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[–] 131 points 1 week ago* (9 children)

Today I learned that I, with a BS degree and a decade of experience in IT work, am not making the minimum wage my dad made as a teenage high school dropout.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 week ago* (1 child)

    Have you tried having a useful degree instead of a bs one?

    ^/s^

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    My degree is useless in the sense that I realized it was wrong for me as a career path very close to graduation. It would also have paid badly. I got extremely lucky landing a random ass job in a very physically demanding role. It fucked up my body. I got lucky transitioning out of that role into an entirely different but decent field closer to family. (A couple "placeholder" jobs in there for about 2 years just to maintain insurance for my wife.)

    I don't know that a different degree would have mattered for me. Hindsight being what it is; I do think pursuing electrical engineering and the trade would have made the most sense for me. but I didnt even know i had any aptitude for that, just never exposed to it. Pushing 40 (weird to say.) So the days of weathering an apprenticeship are behind me from a temperment perspective.

    The first job covered housing so I basically paid off student loans immediately, funded my IRAs for a few years, one year with a loan (dont ever do this, btw.) This let me also live off of my "base 40" and save 65 hours of overtime per week for 7.5 years.

    I say all of this to get to my point; We bought a house last year and the amount of effort, toil, literally body breaking work that I did to get here is not the American Dream I bought into as a young man.

    All of this considered, luck should not be the key factor of success in a functioning, equitable society.

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  • [+] -27 points 1 week ago (6 children)

    Why are you making minimum wage with a degree and ten years experience?! Or are you comparing pay rates and housing? If so, I see....

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  • [–] 56 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    I think they are saying they make less than $66 an hour, the equivalent of which their dad was making

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    No, didn't you read? Regardless of the cost problems, their degree is either bullshit or in the field of bullshit.

    Apparently bull semen can be valuable (I guess their degree could be on that topic as well), but I've never heard that other excretions are worth much.

    Jokes aside, I make a lot more than my dad ever did annually. With his income, he owned a home outright, supported up to four kids and a wife, and had fairly extensive savings. I have one kid, one wife, and one home. I'm very fortunate and grateful to have what I have, but it is unlikely I'll ever match his success.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    It’s not really matching his success, it’s matching his pay. Very different things, especially as we know that people today are vastly more productive than in years past.

    Just because someone is stealing your work doesn’t mean you didn’t succeed at it(and deserve fair pay).

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago

    I see your point, but in this case I wasn't considering it a personal failure. I am having difficulty providing for my family; being able to do so would be my success, in which I could approach his.

    I'm not being intentionally self deprecating, nor am I (currently) ashamed, but I do appreciate the reassurance you offered.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago

    I've commented this before elsewhere, but I also believe I make more than my dad. He raised a family on one income, paid off a house in 15 years, sold it, took all the money and bought a house twice the size with a very small mortgage that is probably paid off by now.

    I'm living paycheck to paycheck renting a one bedroom apartment with me and my two cats and my dad has told me if he had to pay what I do for housing he couldn't afford to survive.

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  • [–] 91 points 1 week ago

    Yep, the 1% lost a lot of their workforce during the war. They needed to treat them right and give concessions. The 1% wants their fiefdom back and have been working on it every since.

    Think of it like if Apple, Microsoft and Amazon didn't have agreements to keep wages down and it was actually competitive, they would offer bonuses and paid vacation, etc. to even medium employees to keep them.

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  • [–] 48 points 1 week ago (8 children)

    This a good post. People love to argue about current wages and the like, but it is buying power that is the issue.

    In the early to mid 70s buying was the best it has ever been. One job could afford a house, car, and education.

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  • [–] 42 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Then in 1971 and onwards, productivity continued upwards, while purchasing power flatlined...

    Gee I wonder why we have so many Billionaires...

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    I'd say automation played a decent sized part in that as well. A massive chunk of those high paying jobs were factory work. A lot of those production type tasks were automated away, and the increased number of maintenance jobs required doesn't even come close to covering that loss of required factory workers.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    Increasing automation lowered the cost to produce goods. The people who owned the machines (capital) could have lowered prices, but they didn't. They used the lower wage cost to increase their own profits, then used those profits to buy more machines (increasing their capital).

    Now we have a small number of people who own a large amount of capital, raising prices on everything to keep increasing their profits, and refusing to help the people who used to do the now automated work, or raise wages for the existing workers. The shareholders don't care about working conditions or product quality, they only care about getting a bigger return on investment (by a bigger margin) than the previous year.

    "Sustainable growth" (actually exponential growth) is literally impossible to sustain, yet almost every major company's shareholders demand it. What happens when your economy is reliant on the impossible?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Wages are a huge part of buying power.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    But focusing on the numeric wage causes people to lose sight of the issue.

    Like it was posted minimum wage should be well over 45.00 an hour. Meaning people that make 45.00 should be making 400.00, if that was true we would be equivalent to the buying power of the 70s.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago* (1 child)

    Increasing minimum wage is literally the easiest step of the many things that affect buying power. Dismissing it is like downplaying doctors washing their hands.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Whatever happened to "source?"

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  • [–] 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    You can go back as far as you'd like to; if memory serves 1950s was our best time re salaries and purchasing power.

    Here's a 20% drop since 2010 straight from the horse's mouth.

    https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/purchasing-power-constant-dollars.htm

    Not sure about this one I haven't checked sources on it, this is just a quick search for you because you're a good kid

    https://www.macrotrends.net/4534/cpi-purchasing-power-of-the-dollar

    There's zero debate, we are fucked

    Recall that in addition to this drop in purchasing power, we are taxed in countless new ways that we never had to worry about decades ago. In my state we pay a tax on toilet paper. We have to pay the state to take a shit.

    The solution is obvious. Let's print more money!

    p.s. a good way to spot check the economy is to check the price of gold. My gold is now worth 400% of what it cost years ago. So... it's not actually worth more than it was... it's just our dollar has lost that much value.

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  • [–] 61 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (9 children)

    My parents bought a house in the 90's and after they bought it, they realized they couldn't really afford the mortgage.

    As a comparison, my wife and I tried buying a house 3 years ago. We had around $3,000 left in our budget after ALL our expenses was paid, and we got rejected in 3 banks before we got a loan.

    Our rent was $1,500 / month. Our mortgage is $1,000 / month. We have more money after expenses living in our house compared to the place we lived before.

    They make it really damn difficult to buy a house, even when you have the money.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 week ago (7 children)

    Some of that is due to the 2008 bullshittery. Bank are trying not to get caught holding the bag again when mortgage rates rise and people end up underwater.

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  • [–] 42 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    Banks lending infinite money to AI companies: Yes sir I'll hold that bag no problem sir, the government will protect me

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  • [–] 8 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Well yeah, it was a housing crisis in '08, not an AI crisis. Totally different scenario. Just like how no one could have known sub prime mortgages would be a problem then, there's no telling what will happen after throwing everyone's 401ks into AI.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago

    That's just the thing. Everyone (in the industry) knew the sub prime market was going to be a problem. My sister worked for a company that specialized in mortgages and said in the early 2000s that the sub prime market was predatory, was lending too much to people that were never in a position to repay the load, and that the whole system was going to crash.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago* (1 child)

    They added even more regulation more recently.

    We met all the criteria except the positive net wealth due to student loans and in our budget we would have been net positive within 5 years, but 3 banks didn't believe that. We only got the loan because we had 15 % in down payment.

    These are the current criteria:

    Down payment - minimum 5% of the purchase price from your own funds

    Debt factor - total debt must not exceed roughly 4–5× household income before tax

    Interest stress test - your budget must handle rates of at least 4.5%

    Positive net wealth - either upfront, or a repayment plan making it positive within max. 5 years

    Minimum disposable income - $750 - $1050/month left after all expenses, and each child adds $400-500 to that amount.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago

    Holy fuck when I bought my house just 5 years ago it was just the debt to income ratio and down payment I had to worry about. We probably wouldn't have qualified for our current home loan back then if these requirements were active

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    The mistake was talking to banks. We went to a mortgage broker. They get quotes from like 500 banks and tell you immediately the chances with each one. Sometimes banks reject you for random reasons, like their own exposure to the real estate market.

    Plus we got 0.3% lower interest rate than the best offer we got directly from a bank. And the broker handled all the paperwork and communication with the bank.

    Of course they got their commission, but if they save us money and effort, good for them, well deserved.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    I only have a house because I inherited it from my dad, and my dad only had a house because he inherited it from my late grandpa, and he only had a house because he bought a farmland for some cows back when this was barely a town

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  • [–] 12 points 1 week ago

    Only reason I even have a house is because of inheritance. Only reason I have money to spend in this shit economy where I'm coming up on two years of unemployment is because of inheritance.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 week ago

    Voting is important kids.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 week ago

    No, but let's look at it more positively: Cease eating entirely, and the problem will become immaterial soon enough.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    There's plenty of money to go around, and we could easily pay that minimum wage, but gotta make those 1%ers richer.

    Who needs a functioning society when you can just have a couple trillionaires instead..

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  • [–] 20 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    We can’t afford the luxury of corrupt politicians, billionaires and shareholders anymore. We need a revolution

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  • [+] -14 points 1 week ago* (4 children)

    This lazy ass ruined generation cannot even get a job or a relationship. You think starting a revolution is more or less difficult than that?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    As a genZer, we can't get the jobs we were tertiary educated for due to bots and excessive experience standards for entry-level positions, and the relationships thing is a misconception, since everyone in general is more isolated these days, so naturally every generation is facing the harsh reality that getting into a relationship is more difficult than it used to.

    In a decade, I could easily say gen Alpha is a "lazy ass ruined generation", but getting your life settled and stable is difficult, especially in a day and age where you can easily dissociate from your surroundings and problems by indulging in the mind numbing infinite scroll of algorithmically chosen short form videos in your pocketable supercomputer.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    It's hard not to resent the boomers. We shouldn't, but it's hard.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago* (1 child)

    The reality is avocado on wheat toastwould save some people money in the long term (from doctors bills.) Fiber. Protein. A good monounsaturated fat that feeds your HDL (the “good” cholesterol.)

    Bonus, fiber creates a more full feeling, longer. That sense of satiation means less snacking and less feeling the need for more food consumption overall.

    Not bad for $0.40 in avocado and a slice of wheat bread.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    Chuck some diced tomato and a gooey egg and you have my attention. I've also just discovered picked onions which add some tang and crunch.

    I think the avocado toast meme originated when a rich millennial saw some other millennial at a Cafe and said you're not rich like me because you bought avocado toast

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Managed it when I was 35 in ‘21.

    This economy is shit.

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    [–] 17 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    American culture is fucked. I have a wife and two kids now, but I had to move to the UK for it. American media has the population so indoctrinated that you're unlikely to find any American stable enough to last any considerable amount of time in marriage. I'm at 5 years, now. If you aren't dealing with an algo-indoctrinated social media scroller, things are better

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  • [–] -2 points 1 week ago

    Bro had to outsource the means of reproduction to an island nation run by a shadowy cabal of mostly white dudes wearing funny outfits pulling the strings behind a figurehead monarchy the local culture is completely infatuated with. Basically just like every successful American business venture ever.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago (13 children)

    Like I have a house, but I dream of just living in a van or an RV.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (6 children)

    I never understood that dream as someone who lives in an area with real winters.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    You can insulate your stuff lol. Don't worry, I know what real winters are. -40 is a cakewalk for me. There's a lot of cool solutions now for that.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    Have any cool info or resources? Curious what inside temps are like and what is being used for heating.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    Kind of how you wear sleep wear and jeans (with the sleepwear lining lol). Overall the main thing is layering. Aluminum and insulation (can be a composition, even using cardboard between layers). Piss tanks and water tanks are to be inside instead of underneath unless you like piss Popsicles. Shit is best dealt--your on your own with that one lol. Heating is fun, I'd go for a wood or a gas system, they're like tiny boxes. The upside to gas systems is that they can be modded for wood gas.

    This is for climates.

    Otherwise it's all about AC lol

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (5 children)

    I think a lot of people who have never owned a home don't realize how much of a hassle it is.

    You don't even really get much equity out of it. If your houses value increases because of the market, so does all the other housing. All the money you have to spend on maintaining it just keeps from dropping in value.

    I know at least a half dozen people who have sold their house and gone back to renting.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago

    You don’t even really get much equity out of it. If your houses value increases because of the market, so does all the other housing.

    Wrong, so very wrong. First you get to keep 30-60% of your payment as principle, as opposed to rent where you keep 0. Second, the mortgage payment stays the same while rent goes up. Even during modest times this makes a noticeable impact but over the last 15 years the effect has been insane. Even just looking at equity your logic is wrong. Assume I buy a house worth $100k (to keep math easy) and pay $0 down. Now assume it doubles in value, the house is worth $200k and the mortgage is worth $100k. You just made $100k or in real growth close to $50k.

    If you plan on staying in one spot for 4+ years, buying is essentially always the correct move. Renting gives you the ability to move as you desire but you're paying in unseen ways.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    You don’t even really get much equity out of it

    You do get more than if you rent, and pay someone else's mortgage.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Except if you rent you don't have the same financial risk. A new roof or HVAC can easily be over $20k.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago*

    A new roof or HVAC

    But then you own a home with a new roof or Hvac. Not disputing these are very expensive (and that wages have been left in the dust by inflation for decades), but my parents didn't get HVAC until 3 years ago. And when you rent you only get a place to live, no equity.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    That's what I try to get across to my friends. It's like we're all getting older. If you can't get down and fix your sink drainage, don't get a house. It's one thing after another. I'm lucky I can do a lot of stuff myself.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago

    they want it to be 0, and most countries are just burying thier heads in the sand, as long as the rich are buying homes, they believe nothing bad will happen.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago
    [–] 4 points 1 week ago

    Trickle-down economics at work

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago

    Without earlier data it's impossible to know whether it was on the way up or down in 1950, but notice that the prosperity decline started sometime in the 1950s, right when the business world started handing out consumer credit like candy. They discovered that when given the chance, people were willing to spend money they didn't have. And with the shift to psychologically designed advertising that encouraged viewers to feel inadequate and insecure, people could be persuaded to spend money they didn't have on crap they didn't need. Over the next few generations people have gradually become accustomed to more and more debt and less and less financial security. We're like frogs in a slow cooker, suddenly realizing something smells like soup and it's us.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago

    I grew up in a town of 53k people. My sister lives there now and gets factory jobs that pay good. You can buy a house under 200k. No public transportation

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    you're supposed to skip the $500/mo in subscriptions that you're definitely paying, too

    /s

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago* (2 children)

    Mimimum wage in 1970 bought approximately 84 ounces of gold in Canada (roughly similar in the US.) Worth roughly $160 000 pre gold spike, and roughly double that after gold went crazy recently.

    Minimum

    Wage

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago* (1 child)

    What do you mean by minimum wage in 1970? Do you mean an entire year of 40-hour per week, minimum wage earnings, saved in a piggy bank?

    For reference, minimum wage in 1970 was $1.50 in Canada, and $1.60 in USA. 2026 equivalent would be around $13/hour.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    Gross earnings for the whole year bought in gold at that same year as a reference. An ounce of gold was $35 in the same time period. That's 89 ounces of gold at $1.5/hr working 40 hours a week.

    And yes, I know the US went off the gold standard which made the ratio of dollars to gold go haywire. What's interesting is whatever amount of gold it took to buy a house in 1970 is roughly what you needed to buy it before gold prices skyrocketed recently.

    A person in Canada making a 6-figure income today is earning a minimum of 17.55 ounces of gold in gross income

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    I’ve bought 5 homes in my life, 2 were 680k, one bought recently, you need to take home roughly 10k a month to afford a home at that price point. Closer to 100/ hr if you live in CA. Duel income is a must.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    The avocado toast of today is what a cheeseburger used to be (back in the day when it was well-made), just healthier. Boomers used to gorge themselves on ingredients that were much more expensive than fucking avocado and bread, they can stfu.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago

    No one who earned minimum wage was owning homes. There were far more ft salary jobs with opportunities for advancement when the Silent Generation and then the Boomers hit adulthood. Most of those jobs included training so it wasn't expected that everyone have a degree, masters, red seal and work experience before being hired.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago* (2 children)

    Married + home

    A house is easy - how much money do I need for a husband/wife?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    It's not about minimum wage. In 1950 US Federal minimum wage was $0.75/hr which is equal to $10.38/hr in 2026. $10.38 is lower than the current minimum wage in 29 states.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago

    You're right, it's about maximum worth.

    J. Paul Getty was the richest person in the 50s and he was worth about a billion dollars. Adjusted for inflation, thats about $14 billion now.

    Elon Musk is 70x richer than that.

    It isn't about how little the poor have, its about how much the rich hoard. And it always has been.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    This shows how young people don't want to marry anymore, smh.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    Well, about the same percentage is what you get paid of the value you provide to your employer.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    Logic makes their brains hurt. I think that’s why this type of ring doesn’t work on them.

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