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[–] 52 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (5 children)

The world would be dramatically better if about 10,000 specific people died

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  • [–] [S] 150 points 5 days ago (10 children)

    The AI gets to accuse you based on a bad guess, while you have to file paperwork and surrender more personal data to prove you didn’t steal a pack of vitamins. »Innocent until proven guilty« is now a premium feature.

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  • [–] 35 points 5 days ago (8 children)

    if you’re a billionaire you can be proven guilty and still be considered innocent

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  • [–] 11 points 4 days ago (6 children)

    A false accusation of theft is literally Libel.

    So anybody rich enough or who is a Lawyer or Judge can easilly take them to Court for it and win compensation.

    As with most nasty things, it's only done to the riff-raff, not the upper-middle and upper class.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 days ago (5 children)

    A false accusation of theft is literally Libel

    Not if it's only to you. Defamation happens when an accusation is published such that it could damage your reputation.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (4 children)

    True. If nobody else is told about it it's not Libel.

    So they would have to stop that person not in public or very very discretely, only one person could be involved from their side (otherwise somebody would be telling somebody else) and the person stopped could simply refuse and walk away because if they called the authorities by telling them that person had stolen something, it would be Libel (or worse - I believe it's also a crime to falsely report a crime).

    Ultimately, it boils down to had they witnessed it or not - had they seen it on camera then they did, had they just blindly relied on the AI flagging it without actually checking it, then they did not, and "the AI told us so" wouldn't fly in Court if they didn't cross-checked the AI system and it turned out they had made an accusation of a Crime against somebody to somebody else or the authorities without actually checking it.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (3 children)

    if they called the authorities by telling them that person had stolen something, it would be Libel

    It would not. I resent that. Libel is written. In speech, it's slander.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    Yeah, English is not my first language and I kept feeling there was another word in English for the spoken form only, same as in my own language, but couldn't remember it.

    So cheers for that!

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (1 child)

    Oh sorry. In case you didn't pick up on it, I was making a reference. Not supposed to be taken too seriously! (Though it was technically accurate.)

    Anyway, in reality in the modern world, there's usually no difference. The general term for both print and spoken, and the term used in most English-language legal systems today, is defamation.

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  • [–] 45 points 5 days ago (3 children)

    This will ultimately be the death of retail stores.

    Half the reason anyone wants to go to a store in 2026 is to have a good time shopping in person. If going to the store leads to any chance of a shitty experience? Fuck it dude, I'll just order online like everyone else I suppose.

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  • [–] 40 points 4 days ago (3 children)

    That isn't kafkaesque, that's just authoritarian.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    To be Kafkaesque is to not know what you are accused of and/or to have no real mechanism to defend the accusations. The Kafkaesque part is the private network of 'justice' that makes judgements which impact someone's access to basics like food based on an opaque algorithm with no recourse.

    These private systems are worst when they are networks across multiple stores - you could imagine a future where, if left to the devices of late stage capitalism (i.e. not effectively regulated), it could become virtually impossible to buy food and other essentials once you are on a privately held denylist that retailers pay to access, where those on the list have no insights into how they got on the list nor any mechanism to correct any inaccuracies that unfairly led to them being on the list.

    TL;DR: I think Kafkaesque is correct here.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago

    This is the thing, the AI just doesn't work. That's a faulty system, not a system that works as intended. Now if you wanna talk about the legal system they have to enter to prove thier innocence, well just to start the argument of innocence you have to pay. Depending on the amount of money you spend also affects the amount of innocent you are.

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  • [–] 34 points 5 days ago (6 children)

    When I worked at Lowe's they could tell the instant shoplifters pulled into the parking lot. They even had nicknames for the repeat offenders.

    "Heads up, Dumb and Dumber just pulled in, no doubt headed for lumber."

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  • [–] 3 points 5 days ago (5 children)

    How does one shoplift lumber?

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  • [–] 52 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (6 children)

    What is wild about all this is looking back to the old social contract and how it basically made this fobitted forbidden.

    The best example is the movie minority report in which they had a fool proof way to 100% of the time predict the future.

    I won’t spoil the movie, but the whole premise was that even if there was one instance of it making a mistake, and a innocent person was put on ice by mistake, then the whole thing had to be shut down.

    And in today’s reality: all of big tech’s new tools make mistakes constantly, sometimes more than getting things right, and it’s still full steam ahead on the rollout.

    MFW dystopian movies were too optimistic

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    kill the fuckers in charge or you're rolling the dice chamber every day.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago* (1 child)

    Let me just get my sniper rifle and hop on my plane and go to that secret island that they may or may not be staying at at that moment and evade their personal army and bodyguards and take out one of the bastards before his goons kill me. I have high hopes for success.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 days ago*

    fobitted

    I'm sure this is a typo of some kind, but I can't for the life of me work out what it was."Predicted"? "Foretold"? I'm sure I'm being dense and just missing something obvious, but I'd love to hear what.

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  • [–] 24 points 5 days ago (8 children)

    You write just one book about a labyrinthine bureacracy and people use your name to curse organisational dysfunction forever.

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  • [–] 16 points 5 days ago* (7 children)

    A situations like this makes me use a form of Malapropism one would expect of a Dickensian society to bring about almost Orwellian situation. Makes you wonder when someone will use Chekhov’s Gun before it all gets Bowdlerized. Alas this Machiavellian paragraph is reminiscent of a Lovecraftian creature.

    But seriously, that paragraph above reads like the scene in Blackadder when they meet the writer of the Dictionary.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 days ago (6 children)

    Poor Machiavelli too. Everyone goes on about how he faked his death and “dark triad” traits, and he was just some bloke taking the piss out of the government.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 days ago* (5 children)

    I think that guy might have been trolling. He was imprisoned by the Medici family, amd then ended up writing a book to give advice to the princes? I think it could have been intentionally bad advice, especially after reading Sun Tsu.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 days ago*

    I'm actually wandering if what he wrote in his book wasn't exactly what the Prince already did.

    Because that sounds just like the greatest way to arse kiss a powerful person without being too crude and obvious, in order to get yourself a rich patron.

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  • [–] 43 points 5 days ago (10 children)

    Self Checkouts are not even self checkout anymore. You go up and scan your stuff then 2 times out of 3 someone has to come over and approve that you scanned everything. At that point just open the normal lanes back up

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  • [–] 16 points 5 days ago (8 children)

    I literally stopped shopping at Kroger over this. If you're gonna accuse me of stealing every third item I scan because I use a reusable shopping bag instead of the single-use plastic ones, you aren't getting my business.

    I think the only one more over it than me was the poor associate who had to keep signing in to watch videos of me scanning stuff.

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  • [–] 27 points 4 days ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago* (2 children)

    Yoink!

    Do you guys have the same shit as us by the way where they force you to scan your receipt to exit the store or the doors won't open? That's illegal by the way, but neither the store nor the customers care, they all go bleeping their fucking receipts like little lemmings, even when the doors are open. People think it's mandatory, so they got trained to do it.

    I have had several runins with staff and security over this, and once it gets to security, sec just tells them to open the doors because they are not allowed to keep people from leaving, receipt or not.

    I'm half in a mind to push this and sue for unlawful detention, I think there is a very solid case to be made.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago

    Oh interesting. That wasn't a thing where I used to live, but I just moved to a new country where it is. I'm very much not sure of the legality of things here yet, though. Ugh, hate the thought of being trained like that.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    It's so annoying. I'll scan something big and the computer is OUT LOUD saying at me "BAG YOUR ITEM" like NO! I DONT WANT TO!

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago

    The grocery store nearest my house (QFC, a slightly nicer Kroger-owned regional chain) has tiny trays for the bagging area. Anything more bulky than a gallon of milk and a bag of apples turns into a weird game of Jenga.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago

    The Kroger I used to be close to had the carts where the wheel would lock at the door if the system thought you were stealing something which it did every other time I went causing me to stumble or bang my shin against the cart and look like a fool stopped in the middle of the doorway while waiting for an employee to come unlock my cart. I stopped going after I realized the whole experience of going to Kroger actually kinda just ruined my day and pissed me off. I typically did a bulk of my shopping right after my paycheck so id have a lot of stuff and I was forced to go throigh self checkout 90% of the time because they sometimes didnt have any open normal checkout lanes. Their aisles were also fairly claustrophobic and prices werent even really much lower. Makes me wonder if it would actually be cheaper to let people steal over paying for all the bullshit non working security systems

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago*

    opening more lanes very obviously makes things better for customers but that's not even remotely the goal. self-checkout lets them slash their labor costs and give out more executive bonuses by just paying one employee to manage the entire self-checkout section. they wouldn't get to keep that money if they opened up more lanes and paid an employee per lane. so now every store has 20 lanes with at most three lanes open, and only if it's really slammed.

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  • [–] 19 points 5 days ago

    This is a great way for people to lesen how this technology can be used negatively. Get the backlash early before it has completely infected everything.

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  • [–] 18 points 5 days ago

    Someone must have been telling lies about Some slop machine must have misidentified Josef K., he knew he had done nothing wrong but, one morning, he was arrested.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 days ago (3 children)

    its infuriating that law enforcement is this incompetent. to arrest innocent people is unacceptable. i hope they all get hundreds of millions each. these people cops need to learn lessons and get educated on the law so they dont enforce the laws wrong, like in this case

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  • [–] 5 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Oh, not just arrest. I don’t know if it was Ai or not, but the 1y/o who was recently mudered by police was in the car with people falsely accused of shoplifting. The family was told by the courts that it was a “reasonable use of force”.

    Wild that largely untrained cops can dole out the death penalty to a bystander for a crime that has little-to-no inherent urgency and would never carry a sentence even a fraction as severe.

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  • [–] 15 points 5 days ago*

    I worked at my local Goodwill (they're split up by region). We kept a close eye on known shoplifters, but we couldn't say anything and even my boss couldn't say anything unless he literally saw them conceal the object then walk out of the store and never broke eye contact. They said the store could get sued if we stopped them and they had ditched the contraband in the moment we looked away.

    I don't see why the stores discussed here should be treated differently. Someone needs to sue these surveillance stores until they stop automating false accusations.

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  • [–] 47 points 5 days ago (25 children)

    Can we actually see the reports? Not saying it can't happen but using AI in articles creates lots of views. Is "Home Bargin" the only store doing this? Is it only in the UK? This is really poor reporting here.

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  • [–] 33 points 5 days ago (22 children)

    Anecdotally my wife keeps getting flagged by Walmart and they have to come watch her bag at the self checkout every time she uses one. So far no where else, just there. She uses them many other places, so she’s not acting suspicious or using it wrong.

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  • [–] 47 points 5 days ago (7 children)

    Please stop shopping at places that treat you as if you are a criminal. Self checkouts are already customer hostile but essentially being treated as a potential shoplifter for using one should cause you to take your business elsewhere if at all feasible.

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  • [–] 37 points 5 days ago (6 children)

    I don’t know their specific situation, but Walmart is often the only viable option for many lower population areas or late-night needs. A large part of Walmart’s expansion strategy is moving into a small town, then under-pricing all of their stuff at a loss. They keep selling things at a loss until all of the other local shops close, because they can’t compete with Walmart’s lower prices. Then once all of the local competition is run out of town, Walmart jacks their prices up because they’re the only option in town.

    They’re also often one of the only grocers that stays open late. This means they’re often the only viable option for third-shift workers, because the alternative would be waking up at their equivalent of 2AM to go grocery shopping.

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  • [–] 11 points 5 days ago (3 children)

    I dont know how much this is actually happening now a days but seems much harder to do when the prices are shown online and you can change pickup location at will. Maybe 20 years ago it was more true.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Are Walmarts open at 2AM again? Most of them around here stopped doing 24 hours during COVID and never went back.

    Fast Food too.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago

    I don't shop at Walmart, but last I looked they closed at 9 or 10. The grocery store closest to me is open til 11. It's way more convenient to just go there, even if it is a little more expensive. I miss stores being open 24-7.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 days ago (10 children)

    Walmart has extremely good facial recognition software, which I assume now has been taken over by AI.

    I also get my reusable bags checked at Walmart (I rarely shop there anymore),they will even make me take out all the empty ones in my larger bag to prove I'm not stealing. I figured it was strore policy.

    I do know retail theft has skyrocketed the last 5 or so years. I have read stores getting rid of self checkouts because of this.

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  • [–] 17 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    I have read stores getting rid of self checkouts because of this.

    That's a good result if true. They'll have to keep employing humans.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

    I wouldn’t get excited, I work in that tech space and at least in the Us and Canada strategies of major grocery stores is increasing self checkout options as well as AI surveillance. If the bubble pops that may change but it’s not deterring anything from the c-suite this far

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  • [–] 11 points 5 days ago (3 children)

    I do know retail theft has skyrocketed the last 5 or so years.

    Nobody should give any fucks whatsoever as long as it continues to be dwarfed by wage theft.

    Also, there is zero fucking reason to let Walmart check your receipt or your bags. With a warehouse club like Costco it's written into the membership agreement, but a normal store has no authority to hold you, especially without probable cause. Exercise your goddamn rights, people!

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago

    Costco doesn't do a real check either. They just look at your cart and swipe your receipt with a highlighter. The only thing I can imagine they are actually checking is approximate number of items.

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  • [–] -4 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    You have no 4th amendment rights against a private party. Depending on your state, the store can detain you until police arrive if they suspect you of shoplifting.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 days ago

    The key phrase there is "if they suspect you of shoplifting" which means they need to have actual fucking evidence and merely refusing their rent-a-gestapo bullshit doesn't cut it.

    Otherwise, they're the ones committing the crime of false imprisonment.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 days ago* (1 child)

    I do know retail theft has skyrocketed the last 5 or so years.

    Yeah the stores did that.

    They knew self-checkout would be shoplifter heaven but they calculated that they saved more by cutting jobs. Then they cry for insurance and government payouts by pretending there is an epidemic of crime.

    And now they're cutting back on the self-checkouts while not bothering to hire people back to work the registers lol. The lines are getting longer and longer.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago

    And now they're cutting back on the self-checkouts while not bothering to hire people back to work the registers lol. The lines are getting longer and longer.

    Of course, how else to drive you to use their pickup/delivery service for a premium, or to order online where they can really gouge you individually with surveillance pricing.

    They were never going to do surveillance pricing in store, that’s too hard, but why have useable stores at all? Throw everything in locked cases, staff minimally, ignore complaints, profit (this quarter).

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago

    I hope not here as self checkout was a massive improvement for being able to check out with a few items where I live. They also have people assigned and present at slef checkout and more staff roaming the store to answer questions and keep stuff organized compared to before self checkout was a thing. I get help finding things and out the door faster.

    Sucks that they are doing a shitty implementation other placss.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 days ago

    CCTV cameras, of which London is completely covered by last I heard, over two decades back, are notorious for misidentifying people with facial recognition before this llm bs even came out.

    Especially minorities, there was a dude in detroit, black dude, got falsley flagged by the system for a murder, they arrested him, ignoring his ironclad alibi, and tried to make the charges stick for some time, knowing he was innocent. That was a number of years back, but not a one off at all.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 days ago

    Imagine being hunted by the police because someone didn't run an update or is running the AI software through some shitty, 180p security camera.

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  • [–] 13 points 5 days ago* (2 children)

    Kafkaesque nightmares

    I gotta read something besides The Metamorphasis because all I associate with that phrase is physical body horror of becoming a bug. Somehow I don't think that's what they meant here.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 days ago

    Snitches get glitches.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 days ago

    The USA sixth amendment has the confrontation clause, which gives the accused the right to face their accuser in court. If this were to happen here then we shouldn't have to play their games and hand over more of our personal information. We should be able to take the company to court for slander - they have accused us of a crime - and we should demand they present that evidence in court to justify that slander. Either they submit the evidence - allowing the accused to disprove it - or they don't present the evidence and the accused wins their slander case against the company.

    That's how it should work. I don't know WTF the judicial system is going to do with AI lobbing criminal accusations at people. Maybe we end up living in a perpetual panopticon where AI is studying us every second of every day looking for some way to charge us with a crime.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 days ago
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