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[–] 95 points 3 months ago (19 children)

Capitalism turning electric vehicles into a horrible, unproductive, ugly symbol of right wing fascism is wild as shit to see in my lifetime.

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  • [–] 51 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    Car manufacturers promoting fascism are sadly a thing though. Ford loved Nazi ideology and let's not even mention German brands.

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  • [–] 34 points 3 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    ... oh ... oh dear, oh no.

    That's... no. No, don't say that, VW, dear god.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Tbf it wasn't VW, it was a Top Gear joke

    Also Berlin to Warsaw in one tank is trivial so it wouldn't be something to advertise anyway

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    It kinda makes a lot of sense I feel that they'd fit together. You have a form of transportation that is dangerous enough that requiring government licensing is generally agreed to be desirable, meaning that if its the primary option, a government can effectively take away a person's ability to participate in public life or make a living, and easily justify it on safety grounds. Cars are expensive, so a government can both funnel money to its partners in private industry by promoting them, and subsidize them for the populations it considers "desirable" as a means to seem like it has created abundance and luxury (see how how the VW bug came to be for example). And, a society built around cars is one that tends towards physical separation and isolation between people (because of space inefficient infrastructure and relatively quick travel outside of densely built areas), which promotes distrust of others. Thats not to say that cars are inherently fascist or that most people that promote them do so to benefit that sort of ideology, but that if I was some kind of fascist dictator seeking to control a population, Id probably want to push them into buying and relying on cars.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Wouldn't fascists, to the definition, want a cohesive nationalistic society and identity? Fascists want a strong nation.

    The Nazis promoted cars because nobody really had a car and they were coming out of a depression, they wanted to pump up their manufacturing industry for economic benefit and it was also a good excuse to build manufacturing capability for war. Cars were therefore very nationalistic, owning a car was good for Germany and German jobs.

    Pushing for cars in most places does not benefit national industry, and pushes money and jobs offshore.

    I feel like cars could only be potentially seen as a fascist tool if one were to ramp up national production of cars and tariff or ban imports of cars from other countries

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago

    Seems to me that it's much easier to create a single cohesive nationalistic identity by destroying every other place where people can find identity. Which often involves groups of people interacting and finding ways to work together.

    Bit like how people with few real life social connections are much more likely to fall into parasocial relationships.

    Also a bit like the isolation step before the abuse starts.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 months ago* (6 children)

    I wish to say that while electric cars are better than ICE cars for the environment, their lifetime emissions especially if required infrastructure is taken into account is really high, and they aren’t as “green” as car manufacturers make them seem. It’s just an inefficient use of energy and space that requires massive amounts of polluting asphalt per person using that mode of transport.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    This bullshit has been thoroughly debunked many many times.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Interestingly, the specific article cited is more making the case that all passenger cars are bad, and we'd be better off with e-bikes, transit, and walkable cities. i.e.: I don't think hes saying 'EVs are worse than ICE," which is where the 'lifetime emissions' line usually goes. He's saying "fuck cars, EVs not excepted."

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Did you even read the article, because no.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    I did. That is the one thing the article said without citing a source. It is a common anti-EV talking point and like the person you responded to said, it has been debunked. On top of that, most of the time the environmental impact of transporting and refining oil are not taken into account.

    https://www.ucs.org/sites/default/files/2022-09/driving-cleaner-report.pdf

    It's kind of a shame, because overall I agree with the point of the article. Increasing the ability to use bikes and improving public transit are way more efficient, but EVs are a good option in areas where those are not currently viable.

    Are EVs perfect? Hell no. Should we throw the baby out with the bathwater, though? Battery technology is getting better. Batteries that don't use high impact resources like cobalt are becoming viable.

    Sorry for a bit of a rant, but sentiments like this are hampering progress

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  • [–] 45 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    Had to look up the Edsel to see what a shifter in the middle of the steering wheel would look like.

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  • [–] 26 points 3 months ago (10 children)

    On the next car I design, the shifter will be located in the trunk. Just to keep things interesting.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    The only thing nuttier might be door release handles under the floor mats.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Nah, but the crash after which four people burned to death while talking to the 911 dispatcher because they couldn't open the doors happened just outside my city.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    I've been in cars with electronic doors and the emergency latch is always super obvious, brightly coloured, and in one case glowed in the dark. For some reason Tesla feel the need to hide it.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    I wish we had more variation in car designs but I suppose it would make licencing difficult. I'd like it if we could drive with foot pedals, push down to accelerate and twist left and right to turn like how it works on an aircraft. Then you could drive hands-free.

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  • [–] 29 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    More dangerous than the Pinto, too

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  • [–] 22 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    The thing the Pinto was famous for, its fuel tank being in the rear and exploring, only killed 27 people according to the NHTSA. So pretty low bar.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    Ford also voluntarily recalled 1.5 million of them and addressed the fuel tank issue that caused the problem.

    "Fixing" the cybertruck would involve offering refunds scrapping them.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    All that lithium sitting in storage lots, wasted. Tesla could save the CT with some sort of body kit conversion that tears it down to the frame and rebuilds it as a more traditional truck. It’ll still not be a great truck, but better than letting all those batteries rot.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago*

    The frame is unfortunately a piece of poorly designed garbage too, even ignoring the Whistling Diesel torture test. And you can't make something that isn't a cybertruck using it, because:

    It's not a traditional frame with a body built on top. It essentially is the cybertruck.

    They could (but won't) design a vehicle that isn't ridiculous and offer cybertruck owners a rebate on trade in. Yank the batteries, motors, and anything else that can be reused and scrap the rest.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    We used to have standards for our vehicles

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    This is actually really funny, because Ralph Nader literally started his activist career pointing out that they didn’t in 1965.

    The book, critical of the automotive industry, argued that many American automobiles were generally unsafe to operate.

    Auto manufacturers were eventually forced to add seatbelts and protection for roll-overs.

    Nader’s book was cited as the reason to create what became the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

    When the original bill was passed,

    Speaker of the United States House of Representatives John William McCormack said the passage of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act was brought about by the "crusading spirit of one individual who believed he could do something: Ralph Nader.”

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    He also had to modify the corvair he claimed was unsafe to cause it to do unsafe things... Nader is a piece of shit.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    Oh totally, Nader is the piece of shit here…

    In response to Nader's criticisms, GM attempted to sabotage Nader's reputation. It "(1) conducted a series of interviews with acquaintances of the plaintiff, 'questioning them about, and casting aspersions upon [his] political, social, racial and religious views; his integrity; his sexual proclivities and inclinations; and his personal habits'; (2) kept him under surveillance in public places for an unreasonable length of time; (3) caused him to be accosted by girls for the purpose of entrapping him into illicit relationships; (4) made threatening, harassing and obnoxious telephone calls to him; (5) tapped his telephone and eavesdropped, by means of mechanical and electronic equipment, on his private conversations with others; and (6) conducted a 'continuing' and harassing investigation of him."

    Nader, on the other hand, literally took the money he won for GM’s harassment and intimidation and put it into a consumer protection organization.

    Then

    He went on to lobby for consumer rights, helping drive the creation of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the passage of the Clean Air Act, among others

    You’re fucking delusional to pretend he was the bad guy in this situation.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Whoa, dude, personal attack much?

    Two things can be true. The car manufacturers are massive pieces of shit as most corporations are, but also Nader is a piece of shit...

    He picked a target and fudged the data until it said what he wanted. Just because he was doing it to promote something good doesn't make it right.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1972/07/21/archives/us-car-study-disputes-nader-on-corvair-safety-charge-in-65-us-car.html

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  • [–] 29 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I know I shouldn't judge people without getting to know them but every time I see a cyber truck, I immediately think that the owner must be a gigantic douche canoe.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    by the time the cybertruck started delivering, all pretense of who its maker really was was gone. no longer could you think of him as "just the electric car guy who was in the MCU that time and likes posting memes." It was ABUNDANTLY obvious that he was a fascist boot heel. i can see any tesla on the road but the cybertuck and the model Y and rationalize that someone bought it without knowing, or sold it at a steep loss to someone who just needed a car. but the two newest models in the lineup? those directly funded fascism

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  • [–] 23 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    Fiero wins again!

    It might sometimes be on fire, but unlike a cybertruck you can put it out!

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Man I LOVE the fiero... And I hate that I do.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    I daily one, I know just what you are going though.

    Man what a wonderful pile of pontiac shit it is.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    You daily a fiero? Do you do the oil changes yourself? Which engine do you have? And did you or any previous owners change the gear ratios?

    I love the fiero's of people who know what they are doing with them. If I win the lottery I would get one and have it converted to electric.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I drive a 85 Gt, with the V6 but have 2 others as parts cars. No other owner has changed the ratios as I have standard transmissions in all 3 of them. I do most of my own work, oil on a fiero is no issue. Most recently I hit a deer and just finished changing parts and getting a new windshield in it (and added too many deer whistles).

    I would like to convert one of the parts cars to electric, but the costs are kinda messed up.

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  • [–] 19 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Like so much over the past decade or so, I really thought it was a joke when I first saw one.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe because it can't survive a trip to the carwash

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Who could have possibly foreseen this?

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Shhh!

    What about datacenters in space??!! 😮😛!!!

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  • [–] 17 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Probably because the are so noticeable, but I see 2 or 3 of them on my way to/from work. Hard to tell them apart, but that is a lot in the 20 miles I go.

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  • [–] 17 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    They tend to be concentrated in my experience. Big tech hubs have a higher concentration. I see a lot of them around Seattle for example.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    I wish I didn't have to see one almost every time I drive somewhere. They are such a standout eyesore that it feels like I see them constantly.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    I think they are very impressive looking iconic cars in a vacuum, like DeLoreans. Everything else is really unfortunate about then, but imo the eyesore part largely comes from the -very justified- cultural baggage and pretty much that only.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    Without the cultural baggage, yeah, they are interesting looking from the side and front quarter angles. But the back side undeniably looks like a trash can or dumpster. I was behind one yesterday with a pink/green hueshift wrap. When I was in traffic behind it, it just looked like I had a green dumpster in front of me lol.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    Nah they're ugly af.

    If you wrap them (like you should), then you can make them look cool though. Some of my favorites that I've seen are bright pink, yellow, and various wraps covered in decals.

    Without wrapping them, they look like scrap metal on wheels.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    I'm terrified of them they're basically mobile knives. In an accident they could do so much damage, especially anything involving pedestrians. Musk has been caught faking safety details also.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Well now I get to laugh even harder at the suckers who bought them.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    See way too many of these ugly shit-boxes in Vancouver.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago

    I saw a swasticar in Stavanger the other day.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago
    [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    Thank you, BYD.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    How common are these in the rest of America? I see them pretty often here in SF but assume it's just a techie Elon stan thing.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    I'm not in America, but they are fairly rare where I live (Canada). Like if I go for a drive in traffic on a commute, I maybe will see one or two at the very most. And it's usually the same ones that I am seeing when I do see them.

    I mean the market for a vehicle that's >100k, looks like the truck you drew as a child when you were asked to draw a truck, that has almost zero utility and almost certainly has to be awkward as fuck to drive and park due to its width and size, I mean that market is right next to zero. My seven year old is pretty into them though.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    I mean, Tesla employs a ton of people in þe Bay area. Þere's a Tesla factory in Fremont, isn't þere? Þere must be more Teslas per capita here þan anywhere else in þe world. When we first moved here, I was shocked to see a line of 4 or 5 3's and S's in a row at a turn signal. And Cyberturds, soooo many. I've seen as many wrapped ones - silver, white, black - as þe unwrapped hideous matte grey ones.

    I don't þink þe Bay area is at all representative of þe rest of þe US. Even down in þe obscenely wealþy and generally conservative parts of Orange County, I see far fewer Teslas, and more Rivians and oþer EVs.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    I see one a day in Canada. Owners bought them before they realized Musk was a Nazi but they can't sell them because no dealer will take them on trade-in. Many for sale on used lots, they just sit there, not rusting.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    You wouldn't know if from all the dumb fucks near me who have one.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago
    [–] 4 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    It's bad... But the Pontiac Aztek was a thing.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    But the Aztek was the first crossover. Part car, part SUV. The world didn’t know they wanted it yet. Now almost every vehicle is either a truck or a CUV. I can’t see what is going to be redeemable about the CT. Maybe electric pickups will take off among the Tradies, but CT wasn’t even first there.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Didn't it get a redemption ark with Breaking Bad?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    I don't know if being given to a character to prove how shitty his life is can qualify as a redemption ark.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    [laughing in DeLorean]

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