I think it might be, there's no way Anakin would be able to buy proprietary hardware or software. So either he stole it, which his mother probably would not have allowed. Or he was able to scrap all the parts together because there is a template for humanoid protocol droids that we have also seen round Star Wars. And then the software itself either Anakin programed entirely himself, (which I know he's very smart, but even that seems a stretch) or he forked it. So it would make more sense that there was an open source catalog of protocol droid software. It also would make more sense due to the fact that a lot of people have droids, but they are not all created equal. I would think many of the droids on Coruscant were proprietary, while many of the droids in the outer rim are open source.

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[–] 80 points 1 month ago (23 children)

There are tons of protocol droids in universe. He cobbled scrap bots together. Clever, but he didn’t invent or program it. More like fancy legos

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  • [–] 44 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    Incorrect. Anakin programmed Threepio with the desire to serve his mother and with the six languages he spoke at the time.

    I would agree its more like modification than building from scratch, but he still had to get in there and noodle with everything. Programming was absolutely involved.

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  • [–] 42 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    I could see this being more like code blocks instead of actual software engineering. He probably found the different language modules and stuck them all in, and then did the equivalent of changes to a config file.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Edit config.txt

    "sentience=1"

    "British_sassy_butler=1"

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)
  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    He did not "program" 6 languages. Even if he was a super genius and spoke 6 languages, there's physically not enough time for Anakin to have typed the entire vocabulary and grammar of 1 language, much less 6.

    Imo, his "programming 6 languages" was plugging in 6 hardware language modules and running a command to load them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    On the one hand I can understand your meaning there.

    On the other, Threepio's famous boast of "six-million forms of communication" kind of precludes having room for six-million physical modules anywhere in his chassis.

    Enter: science-fantasy.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    It would have to be a large number of languages per module, but the universe was written in a 20th century kind of way where hardware is single-purpose.

    The actual answer is of course that Star Wars isn't believable, but ignoring that...

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    Sounds like copyright infringement to me

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    There is no copyright if you lack the star destroyers to enforce it. Or enough money to pay the headhunters.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

    Which people love in Star Wars, but then they want their real life to be, like, a slick, nonviolent, white-picket version of 1984 (edit: the novel). I get the psychology, but man, it's weird. A modest amount of risk seems worth it for, I guess, basic honesty.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    I don't understand. I didn't talk about a romanticized idea of ​​the past or a fictional universe. Help?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    No, but you did talk about the internal logic of the Star Wars universe, and people like Star Wars. So, I launched into a small rant. My bad!

    I meant 1984 the novel FWIW, where everything is really centrally controlled.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    I tried to depict my belief, that copyright is a artificial construct, which needs enforcement to be effective. If no one takes repressive measures in their hand, people will ignore copyright laws.

    I then took some plot devices and organisations from SW which represent repression and control to desribe that train of thought.

    I failed to see the connection between this and your response, since you replied to me. But if there is none, that's fine by me. :)

    PS: I think stories need to be larger than life to attract the audiences attention. It's the same recipe since ancient Greece's theatre works. Because people are people and they want what they always wanted.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    I'll admit I don't know tons about Star Wars, but isn't is a bit of a lawless universe? Not quite Mad Max, but, like, on it's way. Dotted with wretched hives of scum and villainy and all that.

    So, control is loose enough to allow things like breaking copyright law, and the tradeoff is there's a lot of less sympathetic crime going on. Basically, you can have freedom, or you can have order, and both are double edged swords. People seem to spend a lot of time asking for more order, because even in very safe Western society they're afraid. Maybe they shouldn't do that.

    PS: I think stories need to be larger than life to attract the audiences attention. It’s the same recipe since ancient Greece’s theatre works. Because people are people and they want what they always wanted.

    Yep. even if you take danger out of the equation,

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    He’s a slave boy in a scrap yard on some backwater shithole of a planet. Sue him

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  • [–] 54 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    Look at it from the perspective of 1977 or just before, when the scripts were written. I wasn't alive back then, but from what you read, it was a time when (real-world) devices came with manuals, schematics, block diagrams, and if they were missing you could probably find them or get them from the manufacturer.

    Apple I and II are just hitting the market, with a strong background in DIY culture, and in the unlikely case you had access to one of these (or something like an Altair 8800 etc), you'd probably know how to fix a blown cap with a soldering iron.

    Maybe I'm glorifying the past here but, Star Wars was written at a time when things, including computers, were expected to be repairable. So what you're writing really only makes sense from a contemporary 2020-ies perspective, nobody would have raised an eyebrow at that detail in 1977 ... probably.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

    Hard agree!

    Star Wars was explicitly written by a greasemonkey as gritty and grungy in direct contrast to the sleek, clean, computer-controlled future that dominated SF in that era. Droids function much more like custom cars than assembly-line computers with wireless updates.

    Even later in our time but earlier in the SW time line, the one example of mass production, the droid army, was comically bad: incredibly dumb, fragile, and incompetent.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Star Wars has a data transmission problem in that software isn't easily distributed across the galaxy.

    Its much more likely Anakin found the programming or just a part with the "OS" installed and put it into a bunch of spare protocol droid parts. Maybe it took some tinkering but I don't think he did a bunch of low level stuff as he's a slave without real education, and I don't believe anything of that level of skill comes up again.

    Also noted, I don't think the droids in Star Wars are 1 for 1 "operating systems" as we know them as they (can) have advanced personalities in a way that our software certainly doesn't do.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

    but I don't think he did a bunch of low level stuff as he's a slave without real education

    You know, back in the not-so-far-away days, the best programmers didn't have educations and the worst ones did.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    The movies do imply he's a pretty savvy scrap engineer, so I'll give him that.

    Its just the environment he's forced to work in.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Yeah, and it's perfectly fine for a kid to be an advanced engineer/mechanic and championship podracer at 9-years-old who also saves the day in a key battle, just as long as they're not a girl because Mary Sues absolutely suck and it's not sexist at all to say that because Marty Stu exists as an entry in allthetropes. /s

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I was a kid when I watched episode 1, and I was so confused by how any of it made any sense.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    This is the loveliest conversation I have seen all week. I have been incredibly burned out with Reddit of late, so this is refreshing.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Lemmy now is what Reddit used to be like in the early days. I hope the enshittification stays away!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    It can't really enshittify, in the original sense of the word, since nobody controls it. It probably will follow the Reddit trajectory, up until the point when the admins started to be evil, though.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago*

    C-3PO is proprietary. How do I know this? George told me it is supposed to be the first warning sign that Anakin is evil.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago

    Little did we known he used two swimming pools worth of water everytime he translated for r2d2

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  • [–] 30 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    I think the reality is that Anakin was written as a tech wizard by writers that saw a lot of technology as just magic that tech wizards can do.

    He was able to build a droid out of spare parts not because there was an open protocol droid system that enables technically inclined people to learn how to build their own custom versions. He built a droid because that's what a child tech genius would do. How did he program it? More tech magic. He's impressive, you aren't supposed to understand anything of what he did, it was just a plot device to show what the chosen one was capable of before the Jedi even found him.

    Not trying to be a wet blanket, just so much of technology in media is written this way.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    I agree with you, and the part that always sinks this within SW is that all he did was put together a very commonly used droid from spare parts. Protocol droids are all over the place!

    Is it impressive to put together a Honda Civic from spare parts in your spare time? Yes. But it's also just a matter of collecting the right parts and having the time to assemble them right. No one is inventing anything new, and it always seemed like that was what EP1 was trying to sort of say.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

    I mean, obviously I wasn't a slave on Tattooine, but I was a poor kid in a rural community. I figure Ani learned how to fix droids the same way I learned how to fix bikes and computers; I needed it, and couldn't afford a new one, so I had to teach myself how to make it work again, or face going hungry.

    A lot of it is... well, kind of like figuring out where puzzle pieces are supposed to fit. Eventually, even if you don't quite know what you're doing yet, you can kind of guess where something is supposed to go. If you have a known good working model to compare to, and a good manual, you can teach yourself all kinds of things if you really need to do it.

    That, and he was owned by Watto. Watto, as an employer (fuck that guy generally, but bear with me), had to teach his employee how to operate equipment. How to catalogue his junk and get it working again so it could be sold. Anakin was a smart kid, but he also literally built and scrapped droids for work. He had hours a day and nearly unlimited broken droids to take apart.

    I've been accused of wizard shit more than once, and I'm nowhere near the same class as the actual tech wizards. I like to think I know enough to get by and call out bullshit. Honestly, the only gripe I have with how Ani's technical talent was written is that he was unrealistically young. The rest was pretty believable.

    The most relatable bit was forgetting to put 3PO's eye back in when he powered him on.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Yeah, and I think that's what they were going for. Just "I programmed this artificial being that feels emotions like happiness, fear, and frustration, has his own wants and desires, and can calculate the odds of arbitrary things on the fly" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. It feels similar to a kid building a computer out of spare parts (reasonable) and then programming his own OS and software for it (less reasonable).

    But, to be fair, maybe it was more of a case of he found modules with those different languages on them and plugged them into a standard but customizable protocol droid program and is referring to that configuration as "programming" rather than the act of writing the software itself. Kinda like how flashing a new ROM onto your bios can be called programming it, despite the lack of coding.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    If putting together a droid is anything like putting together a conventional PC, I would assume that he would have the tools for flashing the industry standard software onto a blank droid brain, just like I do with a blank hard drive. Hell no I didn't write that, I just know the steps for copying it onto storage media so it runs.

    In the Legends canon, droid sentience was the accidental result of an improbably successful computer worm. Wiping droids' memories removes the malware, but it finds its way back eventually.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Although, nobody ever asks Gandalf to fix their printer or build their app. He gets to dine with kings.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Though he does get asked to go back to middle earth and fix it after dying, and the task was a bit more... involved than the typical printer maintenance job (though a laser printer does have some high voltage dangers tbf).

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    my jawa friend says, and i qoute

    Ibana Utinni! Togo m'bwa kwa chee kah

    Make of that what you will

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago

    Just because you can open the can doesn't mean it comes already open.
    That some people can run Linux on a PS5 doesn't make the PS5 open hardware.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Everything is open source if you can read Assembly! (Replace Assembly with whatever the Star Wars equivalent is, which is probably just Assembly.)

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago

    According to a comic released in the early 2000s. Anakin found the husk and most of C3P0's parts in the junkyard before he rebuilt him.

    So how much of him was originally there vs. Rebuilt by Anakin is unknown. But we have seen other protocol droids and they have the same body shapes and parts. But those are the exterior parts. The interior could have been different hardware all together.

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  • This is exactly the content I want from the internet. Thank you.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    When I was a kid and thought about robots I never considered their intelligence would require a massive physical infrastructure just to make the best guess of the next word.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child)

    It seems shortsighted of science fiction authors to have not predicted the problems we're currently having with AI. They had decades to think about it. Did any of them predict that people would be using it to cheat on homework, create scams, disrupt social media with spam and terribly off-putting fake images, publish books and songs nobody wrote and nobody wants, all while using obscene amounts of energy? The world doesn't seem more futuristic or in any danger of getting wiped out by some autonomous AI thing that's been given access to nukes, both typical major themes. The world to me just feels more empty and boring. It's just a new tool hucksters can use to defraud people.

    Some of the other things the tech oligarchs are pursuing are also cliche themes of science fiction: space exploration, the metaverse, the meta glasses, Musk's Neuralink. So if AI did not turn out as expected, how's the rest of this stuff gonna work out?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    Actually, they did predict this. It's been one of the classic ethical questions posed by hard sci-fi since we were feeding punch-cards into slots and soldering breadboards.

    Isaac Asimov in particular wrote a lot of short stories tackling the ways that an AI could break the Laws of Robotics. Hell, he invented the Laws of Robotics specifically as a plot device for his setting to discuss the philosophy behind computer ethics.

    The problem is, the tech oligarchs failed the reading assignment and didn't actually read the books that were supposed to warn them NOT to do the thing.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    Did anyone expect that? Like, there was enough different thinkers, and takes, that somebody probably suggested it.

    Usually, people gravitated in the opposite direction, though: To be smart, an algorithm has to be beautiful and profound and sublime.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago* (8 children)

    Unrelated question: is there any scene in any of the Star Wars where C3PO does anything useful? Like translate something or advice on protocol or something? I remember it kind of walking around and commenting on things but I don't remember it ever actually do anything. R2D2 hacks stuff, helps pilot things and delivers holographic messages but is 3CPO anything other than a toy? Some sort of next generation Furby?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    In Return of the Jedi 3PO is gifted to Jabba the Hutt by Skywalker who uses him as a translation slave for a while. 3PO provides accurate translations for Jabba from what we can see.

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  • Yeah he is a translator/protocol droid he isn't the most useful in a crew who all speaks galactic basic and is running from blaster bolts. But he did everything he was supposed to do just fine. People just don't care to see a droid plugged up to a moisture evaporator doing "nothing"

    He served as a translator when Padme was a senator

    People mention the ewoks

    He was a diplomat for the Jedi for a bit

    Believe he I infiltrated the first order as a spy or some shit as well...

    But one could argue Luke would be dead if C-3PO hadn't told him R2 had taken off and subsequently followed him.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    The parts could be proprietary, but with an interface that Aniken reverse engineered and jerry-rigged together..

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    It is a universe where DRM tied to a central server is impossible. It is likely the software beyond the OEM is cracked to hell and modified far beyond its original purpose. After all, the Millennium Falcon's nav computer is repurposed droid software.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    The internet doesn't exist in SW, so likely things are based on physical modules; so he probably scavenged, repaired, or assembled a physical module that embodies the droid's mind and everything is more or less hard-coded. And because the internet--and perhaps copyright law--doesn't exist, he doesn't need to activate the module with a central server.

    I don't really even think programming is touched on, it's more just based on electronics. Software isn't really at thing.

    [Edit: I mean, obviously software exists, but it doesn't function like real software does in the world. Tech is largely based on droids, which are delightfully physical and embodied for a visual medium, and droids are more like artisanly-modified cars than software that can be updated and copied. That is to say, the technology in Star Wars takes a lot more cues from mechanics and electronics than it does from software and programming. It is a markedy and consciously retro type of future (or should I say "past?").]

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    about as open as a TV remote smashed on the side of the highway after it's been run over by around 1000 eighteen wheelers.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    Fleshhhh you promised me flesssh master.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Since the universe of Star Wars is a similiar Corporatopia as in Rimworld, maybe there's SOC-like Personality Cores, that just adapt to the available actuators and sensors (there was a self-learning 4-legged robo-spider 10 years ago already, that teaches itself walking no matter what).

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  • In Legends canon, droid sapience was accidental. It was the result of a worm that infected droid brains, and was passed wirelessly via shortband communication frequencies. Once it escaped into the wild, there really was no stopping it since by that point it was self-writing and evolving, like a real infectious disease. Wiping droids' memories regularly is supposed to prevent personalities from forming.

    Every droid can develop a personality if you leave them alone long enough. R2 is one of the rare droids in the canon that has never had his memory wiped. Ever. Obi-Wan had 3PO wiped because he's shit at keeping a secret, but R2 knows how to keep his trap shut.

    I can't remember which book it was, but R2 was reminiscing about his life experiences with I think BB-8. Talking about how he feels like it's his duty to be an observer. A recorder, someone who's close to history shaping events, and will always remember the moments that made the future. Which I think was cool.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    You promised me fleeesh! All I feel is paaaain! Why have you done this to me??

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    No, the prequels just have shitty writing.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    From a SF perspective, droids are universally shittily written throughout the franchise:

    You have robots that are completely intelligent and self aware and can do any job and they just sort exists side-by-side with humans as helpers without having any significant impact on the economy or asking for rights.

    I know there are droid rebellions somewhere in the lore, but droids are assiduously unstudied on film.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Its kind of like the "wait do they eat the pokemon?" question, where its gone unmentioned for so long its become too big to tackle properly. Instead you get a brief mention of slowpoke soup or a droid who says hey treat me like a person but 90% of the time its brushed under the rug.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    There's also, in Scarlet & Violet, Klawf al ajillo, which is just a soup of Klawf claw cooked in garlic, as well as Klawf sticks. This is in addition to a bunch of indistinct meats that seemingly also have to come from Pokémon. (Unless those meats are lab-grown, which seems plausible in a world where Pokémon can magically regenerate to full health at a Pokémon Center.)

    Klawf can grow back their claws if they lose them, but organically losing their claws is definitely not how Klawf claws are being harvested for commercial sale.

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  • (Unless those meats are lab-grown, which seems plausible in a world where Pokémon can magically regenerate to full health at a Pokémon Center.)

    I suppose we could use whatever technology is being utilised at Pokemon centres to lop limbs off of Pokemon and then regrow them. No animal killing!

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    In A New Hope, Luke mockingly says “hi” to R2D2 when C3P0 introduces them, as if saying hi to a droid is stupid as they’re not alive.

    Later in the series, when R2 gets his head blown off in combat, Luke doesn’t blink. After the fight, they unload R2 from the X wing and he says “fix him” and walks away. Droids are very much not human in the OG trilogy.

    Then we get to the prequels. R2 saves the ship as they get past the blockade, and the queen does a formal thank you for the droid. It really is a complete 180 and now droids are “people” in the prequels.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago*

    They're not treated as equals in the original, that's for sure, but they're sure written as self-aware individuals.

    Luke threatens to wipe Arturito's memory, too, if he doesn't stop misbehaving; or maybe C3PO mentions it because he's internalized droid hatred?

    I just popped in the DVD of the Lucas re-release of New Hope and Luke is very concerned when R2 comes down, says "oh no", and only relaxes when the technician says, "we'll fix him" ... so I think we see some growth there.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I’m pretty sure Luke gives an insincere “hi” to R2D2 because he’d rather be running down to Tosche Station instead of doing farm work.

    He doesn’t blink when R2 gets shot during the trench run, but his face always conveyed to me that he’s scared shitless to now be alone with fighters on his trail while focusing on pushing through that fear because now he is the last hope for the galaxy.

    Before attacking the Death Star, doesn’t Luke tell the technicians take good care of R2D2? “That little droid and I have been through a lot together”, or something like that? Are those the words of someone who doesn’t care?

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