Nothing like arguing socialism and imperialism with people who don't know what either of those words mean.

AI is built on the unprecedented theft and exploitation of the intellectual labor of the creative working class by greedy capitalists.

If AI really was a free resource, then maybe that part almost makes sense. It's losing billions per quarter, it's not free.

“helps everyone make things” instead of having to rely on skill and expertise and therefore makes everything equal,

everyone else is catching up”.

In both of these statements it sounds like they're saying, "the AI is smarter than me, and I'm stupid without it."

AI...at least how it's currently being deployed and marketed...is the ultimate expression of Capitalism. They are stealing the labor of others, and leasing it back to the public, for endless profit...all while destroying the environment and undermining the working class.

Ah yes, aristocracy. That's why artists and writers are known for being loaded.

Debating with a conservative is like playing chess with a pigeon. They just knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board and strut around like they won.

People who argue in favor of AI art are, at best, talentless hacks.

I've been a software developer for a long time. If that asshole doesn't think working 16-18 hour days for months on end while sleeping under my desk because I literally didn't have the time to go home and come back constitutes hard work, well, he can fuck right off.

genAI is a “free resource” (“it’s free for me to use at work”)

i.e. literally not free, it's capital the boss allows him to use while on the clock while he works for a wage.

LLMs take the intellectual labor of billions and convert it into a form that can be privatized and commodified so capitalists can charge for access. It's the enclosure of the commons extended to the digital realm.

So is mental gymnast a bourgeois or proletariat form of labor?

It’s literally a bias distribution device, owned by the wealthiest capitalists to have ever walked the earth

GenAI is anathema to socialism

You're wasting time arguing with a troll. Tell him AI is copypasta for lazy tryhards and offer to buy him a coloring book since it's essentially the same time. You can even offer to hang the pictures on the refrigerator when he's done coloring it if he stays inside the lines like a good boy.

(know what's funny, no one ever colors in a coloring book and says look at this "art" I made. Children are smarter then AI bros.)

Ask him the question, what does he contribute to such a society as he envisions this AI will bring? And how does such a system combat the need for more data while destroying the means to get more clean data for the data set?

This falls apart for me specifically because Generative AI isn't a closed loop system and it's use.of "shared ideas" is by force or by deception, which doesn't make sense in a socialist or communist society.

Let me guess, they're a college freshman.

Ok, that person is dumb as rocks, but hear me out....

In a post scarcity society, where livelihood is not tied to labor, the training and output of AI may be socialist.

Copyright, trademark, etc exist solely to protect the profitability of labor and capital. In a world where that is not required, the free sharing and reuse of ideas is socialist.

It can't exist today. And there are lots of other problems with how we're doing AI. But on some level, the fundamental concept of limitless sharing and reproduction of ideas is definitely socialist at its core.

Art is Imperialist.

• My ass it is. Giving any degree of power to the commoners, which is what art does, is anti-Imperialist if anything. If anything, AI, which is actively taking power away from the commoners, is the Imperialist thing.

These people walk among us.

Wow.

Imperialist huh? Just wait until Unga Dunga hears that about his prehistoric cave drawings.

I can entertain a good faith argument that being able to make art while other toil is privilege.

There is no good faith argument that using the plagiarism machine is socialistic, or that it’s anything but privilege as well. You are making “art” while the actual artist toils at their craft

If we have UBI and share the output of everything everyone makes
and if the artist consents to their work being used in the training
and if we get rid of copyright/etc.
and if we solve the environmental issues
then MAYBE I'd be OK with that.

One of those situations where you want to reply, but you just drop it because it's pointless.

I'm not trying to defend any of this person's arguments, but "art is imperialist" weirdly has something to it.

Empires love art. I mean i do too, don't get me wrong. But brutal imperialist regimes are tied to a lot of artistic flourishings. It's mentioned in The Dawn of Everything as a really common historical pattern which hasn't had much good scholarly work.

The musician and political scientist John Maus also talks about how music always reflects elite power structures - under capitalism music is a commodity, earlier it was to glorify god and the church, etc.

I think you can't study history without realising that there is some kind of connection between imperialism and art.

We democratized misinformation. God bless.

Those fucking AI ghouls believe the technology "liberates" the commoner from the supposed "elitism" and "gatekeeping" of the arts and some sciences by means of stealing the technique and style of creatives. They also happen to be parroting Hitlerian talking points, as it happened Hitler was a frustrated failed painter.

His argument was literally that

don't bother, the "texts" are called bad faith.

https://kbin.earth/m/anime_irl@ani.social/t/2998356

Enought internet for today...

The talk of "opensource everything" will probably fall apart when they realise the tech they all use to do it isn't opensourced. Most aren't even openweighted.

People who use terms like "labor aristocracy" are fake leftists, and are almost always like to fetishize workplace injuries, that forever disable people. I can only wish the same happening to them.

Completely detached from reality.

Don't call it philosophical jargon though, because that isn't philosophy. It's just delusion masked under oxymoronic neologisms.

"Labor aristocracy" what the fuck

Least insane tankie.

Well, I suppose if we collectively owned together the means and access to said AI, and nobody would own or be able to claim ownership over it beyond the public domain, I could see this argument perhaps work.

As it is, it’s just another theft by the capitalists aimed to oppress us all, cheat us out of our collective knowledge and published works. The technology is useful and could be made sustainably, but the drive of profit over sense and reason fucks us all equally in this one shared planet.

I hate that it has come to this, when just a little bit of more sense and taste, responsibility, we could have made this a public domain good equally available to all, via public libraries or such offering compute or whatever. And ran responsibly and sustainably with realistic limits and scale.

It didn’t need to be this big of a pig dick in our asses. It was a deliberate choice by those that have the power and the means to make those choices over everyone else.

So in the real world, that’s bullshit.

In an ideal world, it may have been even good.

It's important to understand that trash people are usually liars.

That provocation aside

Socialism by definition is democrarization of means of production. If AI can do everything, and everyone has acess to AI, its a perfect socialism. Thats Star Trek like utopia, right?

I do wonder if some of this anti ai sentiment is a psyop to keep the proletariat off the tools and away from ai while the bourgeoisie learn to use them to consolidate power.

And with this recent news about Nvidia inflating the price of their chips by paying/guaranteeing neoclouds to take them makes me even more sus

The last computer revolution had to be distributed because the Internet wasn't good enough yet, but this time they can be ahead of the curve gobbling up all the hardware so they can decide what you can do with these models.

I imagine another world where openai stayed open and Nvidia stayed a consumer company and everyone just has their own little box that can order their shopping or whatever

At the end of the day, these models are compressing all knowledge into something much more accessible, and knowledge is power, so it would be a smart gambit to limit access and spread fear..

Watch out. Describing yourself as “leftist” on Lemmy. Brave choice.

Most open source models do come from China.

Pointing out there there are artists and programmers ... who are all actively being harmed both by the theft of ideas and labor

I’m particularly incensed because I’m as leftist and anticapitalist

Bro is as anti-capitalist as Benito Mussolini