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[–] 9 points 3 months ago (5 children)

I mean, I'd never buy one, but I dont see the harm a little competition.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I said I would never buy a Chinese car but when I needed to replace my old Subaru I decided I wanted to try an EV and the only reasonable options were Chinese. The MG4 is not perfect but it’s a lot of fun and really cheap to run!

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    No issues ay? The MGs are copping a bit of a panning in Australia for not quite cutting the mustard against the BYDs and Geelys. Not sure how much of it is justified though.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I suspect that the BYD is better however they didn’t have one that met the wife’s requirements. It goes well but has some quirks with not remembering settings, CarPlay can be difficult and the maps have this atrocious habit of chiming when you enter a suburb. Otherwise it’s a car and it was fairly cheap.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago*

    Well that’s not the complete panning I’ve heard some give them. Thank you, happy trails with it. It’s a smart move; I’d do it if I could afford to despite concerns about car privacy issues. They can back a house up in a blackout and that alone is enough reason.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    The reason you don't see harm in a little competition is because that competition won't make you lose money or work harder in order to generate profits.

    Think about the capitalist/Epstein class for once in your life.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (6 children)

    Whelp, guess you shouldn't have spent years abandoning the legacy of Henry Ford. While I'm certainly glad they've let go of his overt racism, they abandoned the positive parts of his legacy too.

    There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible.

    -Henry Ford

    Henry Ford would have never done a stock buyback. He designed and improved the Model T to be as cheap as possible. He designed it to be as repairable as possible. He built in clever features like a power takeoff so that farmers could power attachments with their car. He fostered a diverse ecosystem of third party manufacturers that would make accessories and modifications to Model Ts. He didn't try to sue them or do whatever the 1920s equivalent of locking things behind DRM would be.

    Today, if it lives anywhere, the legacy of Henry Ford lives on in China. American car manufacturers have completely abandoned the vision of creating an affordable vehicle for the common man. Instead, the companies have been completely infested by the MBA class, who realize you can get a higher rate of return by making fewer numbers of extremely expensive cars. Ford invented the assembly line specifically so he could make a car that the average person could afford.

    Henry Ford was a common man born on a small farm, son of an Irish immigrant. Today, Ford Motor Company is lead by CEO Jim Farley, who previously was CEO of McDonalds and Harley-Davidson. His bio from his Wikipedia page:

    Farley was born to a banker father in Buenos Aires, Argentina,[1] where he spent his early years, before moving to Greenwich, Connecticut. Before university, Farley attended Portsmouth Abbey School, a Catholic, college preparatory school in Portsmouth, Rhode Island.[citation needed] He graduated from Georgetown University and then later, the UCLA Anderson School of Management at the University of California, Los Angeles.[2][1]

    Farley's grandfather worked at Henry Ford's River Rouge Plant in 1918.[2] He is a cousin of the entertainers Chris Farley, Kevin Farley, and John Farley. He is also a cousin of Carolina Hurricanes TV analyst and former NHL and AHL player Tripp Tracy.

    Ford Motor Company was founded by a man who came from nothing. Currently it's lead by a man born with a silver spoon in his mouth. China is recent enough to industrialization that most of its car companies are still led by their original founders, most of whom came from very humble beginnings. I can't help but think this has a profound impact on how they see the world and the types of cars they seek to build.

    If the American car companies really want to compete, they should adopt a new rule. No executive should have been born to a family making more than 90% of the median household income or have attended an Ivy League school. And they must have an engineering degree and no MBA.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I'll not miss a chance to tell people about the original shareholder value over all else situation we're in, was created when Ford tried to run his company by investing in his employees, and was sued by Dodge bros, who were a 10% owner in Ford.

    First nail in the coffin of our current era was hammered in by Dodge, remember that next time you see one.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Not to mention he spread rumors he was leaving the company to tank its value to then buy out the Dodge Bros for pennies on the dollar.

    I just finished the docuseries lol

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    Oh there's a lot more to it than I'm going to briefly link to for those curious enough to follow breadcrumbs

    Another Ford misadventure for the savvy: when he bought 2.5million acres in Brazil to make a rubber plantation factory town, but quickly turned into a disaster. They built suburban homes in a jungle to house local workers while trying to get his American managers to enforce diets on them.

    I guess these ideas seemed good at the time....?lol

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    JFC...Henry Ford was an antisemite and hired thugs to kill workers trying to unionize his factory. He also tried to build his own country and forced workers to eat a diet the dictated. He's no different than any modern billionaire. He literally murdered workers during the 1930s,

    In the aftermath, Ford Motor Company attempted to control the narrative by destroying news photographs onsite. The surviving photographs were published nationally as evidence of Ford's brutality, helping to turn public perception in favor of the union.

    The incident had been preceded five years earlier by the 1932 Ford Hunger March, in which hunger marchers were attacked with gunfire from the Miller Road pedestrian overpasses. The site of that attack remained an entrance to the Rouge plant, and the overpass bears the logo of the United Auto Workers in addition to Ford's.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Overpass?wprov=sfla1

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    Asap please!!

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    Good. Make the US brands squirm. They're just riding lobbying and a general lack of competition.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    I was blown away by this documentary on the Chinese EV industry. Can see why the old companies in the west can’t easily adapt, mostly due to mindset and sunk cost fallacy. Roboticics everywhere and cutthroat competition driving innovation.

    Watching  S2026 China's EV Revolution  in iview https://iview.abc.net.au/show/foreign-correspondent/series/2026/video/NC2604H012S00

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    They are just moving into the void left by American car brands. Anyone surprised by this?

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago
    [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Telling your employees that they might soon have options for who to work for? It's a bold strategy, Cotton...

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago*

    From the Wikipedia page of the Ford Mustang Mach-E

    In April 2022, Ford stopped accepting new orders for the 2022 model year Mustang Mach-E due to its popularity.

    In June 2022, the CFO of Ford Motor announced that the profitability of the Mustang Mach-E had been wiped out due to increases in the cost of raw materials.[47]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_Mach-E

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  • 65 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 53 points 3 months ago (19 children)

    Can't think of a single US automaker I'd buy from and I doubt that would change within 10 years.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    I rent a lot of vehicles for work when traveling, I can't say I thought "I could see myself owning one of these" or even enjoyed driving Cadillacs, Jeeps, Chevy or Fords. The Jeeps were junk, the transmissions were way out of tune with the engine and the suspension felt like I was in a horse carriage. The Fords all had huge gas tanks, turned like boats, and the computer kept glitching. The Chevy had good performance but felt cheap. I couldn't figure out why anyone would think a Cadillac was a luxury vehicle, It was like driving a Kia but everything was loose.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago (14 children)

    There is one, Slate. They are offering a small electric truck that lets you fully customize it. There is also no tracking built in at all, which no other manufacturer can say right now.

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  • [–] 19 points 3 months ago (10 children)

    Yeah, but it's owned by Bezos, so fuck no.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    It's not.
    Bezos is one of the many investors that provided funding for it at the start, but he has a minority stake in the company.

    At one point he had one board representative, but now even that isn't the case any more.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    Close enough. Fuck Bezos and everything he touches.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Odds are he's invested in most companies. I'm sure some portion of his wealth is in a manger fund that spreads it out across the market. If you want to avoid everything he touches, you basically have to leave the economy.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    Yes. Leaving the economy is the point. This is the only way to stop feeding the beast at the individual level. Pay off any debts and don't participate as much as possible. No person needs to shop at Amazon or anywhere else controled by private equity and billionaires. Support you local farmers and businesses. Buy used when possible.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    Ok, sure. You can't exit the economy though, as much as one might want to.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    No, you're right. Let's just give in and not bother trying since they already won.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    You should try. Telling people to do things that are futile isn't how you get them to do things though. Actionable direction is. People can boycott some things. They aren't going to boycott everything. Telling them to just ensures they do nothing.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Truck seems the least efficient form for a electric vehicle, who's this car for, the kind of losers who'd want a truck purely for the aesthetics think electric vehicles are gay

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    I agree, trucks aren't the ideal form, for me or most drivers. However, they are the form that is probably the most versatile. A van, even a minivan, can carry just about as much cargo (with the advantage of being internal), but a truck can even extend beyond its bed. It's also the most sold vehicle type. If you're only going to make one vehicle, a truck is probably the ideal one. I hope they make others, but they're likely trying to keep costs down until they have some product out.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Slate and Mutaniy Motors are the only ones to give me a lil hope.

    Otherwise it's Edison Motors from Canada

    Everyone else is stuck in the past or China looking to revolutionize the market with checks notes slavery and public investment.

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    [–] 34 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Oh no! Here comes capitalism from a communist country. It's like we built infrastructure to exploit cheap labor for short term gains and it's backfiring! Who could have ever seen this coming?

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    China is just state influences capitalism, the workers don't own the means of production, but it turns out if you invest in your means of production you can easily beat those that don't.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Except China has advantages in supply chain integration and way cheaper labor that's kept artificially low by it's government playing games with it's currency exchange rate.

    Translation: our workers are paid better, our companies follow relatively strict environmental law (or used to) and our government hasn't helped spy on other countries' technology advancements and given it to private industry to beat the other guys.

    That's a pretty steep advantage to China.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Your government hasn’t spied on other countries’ technological advancements?

    The US government has:

    1. Hired actual nazis,
    2. Systematically attacked other nations to keep them out of the way of their private business,
    3. Attacked and kidnapped the president of Venezuela for oil companies,
    4. Mercilessly beaten down Cuba while many pharma leaders visit and take Cuban medical advancements back home,
    5. And absolutely participated in a huge number of heinous shit I’m not even aware of.

    And better pay? I mean, yea, but c’mon. The US is a dystopian nightmare dressed up in juuust enough personal comforts to keep most people from doing anything, and with so much of the country below the poverty line I would hardly call that a win. On the topic of artifical impacts to the cost labour, the governments of the US allow for all kinds of labour and human rights violations which keep people struggling and always playing catch-up.

    Environmetal law is a huge nothing. How many people have been poisoned by US chemical companies, like 3M and Dupont, with barely any consequences handed out? The US doesn’t give a fuck about the environment and it never truly has. US-based oil companies release all kinds of highly doctored and misleading reports to try to greenwash their shitty behaviour while laughing behind closed doors(and sometimes out in the open).

    I’m not going to say that China is a Utopia, or even decent by many standards, but if you think the US has anything to be proud of you need to sit down and shut up. Fuck the US.

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  • [–] 38 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    Jim Farley, CEO of Ford drives a fucking Xiaomi SU7. If he wont drive a Lincoln, then Ford deserves to die.

    Instead of giving themselves buybacks when money was good, they should have been innovating.

    Bye, Ford.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (8 children)

    FORD is just an acronym for: Found On Road Ditch

    Rightfully so too.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    They could do it tomorrow if it were legal

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Australia is currently saturated with cheap, shotty Chinese EV and ICE cars. Weird brands I'd never heard of last year.

    I suspect many of them will probably pump and dump in 5 years, and exiting the AU market when their shit starts to break down and they become obligated to fix it under robust and well enforced Australian consumer law. If consumer law isn't nerfed by then.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    It'll be very interesting to see the longevity of those new chinese cars. They certainly have saturated the market, and by all accounts appear to be reasonably good value, but who knows what their long-term reliability will be like

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  • [–] 31 points 3 months ago

    I sure hope he's right.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    Thank the Lord in heaven! I'd buy a BYD right now if I could.

    Let's take stock for a moment. A freaking Toyota Corolla is pushing $30,000. A Corolla.

    A regular F-150 is $60,000+. The average new car sells for around $40,000, and the average monthly payment is close to $1,000.

    And guess what? They're not selling. They're just too expensive. A Ford Raptor is over $100,000. Over $100,000. Dealerships are flooded with them, and they still aren't making meaningful deals.

    From a purely economic perspective, we need competition from China to force this market back toward affordable vehicles, because there are no genuinely cheap, affordable new cars in this country anymore.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (10 children)

    Why are Chinese cars so inexpensive?

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago

    That's a very difficult question to answer.

    On one hand, there's a minimum price at which a product can be sold while still generating enough profit for a company to remain viable, pay its employees, and continue operating.

    On the other hand, there's the American business practice of maximizing every possible fraction of a cent in pursuit of higher quarterly profits. As we all know from game theory, pure min-maxing doesn't always produce the best long-term outcome. There has to be a balance. Nevertheless, many American companies are driven primarily by maximizing shareholder returns. In doing so, they can end up shooting themselves in the foot, making decisions that inflate short-term financial results while ultimately reducing their long-term profitability.

    China, by contrast, has a quasi-socialist market economy under a single-party government. It has invested heavily in developing strategic industries, including electric vehicles. The government sets national priorities and can exert enormous influence over companies. If corporate leadership fails to meet those objectives, it can be replaced far more easily than in Western economies.

    In the United States, corporations instead spend enormous sums lobbying politicians to pass laws favorable to their interests. But, as discussed above, relentlessly optimizing for short-term gains doesn't always produce the best long-term results.

    That's one reason Chinese cars are so inexpensive. Or rather, they're arguably priced closer to what cars should cost. The real question may be why cars in the United States have become so expensive. Automakers cite rising costs, regulations, technology, and financing practices, but prices seem to ratchet upward far more readily than they ever come back down.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    The businessmen in China know they will be shot by the government if they are too exploitative.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    You think workers have better quality of life in China?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    In some areas, like being able to afford a car, people in China are probably better off than people in the US.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Maybe, but vehicle ownership in the United States is way higher per capita. Something like 17 of households in China versus almost 90 in the United States. That could change with the availability and cost of electric vehicles, but as of now it's still pretty skewed.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Many reasons but two big ones are that they don't pay employees like North America does, and I'm fully convinced they're pulling the EEE technique to dominate the NA market once they're in.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    North American workers aren't earning much more than they did 20-30 years ago while vehicle sales prices went up 8-10x. So no, it isn't workers' wages driving the difference. Executive pay, stock buybacks & dividends, lobbying, advertising have all increased multiple times more than EE pay packages.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Heavy jnvestment in battery industry and government steered subsidies into renewables vs endless money to bomb brown people.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago

    Don’t threaten me with a good time! I’d be driving a BYD right now if I could

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    "And instead of improving our offerings we will spend tens of millions "contributing" (bribing) politicians to make sure that doesn't happen."

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago

    American cars suck.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago

    It's happening way before then!

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    good. maybe people can afford to buy one. unlike overpriced ford ipads on wheels.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    I was blown away by this documentary on the Chinese EV industry. Can see why the old companies in the west can’t easily adapt, mostly due to mindset and sunk cost fallacy. Roboticics everywhere and cutthroat competition driving innovation.

    Watching  S2026 China's EV Revolution  in iview https://iview.abc.net.au/show/foreign-correspondent/series/2026/video/NC2604H012S00

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    They should enter now

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    It would be nice to be able to consider more asian brands than just japanese and korean when next replacing a car and ignoring everything American.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago*

    Farley talks a good game but has always been full of shit. If he agrees that ford needs to turn around to compete with new technology, he should talk to the CEO about it

    Where’s that conviction when you gave up on EVs instead of trying to improve your own technology? Where have their ever been ford EVs that normal people could buy? What about those for employees eager to jump to new technology when you shut down their factories?

    And seriously, they’re competitive with Chinese cars in Europe because they resell Geelys (Chinese cars)? What kind of bs is that?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Boo fucking hoo, I hope ford GM and Chevy all sink

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Correct me if it's worth it to you. I am doing gut math, but isn't a Ford vehical only like 20% fewer made in China parts? They might even be equal parts, just 1 assembled in Mexico.

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