It is weird isn't it.

Why do they make it so bad?

I imagine half of linux users could make better automated update rules in their cron.

So many better ways.

So why are they making it intentionally bad?

... Sabotage from Microsoft employees who hate Microsoft?

... Part of a larger Embrace Extent Extinguish tactic, where they've already embraced the Linux Foundation etc enough, they're ready to extinguish Windows, already having sufficient monopolistic total-control hooks in Linux???

What are they up to? There has to be a reason it's so bad. There has to be a reason they go out of their way to make it so bad.

It surely can't just be the effects of The Corporation, the hierarchies and compartmentalisations and bureaucracy of the structure where they don't understand (or even perhaps do understand [and maybe have seen Kevlin Henney's excellent talk on clean code vs enterprise programming] but) can't do anything about it, can it?

What are they building in there? We don't get to see, we don't get to know, just trust them, they know best when and how, and so you are not allowed to change it.

We are not doing that any more.

At least it tells you how long it'll take before it decides to SIGKILL whatever is holding the shutdown sequence.

Alt-SysRq-i, u, o

I don't have time for this shit.

(X time / 1:30) but the second time will be extended indefinitely for some fucking reason.

My always plugged in HDD with bees on it does that. 1 minute to shutdown at least because there's always some kind of extend read or dedupe that need a sync.

... I brought this upon myself so I don't have to complain.

Yes but no, u can in config file of systemd change timeout to 5,10 second or other number of seconds which u wish before it will kill it

Why can't it say what the job is 🧐🧐🧐

Windows cannot shut down because Bill still wants to keep watching you to see what you're doing.

Windows cannot shutdown because there's a Windows open.

In most distros shutdown is a symlink to systemctl.

I just use poweroff.

i dunno I just normally do sudo poweroff.

Reminds of a couple [(brilliantly delivered, poignant)] lines from the movie Sphere.

"I hope it doesn't have any feelings."

"What happens when he gets upset?"

What?

sync ; sync ; sync ; shutdown -h now

Or nothing!

why use many word when few word do trick

Just alias whatever to "off"

I just pull the power cord and let it figure it out

I think doing just a poweroff might leave some services in an unclean state. I think systemctl poweroff make sure the services are shutdown cleanly before powering down.

I bought a new mini PC the other day that shipped with windows 11. Before installing Linux I thought "I'll just boot into windows to make sure the hardware is all correct".

I got as far as the windows welcome screen and thought "it's actually just going to be faster and easier to install Debian instead of going through all this windows bullshit"

Or my old windows 10 machine would wake itself up in the middle of the night to run updates that the group policy wouldn't even allow it to download without my permission and then just sit there. If I hadn't fallen asleep yet, I'd notice the monitor light up the next room and get up swearing at Microsoft until I tracked down where the wakeup timer was set and disabled it. Only to find it re-enabled after some updates.

Fuck Microsoft.

It was never safe to turn it on in the first place

Or just poweroff, one word not two

"please shut down (this is sarcasm)"

I used it when I was watching movies to fall asleep to but did not want to use the battery. You can specify a time with /t before the shutdown occurs.

Yeah, you can even throw a /f in there to force close all apps so it will kill everything and go nighty night. I used to use it with /t command if I wanted to download something while I was out but not have the PC run all day.

That's not the best way to turn your PC off but hell half the time I just murder mine by holding down the power button anyways. As long as you're not being crazy shutting her down in the middle of some data operations you'll be fine.

I like shutdown now because it feels like I'm reprimanding my PC

I enjoy the backpack detection mode they have on laptops to make sure it turns on, overheats, and drains the battery anytime you take it somewhere you'll want to use it unplugged.

(It was an older cranky thing and deserved rest - or to be taken out back and shot.)

Or gifted something like GNU+Linux, BSD, OpenSolaris, 9base, GNU+Ironclad, GNU(+Hurd), KolibriOS, etc, and given a new lease of life for another decade or two, and unlikely to ever suffer like it suffered under windows ever again..

For most people, especially work computer/laptop users, making the update happen by default on restart or during sleep hours does a lot to keep the pc updated, because they would otherwise never do it themselves. There is a somewhat large minority of users who complain about such behaviour, but these are mostly people into computers anyways and can update their stuff anyways.

But the biggest gripe is the horrid implementation of the start menu power buttons in windows:

• update and restart: mostly works as you would expect - updates and boots the pc
• update and shutdown: updates the pc, and instead of leaving the pc in shutdown state, many times it just boots the pc again, working like update and restart
• restart/shutdown without updating: non-insignificant chance of it doing the update anyways

It's nice to have the choice.

One of my systems [that is actually in use], I've not run an update for near as long again as how long it's been since I rebooted it, and have not even hot-patched it, nor upgraded anything, ... uptime says: "08:07:28 up 2687 days, 29 min, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00"

(And it's a gentoo... And I love upgrading long neglected gentoos... ... though that's maybe an order too far, that long. A couple years, fine, fun, but less than a year away from 3000 days (plus another grand or two). LOL. But still, the freedom to choose to do that... is nice.)

... Just before clicking Reply, I hear Richard Stallman's [paraphrased(?)] words echoing around in my mind... Either the user controls the software, or the software controls the user at the behest of someone else.

But you don't need to restart Linux for updates most of the time, basically just kernel updates, and those aren't often done more than once a month or so, less for fixed point release distros

The problem is how they install the fucking updates.

"OMG IT'S PATCH TUESDAY!!!!11111!! NEEED TO REBOOT IMMEDIATELY RIGHT NOW I MUST FORCE CLOSE ALL THE OPEN APPLICATIONS WITHOUT SAVING ANY WORK, THE USER GONNA APPRECIATE THAT"

Y-

Isn't it crazy that you need a physical workaround for your operating system?