregnant people are going to be recommended it's not worth risking

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2817406

    Findings In this population-based study, models without sibling controls identified marginally increased risks of autism and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) associated with acetaminophen use during pregnancy. However, analyses of matched full sibling pairs found no evidence of increased risk of autism (hazard ratio, 0.98), ADHD (hazard ratio, 0.98), or intellectual disability (hazard ratio, 1.01) associated with acetaminophen use.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I can't wait to post this on social media. No one is going to respond and actually read a medical journal article but Bravo for this. Very interesting and telling. These people will take anything and run with it hardcore for an agenda my god lol

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