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[–] 303 points 7 months ago (167 children)

Remember when people got punched for wearing Google glasses?

Peppridge farm remembers

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  • [+] -125 points 7 months ago (164 children)

    Yeah that wasn’t humanity’s brightest moment.

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  • [–] 179 points 7 months ago (144 children)

    Stopped this bullshit for a decade or so

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  • [+] -85 points 7 months ago (83 children)

    Stop advocating violence against people who might be recording video in public, just because the device doing it is on their face.

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  • [–] 89 points 7 months ago (45 children)

    You actually should advocate for violence against people who are violating your rights

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  • [+] -44 points 7 months ago (23 children)

    What right would be violated here exactly?

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  • [–] 43 points 7 months ago* (14 children)

    facebook knowing my personal information against my will goes against my right to privacy. there are also the ethics of recording people in secret instead of making it very obvious. no, a blinking red dot does not count, and it can also be covered with a special purpose-made made black sticker.

    now that i think about it, I'm just not comfortable being filmed without consent by strangers at all, in any way, regardless of where the images end up.

    i don't think people should get used to it either. it's incredibly creepy, even if no law is broken where you live.

    and yes, i do understand that in many places just being in public reduces your right to privacy so that you're legally allowed to be photographed as long as you're not the focus. i don't care. still creepy.

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  • [+] -16 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I'm sure you're aware while you traverse in public you are on camera pretty much the entire time, right? There are cameras everywhere always filming, some you know about and can clearly see, some you will never know about and never see. Your face is in a database whether you consent or not.

    The part about Facebook knowing your information without your consent? Do you have an account with them?

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    The proliferation of cameras in public is not a good thing. I am yet to see data showing it reduces criminality (supposed to be the intent), meanwhile it's a massive surveillance system.

    And the fact that a given situation is bad is hardly a good argument to promote making it worse.

    Meta collects data on everyone: from contact info in cellphone through their apps, uploaded photos, videos etc. If you don't have an account nor consent to anything, they will just not show the data, but will still build the profile combining different sources and feed it to its algorithms.

    It has been a well known practice for many years.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Facebook has a profile on everyone. Accounts or not. They are just like every other data broker. All they want is access to more data and more data.

    All that medical data is the holy grail.... Anyone who thinks medical data will remain private is naive. All it takes is very deep pockets and lawmakers who want contributions to change the laws.

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  • [+] -27 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    I agree it can be creepy. But where I live, and in the US, as well as many other countries, you have no expectation of privacy in public. That's why it's called public. It might feel right to want to impose some restrictions on public photography, but since there's absolutely no way to fairly draw a line, it's better to not impose limits at all.

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago* (7 children)

    there's absolutely a way to draw a line. no smart glasses. even if there wasn't, no regulation for the sake of regulators being too dumb is the worst take possible.

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  • [+] -19 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    No smart glasses. Alright, then I would wear hidden camera's in the buttons of my shirt. The point I'm trying to make here, is that this is not a technological debate. It's about freedoms: having your freedoms means having to respect others' as well.

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    why the need for hidden recording equipment anyway? do you wanna spy on women that badly?

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Like respecting others' freedom to a reasonable degree of privacy.

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  • [+] -19 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    To draw a line between what is and isn’t reasonable is impossible.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    What fact about yourself are you least willing to share with strangers?

    If there is no way to tell if that is a reasonable question for me to ask, then by what metric do you decide whether or not to answer it? Does that metric act as a stand-in for "reasonableness" to you, and if so then how do you square it with your earlier insistence that drawing such a line is impossible? If not, why?

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    *Unless Facebook does the unreasonable searching and we pay them for any data they collect

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Funny how people think they have a "right" of privacy in public.. there is absolutely no expectation of privacy in public. Besides, there are cameras EVERYWHERE always filming.

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  • [+] -15 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    And you’re the second person in this thread who can think. Thank you.

    I’ve been threatened with violence twice already in this very thread, in the hypothetical scenario that I would film them. I don’t think Lemmy is for me. Too violent.

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  • [+] -34 points 7 months ago (20 children)

    You don't have the right not to be filmed in public. Do you punch every person filming in public? and if you punch someone wearing the glasses, most likely they weren't even recording.

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You do in Germany, except during events/gatherings/marches.

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  • [+] -11 points 7 months ago

    I am aware. If the yanks want to copy it then they should

    1. overthrow the orange turd
    2. campaign for it democratically

    not go around punching people for violating a legal right they do not have. Your discomfort at maybe having your picture doesn't entitle you to violence.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago*

    If I see someone filming me, I ask them to stop. That will escalate if they don’t.

    I think what people are missing here is the intention. There’s generalised filming of your surroundings, surveillance cameras…these glasses are intended for use in a social capacity. That will move into privacy issues and perverted use.

    These peoples right to use these glasses, as far as I’m concerned, does not eclipse my privacy or lack of desire to be filmed and put on Metas platforms and if I find someone using them on me they’ll be fucking told.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    *Unless Facebook is the one doing the unreasonable search, and we simply buy their data

    most likely they weren't even recording.

    Sweet summer child

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  • [+] -23 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    You didn't answer the question. You could just have said that you're overreacting because it's tech associated with Meta and you don't like them, even though it's basically the same as a phone, just on your face.

    You think smart glasses have enough battery to record constantly? lol.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You mean you can't tell the difference between someone visibly recording you and someone recording you with a hidden camera? You feel like both of those are the same thing?

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago

    I feel like if the problem is being recorded, it doesn't matter whether it's done with a hidden or visible camera.

    I feel like if the problem is being secretly recorded, you should be just as mad at bags possibly being used to xonceal a recording phone as at these glasses.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Most likely either the glasses are in a state of recording, or the wearer has no idea what it's doing. Damned! After so many scandals, people still assume Meta will do what it claims and not trick its users! Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, shame on me! Fool me 42 times, more, please MOOOOORE!

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  • [+] -7 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    A simple back-of-the-envelope calculation involving battery capacity and power consumption puts that idea to bed.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Nope. These things can certainly take pics regularly and still last.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Recording from a camera consumes upwards of 1W on mobile platforms. With the ~160mAh battery in Ray Ban Meta smart glasses, the battery would last about 40 minutes, assuming they are doing nothing else. Given that the radio needs to be powered to upload that footage somewhere, and doing all this will keep the SoC in a higher wake state, that is a very optimistic upper bound.

    I'm sorry that you and everyone who downvoted me think that hating on Meta is more real than physics.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (5 children)

    You still fail to understand you don't need to be continuously filming to monitor what's going in front of a camera.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I didn't grasp that by "recording" what you meant was "taking a picture every so often", no.

    How often, then are you saying they turn on the camera, focus and expose, capture the picture, wake up the SoC, and power the radio to send the data off somewhere?

    Should be relatively easy to test this by monitoring current flow to the camera, right?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    Go ahead and test yours. Repeat after each update and check if it's location and/or time dependent.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Don't have any, obviously 🙄

    So, are you going to cut the conspiracy crap until you have evidence? Thought not.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Facebook introduces private messages. They're private. Ah, no! They sold these messages to Microsoft, Amazon and Huawei! -- They trust me, dumbfucks!
    Facebook has all interest to work for the benefits of its users. Ah, no! They literally experimented on people to see if they could make them more depressed or more happy. -- They trust me, dumbfucsk!
    Facebook has an active moderation. Ah, no! They knowingly let disinformation spread and lead to a genocide because engagement numbers were good. -- They trust me, dumbfucks!
    Instagram minds kids and their sensitivities. Ah, no! They have algorithms to exploit their insecurity because engagement numbers were good, who cares if a few of them end up depressed and kill themselves. -- They trust me, dumbfucks!
    Whatsapp has E2E because they value privacy. Ah, no! The app sends home a copy of the private key on demand, rendering the whole thing pointless. -- They trust me, dumbfucks.

    Meta's glasses would never take a picture without their wearer's explicit consent.

    Fortunately for them, some people are really really really dumbfucks to a point Forrest Gump would look like a genius next to them.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    We get it, you hate the company, for a variety of reasonable and unreasonable things.

    And because of that, you hate all its users and have no qualms about assaulting them.

    I no longer know which thread this is because voyager isn't showing context, so if your reply was off the point I don't gonna correct you.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    You don't have the right not to be filmed in public.

    Uhhhh, you actually do.* I am not sure if you know, but different places have different laws.

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago (17 children)

    It's easy to see someone holding up a camera or cell phone making it obvious they are recording. If you don't want to be recorded, you can just stay the fuck away from them. You can't avoid cameras/recording devices you can't see. Fuck meta, and fuck anyone else wearing their garbage, privacy invading glasses.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It’s easy to see someone holding up a camera or cell phone making it obvious they are recording.

    Really? I routinely keep my phone in my breast pocket whenever I wear a shirt with one, and enough of it sticks out for the camera to see above the top of the pocket. I'd look no different recording or not, let alone it being obvious if I'm doing it. It'd be shaky body-cam style footage, but that's not the point.

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  • [+] -13 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    Yeah, it'll be really hard to spot the giant dorky glasses with the laser beam recording LED.

    Of course, in practice you don't behave differently when you spot someone holding their phone up in the street, because you're already behaving like you're being watched because you're in fucking public.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    People with legal issues, immigration issues or violent exes will absolutely dip if they see someone recording. I have none of these problems and I will always avoid gettIng recorded by randos if it’s easy to do so. I can’t reasonably avoid every Ring cam in my neighborhood but I will happily slide 10 feet to the left to avoid becoming collateral damage in some dbags insta reel.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    So you can do the same thing when you see someone wearing the glasses, then. You won't always be able to spot them, of course. Just like you can't spot if someone's filming on their phone all the way down a train carriage, or in a crowd.

    If your immigration and law enforcement agencies are so awful (I assume most people here are American, and so they are) that normal people recording videos risks harm to people who haven't done anything wrong, then it seems like the focus should be on that first, and video recording in general second.

    People in this thread want to punch wearers of smart glasses because they hate Zuck. They all have issues if their rage comes out that way.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    If I spot one in a public place, and I start filming them while shouting "Are you recording a video right now with these smartglasses?", I guess that would be totally fine, right? No reason to make them uncomfortable, because they'll be in their right.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    Yeah, that would be very different than punching them, obviously?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    It's absolutely legal to film them as you said, and it is absolutely legal to speak up. If that makes them uncomfortable, that's entirely their problem, isn't it?

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Making people uncomfortable is not solely the problem of that person, no, but it would be entirely inappropriate for the glasses-wearer to respond by punching the person making them feel uncomfortable.

    I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. "Being made to feel uncomfortable" is on a completely different level than being physically assaulted.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    You'll understand when you'll be surrounded by parents wondering if you're secretly filming or taking pics of their kids.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    And why will they think that? Is it because I may have a phone in my hand, because I do use a phone quite a lot, and they can be used to film people.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    If you orientate your phone with cameras towards people, they'll assume you're taking pics or filming. Otherwise, it's a general purpose device.

    If you wear creep-glasses designed to secretly take pics or film people, a lot of people will assume you're secretly taking pics or filming.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The glasses aren't designed to secretly take pictures. They're designed to make it quite hard to take pictures secretly, by having an LED that comes on to notify others, and a mechanism to detect if the LED is covered.

    So, if the light isn't on, and if someone wearing them isn't constantly rotating their head to look at you, are still beating them up?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The glasses are much more difficult to detect than someone holding up a phone to record. Will the glasses always look super obvious? The old Google ones were ginormous, I don’t know if I would recognize the FB ones in the wild.

    You can generally tell when a phone camera is pointed in your general direction within a reasonable range. It’s uncommon enough for people to do this in public outside of large crowds (concerts, sporting events, etc) that avoiding those situations isn’t an undue burden. With the glasses, can you tell whether they’re recording or do you just have to assume that they’re always recording?

    This is a non trivial escalation and I will definitely shun and or shame anyone I encounter with this trash tech.

    And there is nothing wrong with hating Zuck, his companies and the other billionaires destroying society. If you don’t have issues with existential threats then that is a bigger issue.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago

    The glasses are very chunky. They have a light to show they're recording, and if you deliberately disable it you could just as well conceal your phone or whatever in a bag.

    There's nothing wrong with hating Zuck, but that shouldn't extend to uncritically hating everything relating to him and his companies to the point where you're willing to advocate or excuse violence against his customers, which is happening here.

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  • [–] 39 points 7 months ago (17 children)

    A clear violation of the social contract deserves a swift response. Those glasses come off your face, and onto the pavement.

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  • [+] -22 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Who made this social contract? I certainly didn't. You want to be able to tell everyone else what the social contract is, and assault them if they don't comply.

    Fascist.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    When you say "fascist", you do realize that fascism involves crowd control and these glasses are a dream for a fascist regime? All the speech about "cameras everywhere is ok" falls right in the authoritarianism thinking, that's just a step from fascism.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Control of the public sphere is not a hallmark of fascism, no. Control of the private sphere is.

    Either way though, using violence to force your political views on others is more fascist and more wrong than any amount of surveillance.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Nah, I see someone wearing a nazi armband, they are getting decked. It's still assault and against the law, but still the right thing to do in regards to maintaining the social contract.

    Political violence is sometimes necessary unfortunately.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You might argue that someone wearing a Nazi armband is threatening violence due to the inherent violence of Nazi ideology.

    The same cannot be said for wearing some dorky glasses, no matter how much you hate them.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago*

    You don't believe there is a risk the people storing and using tjat footage data could use it for violence or inflicting even in it's broadest definition of violence?

    But that isn't my point. I was always concerned with the political violence is never the answer sentiments.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    This account ^ is going very far out of its way to make very bad points and overlook obvious gaping privacy violations, which are things that can be both identified and stopped.

    The takeaway of massively privacy invading glasses is they can always be stopped at both the individual and the systemic level.

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  • [+] -31 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    No they don’t. I might actually go film on the sidewalk just outside your home, and there would be nothing at all you can do about it.

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  • [+] 12 points 7 months ago* (6 children)
  • [+] -23 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I don't appreciate the threat of violence. I won't surrender my property to you, you will not destroy my property, you will not hurt me without me defending myself, and your attorney will not bend the law for you.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    You really want these glasses, don't you? You're smart enough to debate the hypothetical, but miss the obvious point that new things will not be regulated as they should be, so the law doesn't function as it should in this situation. You cling tightly to the law as if it's doing what it's meant to do, when we both know you'd be taking advantage of the lack of laws for no clear benefit.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Let's say hypothetically that he assaults you, you sue him, then he raises 200k$ for his defense through crowdfunding because I bet the majority of people don't want creeps to record them secretly. You're still confident in your odds?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    This may be perfectly legal but it is absolutely a dick move and people will HATE you for it. The are so many scenarios where perfectly reasonable people will find this behavior extremely unsettling, at best, and possibly threatening.

    And you are incorrect in assuming that “there would be nothing [the subject] can do about it “. In the real world there are plenty of people who will risk an assault charge to deal with someone being a disrespectful dick, and many more who will act if they feel threatened.

    Now, might doesn’t make right, but are you right? Going against social norms and risking extrajudicial retaliation to fight injustice is commendable. But this isn’t sitting at a lunch counter during segregation or protesting at Stonewall. In a world where 1 in 3 women will be stalked in her lifetime ( in the US according to the Justice Department), why is this the hill you want to die upon?

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  • [+] -82 points 7 months ago (59 children)

    But violence isn’t the answer. And certainly not to people doing legal stuff in public. Wearing a Google Glass in private is different though.

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  • [–] 64 points 7 months ago (19 children)

    All I'm saying is last time this tech trend came around, enough people who had a problem with it took drastic actions that directly affected the popularity of wearing a spycam on your face.

    Wouldn't surprise or upset me if history repeated itself.

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  • [+] -46 points 7 months ago (18 children)

    Wouldn’t surprise me either. But it’s a hugely illogical reaction.

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Its not. I wish we lived in a world where we could be trusted with things like this, but we dont.

    I really want a camera on my face and a HUD so I can live life more like a video game with screenshots, but we as a species have shown time and time again that we can't behave.

    Id rather nobody have one.

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  • [+] -26 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Look, taking such glasses into a locker room is a problem. But someone wearing them in public is not. Anyone punching someone who does that should be taken to jail, simple as that.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    What about if we jail the people who wear spycams in public first? Then there won't be any violence.

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  • [+] -15 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    And would you make an exception for journalistic purposes? Serious question.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I’d say there are some valid use cases. Like sports? Biking, skiing, anywhere you might use a GoPro. This might work for sports where it is impractical to wear a GoPro. Also if they did this right, if it had a decent hud and zoom, this could be really helpful for the visually impaired or for other disabilities or medical conditions. That’s where these would be really helpful to society. But they never focus on that kind of shit. Instead it’s tech bros who want to sell this as a gimmick people can record themselves fucking, or stupid shit in the bar for their TikTok.

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  • [+] -7 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    But how do you draw the line between good and bad use cases? Even trying to draw that line brings you on a fast lane to totalitarianism.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    lol are you just here to argue? You’re being heavily downvoted in this thread, and I think somewhat unfairly. I’m somewhat supporting your case. Where do you draw the line? I don’t know. Maybe as a starting point we could say anywhere you might wear a GoPro you could wear these? Idk, and that doesn’t cover the visually impaired case. But randomly punching people does seem a bit extreme. There’s plenty of technologies to secretly record people, if someone wants to do it, they can do it. But also there’s the question what all are these things sharing with meta, in some way to map out and track the physical world in their systems and databases.

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  • [+] -7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Thank you. Yeah I got pulled in to this thread a bit too much. It’s just bugging me that multiple people have already said to me that they’d commit physical violence if I would do something legal they’d feel uncomfortable with. Multiple people threatening violence over a simple hypothetical disagreement. It’d be better for me to stop arguing, probably. But it’s hard to let go.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I can help explain. People are threatening physical violence because they see surveillance as akin to violence. They know that you are not the only one with access to the camera, that corporations or police could see them through your camera. They know that corporations and police often abuse their power and harrass people who legally oppose them.

    These people feel they have no other options but violence because automatic surveillance is forced onto societies regardless of the people's vote. They believe violence is bad, but surveillance is worse, and since surveillance can lead to violence by the state, people would rather be violence towards surveillance tech now before they are threatened for whatever the government decides is illegal that day.

    I agree with you that violence is often not the answer, and that discourse and voting is the right way. Where we might disagree is how well discourse and voting works when both are manipulated for selfish gain. Violence is a last resort, never a first, and it's important to understand why people choose violence because it shapes society so drastically.

    I wouldn't punch a person wearing smart glasses, but I support both other people breaking their property and pushing to make that property illegal. Laws serve society, not the other way around.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    I just saw a US Department of Justice report that 1 in 3 women are stalked in their lifetime. People with immigration issues are getting disappeared to concentration camps. US prisons are notoriously inhumane and people on parole can get violated for trivial reasons. The failure to understand that there are people who will feel seriously threatened by getting recorded without consent is just frustratingly ignorant.

    Yeah, there are a million security cameras everywhere but at least it is mostly just ignored and not an issue until law enforcement is actively looking for you (IDK what kind of Palantir evil is happening on the back end but that’s a whole nother issue). Social media is super random and chaotic. Why take the risk that your life will get blown up because you happened by a viral moment?

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    How is it illogical if it worked? It might be immoral, but there's a clear through-line of cause and effect.

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  • [+] -11 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    It's illogical because you're being recorded for far more nefarious purposes anyways.

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  • [–] 48 points 7 months ago (17 children)

    doing legal stuff in public

    Just because its legal doesn't mean its right

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  • [+] -22 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    See, what’s “right” is a (shared) opinion. One of the consequences of living in a free country is that other people can have their own opinions.

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  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago (5 children)
  • [+] -13 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    The smartest thing you did today was delete that comment. What happened, did you have an epiphany?

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I realized arguing with a dipshit like you was beneath me

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  • [+] -23 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    If you think something is wrong then, unless that risk places you at actual risk of harm, you can have that conversation - in public forums, at the ballot box, with your political representatives. If, rather, you want to dictate what you think is right on everyone, with threat of violence then that is something else.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    If you wear this, you're an agent of the gestapo.

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  • [+] -6 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    The Gestapo, known for using violence to suppress the activities of those they don't like without allowing the public to come to a democratic decision on the matter? Interesting.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    No, you're like one of the folks ratting out their neighbors to the gestapo.

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  • [+] 23 points 7 months ago (15 children)
  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I agreed with you up to this statement, no Karen, getting filmed in public is not violence, even if it's concealed, Jesus Christ

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    Consent scales, the one thing we all owe each other is basic human decency and a right to live our lives unimpeded as long as you’re not harming anyone. Filming/eavesdropping/invading boundaries and making people uncomfortable in a space let alone their own skin is grossly invasive

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    It absolutely is! But you know what it's not? Violence. As soon as you start being hyperbolic you lose nearly all credibility because now I think "right this person is being dramatic"

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    How can someone be dramatic about consent?

    I’m not saying jump to violence immediately. We can start with rehabilition like Nordic countries, something as extreme as exile or yes violence.

    I try not to assume anyone’s country of origin/habitat but with America we’re seeing first hand when the only accountability is a slap on the wrist, a finger wag and shame on you fine.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    Because by using hyperboly you've stretched the truth of that narrative you're trying to convince people of. my head, that immediately makes you seem untrustworthy, and I'm likely to start writing off your concerns as dramatics. It's all about credibility, at least with me and I assume with others as well, claiming violence for being filmed is like claiming assault because someone leered at you, it's over the top and I will this treat it as ridiculous

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  • [+] -20 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Filming in public is not a form of violence in and of itself. Have you ever noticed that the public is called "public", which is the opposite of "private"?

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago* (8 children)

    sharing that information with facebook is the violence. i don't care if you take a photo and print it out to have it in a photo album. i care when i am in a big tech database, or even worse, an intelligence agency database. not that the two are very separate.

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  • [+] -16 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    That's a twisted view on the definition of violence.. Anyhow, how would you distinguish between people filming for journalistic purposes, people filming and sending it to Meta, and people filming for other reasons? How would you decide who deserves your violence?

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    if i feel uncomfortable being filmed i will make myself heard, first nonviolently, then maybe with a bit of physical pressure. if I don't even get to know when i am being filmed that's intensely devious.

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  • [+] -18 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    You can’t force people to act on you’re subjective feeling of being uncomfortable. Can’t.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    people shouldn't make others uncomfortable.

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  • [+] -11 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago*

    Yes…………

    Notice the ‘should’ in there?

    That word implys that he is talking about a moral prerogative and not a judicial matter…

    Which of course means its unenforceable. You're missing the point entirely if you think that even needs to be brought up.

    Him: “People Ought to // ought not to do this behaviour”

    Your: “Cant Force them hahahaha pwned 😎"

    Maybe just take a second to think about the implications of what you're reading instead of embarrassing yourself like this going autocomplete mode and writing irrelevant ass comments

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Seems pretty enforcable to me. Hell, they were even able to compel the U.S. Olympic committee to pay out hundreds of millions when their lead team doctor sexually harassed so many athletes that he'll be in prison for the rest of his life.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    "Never believe that anti-Semites people like this person are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites people like this person have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

    Jean-Paul Sartre

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (16 children)

    Yeah, putting cameras in glasses is a really stupid idea

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  • [+] -25 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    People hitting other people because they don’t like whatever legal activities the other person is undertaking, that’s stupid.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    You would have fought for the confederacy because it was legal to own slaves

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  • [+] -24 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    No? I just don't think filming in a public place is wrong. Why would it be? No one has been able to provide a reason.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago

    The reason it's wrong is because the device filming is sending data to police and corporations, who frequently abuse the law. People do not have a problem with you using any other camera, such as a phone or camcorder. The problem is the specific device, not filming in general.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago

    Why do you assume it is only happening in public? Since it is hidden cameras, in glasses, they can be recording anywhere (and even if the user hasn't asked them to record explicitly, they are probably sending data back to their servers anyway - we know they have been doing that with microphones for literal decades already).

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    People have said: facebook analytics, ICE tracking, and a general discomfort with being 'seen' always. You won't accept any of these because you are a corporate tool.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    The first two seem like reasonable concerns, but like, people have eyeballs. When you go out in public... people are seeing you. If someone has a photographic memory and the savant ability to perfectly replicate what they've seen by drawing it, would you take issue with them? Obviously an edge case, but those people technically also exist. Their cooperation with authorities to me to share what they've recorded is the issue you would take.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe privacy in one's own home ought to be a legal right, but I don't understand extending it into a place where that's functionally impossible on a number of levels. I've been recorded plenty where I live by people pulling out their phones. While I do feel some level of tension from that due to the current state of our government, I don't think that public recording on a fundamental level shouldn't be a allowed. Hell, even in secret, sometimes people have security camera systems around their living space and the camera's "reach" into public spaces. Also I've secretly recorded conversations I've had as well for legal and employment security reasons.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    As a matter of strategy, I do not care about edge cases. Irrelevant.

    Secondly, phones differ from glasses because they're often kept in one's pockets. Allegedly, they can't see through clothes. And while you can pull one out any time, it can be socially impolite to.

    Thirdly, the presence of phone cameras (and microphones) everywhere is not something I'm taking for granted anyway. Is it really a good thing that we have that?

    Fourthly, we already have rules about public conduct. You can't just brandish a gun at people, for instance, no matter how 'harmless' this act might be.

    Fifthly, if ruthlessly banning all cameras period was the only way forward, and it was better than the alternative, then I would accept that. You wouldn't (I imagine) because you're thinking about personal freedom over community health.

    Sixthly, if we're talking not about you and me, but me and Amazon, then my country is my home, and Amazon needs to get the fuck out of it. Surveillance by authorities is obviously what I care about the most.

    Anyway, I tend to speak pretty tersely when I'm soapboxing, so don't take it personally. I hope you have a good day, mate.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (6 children)

    Anyway, I tend to speak pretty tersely when I’m soapboxing, so don’t take it personally.

    I try not to ever take it personally. I only get annoyed if insults or character attacks are the only thing a person has to post as its intellectually boring. I don't find discussing my flawed character interesting other than maybe for context for further good faith discussion. You can be as mean to me as much as you want as long as your responses have substance otherwise, and I appreciate the substance of yours. Its rare.

    You wouldn’t (I imagine) because you’re thinking about personal freedom over community health.

    This gets at the core of the issue yes. That would be correct. No one chooses to be here and we are all individually expected to serve the whole or suffer. I feel a deep chasm between me and people who think that's perfectly fine or good, which is most people.

    I don't think individuals owe the collective anything. I in fact think the collective owes the individuals.

    I know there are people like myself as well and I similarly sympathize with them. So this isn't a selfish "woe is me". Its a sense of injustice that anyone must bow to social sources of power of any kind on any "moral" ground. Individuals don't owe the world anything, the world has more responsibility for the individual's existence than vice versa, the world should take responsibility for the individuals it fosters the birth of.

    I'm probably not be misanthrope, but I might be a "misallist".

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    the world has more responsibility for the individual's existence than vice versa,

    I... cannot parse any meaning from this.

    How does the world take responsibility for its individuals if its individuals refuse to take part in anything?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (4 children)

    How does the world take responsibility for its individuals if its individuals refuse to take part in anything?

    That isn't what I said, in fact that seems like a pretty bad faith interpretation, though I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's some kind of psychological defense mechanism or really poor reading comprehension, rather than deliberate manipulation of the conversation.

    What I was getting at is more of a guiding principle for how society ought to operate, rather than a strict mandate of how things must be. And in reality, if we did operate in this way things would likely function better than they do now, where the individual is expected to sacrifice to the collective. Having to kowtow to the cultural, social, & moral norm demands of the mob for your survival or comfort is a curse born of collective conservative thinking.

    A sufficient portion of people naturally want to contribute. I would even count myself largely among them. Helping people feels good, solving problems feels good. However, I deeply resent that it is expected of me. That I owe anyone anything. Further, if you have a lazy slob that wants to stay home and get drunk/high all day and not work: society should let them, and support them. Forcing that sort of person to work for a living does nothing actually beneficial for society anyway and they never choose to exist. We collectively don't have the right to demand anything from them.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Mate, I was just asking for clarification.

    if you have a lazy slob that wants to stay home and get drunk/high all day and not work: society should let them, and support them.

    I feel like you don't understand what I'm asking.

    Imagine that everyone was doing that. Everyone wants to get drunk and high. Who is supporting them, then?

    I imagine you think I'm doing some reductio ad absurdum thing, but I just don't understand how this is tenable.

    Like, you're suggesting that society shouldn't expect anything of anyone, but it must, otherwise there is no one to support the drunk guy.

    How can the collective support anyone if the collective is not expected to exist?

    I'll raise the stakes on this: what you're describing is fundamentally anti-taxes. I don't care if you pay your taxes or not, this world view of yours is not accomodating of compelled financial contributions. Billionaires who have stolen our money and are hiding it in little safety deposit boxes would be unobligated to return it to us. This is, obviously, a profoundly conservative stance to maintain.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Imagine that everyone was doing that. Everyone wants to get drunk and high. Who is supporting them, then?

    Its an irrelevant question because this isn't what would happen. I would go so far to say that we'd even still have centralized services, its human nature and its efficient. And if it did somehow happen it still wouldn't matter: a system of enforcement would barely hold things together anyway in a society of people who insist on being lazily drunk/high all day. People who authentically want to be that way are rare.

    That said, if it really magically came to be: So be it. It'd functionally be the end of humanity and I'm more or less ok with that. I'm a soft anti-natalist. I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't be that sad if the alternative is a continuation of what currently is (capitalism) or some kind of collectivist authoritarianism.

    I’ll raise the stakes on this: what you’re describing is fundamentally anti-taxes. I don’t care if you pay your taxes or not, this world view of yours is not accomodating of compelled financial contributions. Billionaires who have stolen our money and are hiding it in little safety deposit boxes would be unobligated to return it to us. This is, obviously, a profoundly conservative stance to maintain.

    Taxes are largely meaningless to an individual without an earned income or land. Taxes can still be a function of a society that operate with the ethical north star I've described. Accepting taxes would just be the contract one signs when they decide they want to work for additional money on top of a UBI/welfare/whatever. At least ideally.

    As for billionaires, they've effectively stolen the power and responsibility from the collective in the current system. I was describing of the collective with their leveraged wealth, exploitation, negative extenalities of their business, excessive political manipulation power, etc. While they are themselves individuals, the collective owes them only the lack of an expectation to work while staying comfortable, not their outsized wealth based influence over the collective. And since they now wield the actual power they are morally culpable for the state of mass individual suffering. In fact, they're essentially often responsible for depriving other individuals through their political activism of "economic bootstraps" and the like. They're almost always literally ideological enemies to my perspective, with perhaps only a handful of exceptions.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm a soft anti-natalist.

    Okay, real question, think about this from my perspective for a second:

    Why would I give a shit about anything you have to say after hearing something like this?

    As a matter of strategy, a very good phrase, I don't take opinions from people who are societally suicidal.

    When I talk about bolstering and reinforcing a strong community, perspectives like yours are exactly the kind I'm talking about pruning. Society cannot suffer your intellectual poison. If you want to die, do it on your own terms.

    My only expectation of you is that you will live, and that living means something to you. The only thing you can do is disappoint me.

    And also, don't film people who don't want to be filmed unless they're cops.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    I'm about to clock out from work and I wont have access to this account until Monday morning. I may or may not respond to you after this, but I am curious enough that if you have something notable to say I probably will.

    Why would I give a shit about anything you have to say after hearing something like this?

    I don't know you so I couldn't say. It sounds like you shouldn't if you are an incurious person or intellectually fearful person.

    I don't care about your virtue though. Why should I? We will never meet in person. We don't need to respect each other here, that isn't why we're talking still. We're here for the discourse, no?

    As a matter of strategy, a very good phrase, I don’t take opinions from people who are societally suicidal.

    Strategy to achieve what? I'm advocating to make things better for individuals. Conscious beings. However, the collective, society, human civilization, none of these things are themselves conscious. Why do you care about these concepts over the conscious individuals materially contained within them?

    When I talk about bolstering and reinforcing a strong community, perspectives like yours are exactly the kind I’m talking about pruning. Society cannot suffer your intellectual poison. If you want to die, do it on your own terms.

    I never said I wished to die. At least not in the sense that you probably think. I already exist, me dying does not close Pandora's Box, it cements the the fact that to live at all is a horror and a tragedy. Conscious mortality is fundamentally disturbing.

    I'm sad that I have ever existed because I'm doomed to face death and suffering, but mostly the former haunts me. It haunts me that my loved ones will one day die, some already have a long time ago and it still disturbs me on a fundamental level. I'm also horrified at the prospect of bringing more conscious beings to suffer the same nightmarish fate of being brought into existence strapped to a metaphorical conveyor belt ending in death and oblivion.

    My only expectation of you is that you will live, and that living means something to you. The only thing you can do is disappoint me.

    Because I will continue to live or commit suicide? Or are you saying either or? I'm not entirely clear one what this means. As paradoxical as it sounds I don't legitimately know if I'm capable of suicide. Its strange to even think about given my sheer terror of death itself, but also yeah... death will happen eventually, why not rip off the bandaid? I really don't know what is the rational choice. Perhaps I am a hypocrite in this way.

    If our axioms are really fundamentally different from mine, then perhaps there is no reason for us to continue. But if any of the questions in this response to you has you reconsider anything there might be something interesting here to talk about.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago*

    I protest against this for the same reason I would protest against the government flying tens of thousands of drones around the city to track every person's whereabouts and location history. Facebook gives the police unfettered access to their information. It's like a Ring doorbell, but dumber looking and it moves around.

    If you're sitting next to me with these fuckass glasses on, then you are giving the government live video feed of me. The only difference between this and a drone that's personally following me is that technically, this doesn't violate the Fourth Amendment because the government isn't the one sending a mindless drone after me with a camera, Facebook is. It's only technically not a violation of my right to privacy, in the same way that deporting people for saying "from the river to the sea" is only technically not a violation of the First Amendment.

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