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[–] 109 points 4 months ago (1 child)

And they want us to feel bad for pirating media

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  • [–] 44 points 4 months ago

    You wouldn’t steal a car.

    I would if the manufacturer had the right to come take it from me at anytime without any compensation.

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago

    Piracy is a responsible, meaningful response to ongoing investor-driven enshittification. Investors are hell bent on reverse robin hooding the economy and they’ll keep at it until it’s no longer profitable to do so…

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  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago

    Oh the irony:

    ...Yes I could open it in my browser to avoid this (and the ads)

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  • [–] 51 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    He isn't wrong. The last game I pirated was Escape from Butcher Bay, because it wasn't on steam.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Convenience is a huge factor, Valve has clearly gotten that.

    I still pirate a lot of media, even though I pay for streaming simply because my own "service" isn't as crap. Many people will happily pay for good service, not for the constant enshittification they throw at us.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    Same. With a dockerized *arr stack and NZB360 I don't have to worry about where something is streaming, what platform currently nas the license, what login I need, blah blah. Just search, add, it's ready to watch jellyfin->kodi rpi->tv. No streaming tracking for recommendation algorithms or to sell info to data brokers.

    On one hand, I also don't have to worry about finding the disc, or getting it at a store (if they have it). There is an experience to that kind of search that is lost, but damn the convenience of this setup is nice.

    I would pay a decent amount of money—even the $150-250 cable TV used to cost for that hosted by someone else. Though, only if it was ad-free and tracking free.

    I realize that's not how capitalism works, and can never without he internet as it currently is set up.

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  • [–] 22 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    I think a thing this highlights is a moral line. With piracy now being easier and ubiquitous, and a clear alternative to orgs monopolizing and ignoring their user base. I think the one thing they are overlooking is the moment someone does it once. The moment they install something like stremio and realise how effortless it is the org has lost a user. Not even because of cost, but because they have taken advantage of the user...so its fair game to take advantage back.

    I used to eat MacDonald's...usually took the kids say fortnightly, and one day i just didn't because it got crap and expensive. One you step over the line and they lose you, they lose you.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I used to pirate, don't anymore.

    1. I was young, it was convenient, and satisfying. Eventually, I relented to the idea that I was doing it more for personal reward than for any kind of "fuck the establishment" message.
    2. I got a good-paying job, and felt the satisfaction of buying a good game on sale with my own money.
    3. I still maintain, as do most people, that tons of publishers are scummy and anti-consumer, but I also built more positivity towards developers that don't exhibit such behaviors.

    Even if Steam were to somehow go down for a month, by now I've learned about other storefronts and methods of purchase that provide a place to move to. There's a devoted centrism to the way people consume most media franchises that basically guarantees they can flip prices to infinity, control purchases, and never suffer consequences, and piracy absolutely feeds into that; helping them to paint themselves as victims to policymakers while they rake it in.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    The thing about piracy is that it's not a binary choice. Personally, I think there are times that it is unethical. But if you already paid for it, and then publisher takes away your right to consume it, then I have no ethical qualms with pirating that media. If the publisher puts an account-linking requirement or requires any sort of internet connection to play, or some sort of invasive DRM that impacts your ability to play or enjoy that media, or removes or paywalls features, etc., I have no problem with pirating that media. If the publisher no longer makes it available for purchase, whether at all, or simply in your region, I have no problem with pirating that media.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I have no issues with that as a solution to wholly broken purchases. I think those are incredibly rare though, even among digital games.

    I do think a lot of Denuvo’s opponents tend to exaggerate its effects on the game’s playability, when the findings regarding cracked copies have leaned different directions in performance depending on testing method. Most people can play Denuvo games no problem, even offline.

    Online requirements I certainly sympathize more with if it’s a game you like. I enjoy Hitman WoA, and wish other people would try it, but a fair few avoided it for the online requirement. I hope for legislation that ensures, someday when IOI is packing up its last employee and shutting off servers, they can also hand out the keys to an offline mode. But legislation like that (eg, SKG) doesn’t come about from pirating. It takes effort and vocalization.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    I do think a lot of Denuvo’s opponents tend to exaggerate its effects on the game’s playability

    They don't. There are in-depth analyses confirming it's effects published all over the web.

    Most people can play Denuvo games no problem, even offline

    I tried to play one last week (someone in my family purchased it) and it did not work offline. Very big problem, and not acceptable.

    if it’s a game you like

    Doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's never acceptable.

    someday when IOI is packing up its last employee and shutting off servers, they can also hand out the keys to an offline mode

    LOL sure they can, but they usually don't. There are decade-old games at this point with Denuvo still active .

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  • I was traveling across the us without a car about a year ago. Long story. Was stranded, pulling a long night til the next bus instead of sleeping rough. Only place to get fluids nearby was a McDonalds.

    It was painfully expensive, and genuinely felt like I was being fucked with and screwed over when I ordered. I just wanted a cup full of caffeinated sugar-water and someplace warm to sit. It sucked so fucking much. It was fucking unpleasant. Eventually I hydrated, pissed, and just left to wait outside for the last few hours.

    I looked through food. I couldn't justify paying those prices for that shit. It genuinely didn't seem like food prices. I couldn't. The next day I found a more reasonably priced 7/11.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    Fuck Sony.. Period.

    Vote with your money and time. Don't give them any.. if you do.. then can't complain.

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  • [+] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    And with hardware prices being what they are, people aren't going to be investing in PC gaming or new systems. The time is right to gouge and limit freedom.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    lol anyone dumb enough to realize this won’t be limited to pc and continues to support sony deservers the bullshit that’ll be coming

    sony is going to exploit the fuck out of them

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago

    if buying something does not give ownership then piracy is not stealing

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  • [–] 33 points 4 months ago

    Digital storefronts are fine. The actual problem is the lack of consumer protection in console (and mobile) ecosystems.
    On PC, the classic mitigation is piracy.
    But on consoles that seems to be not an option, so there is no way to fight back console company overreach.

    As a consumer, just sticking to PC gaming is the obvious solution.
    Valve is better than Sony because it can't just prevent consumers from going somewhere else. Gabe Newell is just as much a greedy bastard as other big corp CEOs. But judges forced him to allow refunds (btw, GOG has a 30-days-no-questions-asked refund policy without being forced to). And he cleverly price-gauges the game devs with his massive cut rather than the consumers. Combined with the threat of delisting games that are available cheaper in other shops, he secured his quasi monopoly.

    As usual, vote with your wallet - while you still can.

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  • [–] 24 points 4 months ago

    I agree that it's not a price issue because I wouldn't mind paying inflated prices if that money went to the workers. It would be worth it, in fact. But the corporate entities that get that money while the workers get laid off.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

    The ps5 debacle is a bigger problem, alongside the Stop Killing Games Initiative.

    Edit: SKG is a good thing*

    I hate to say it. But the general sentiment will lead to crackdowns on VPNs because they are the only thing between us and corperations for ownership.

    Legislatures are already trying to stop us from having privacy, but the corporate lobby tied to the privacy lobby is a deadly situation.

    I am lucky enough to have my media where i want it to be, but i am so nervous now that the general public is getting involved - i have a number of friends who would never have asked about this kind of stuff buying hardware.

    Im not really sure where that leaves us.

    But fucking god damnit. Im sad that it has gotten us here.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    Nintendo blowing up about ROMS didn't help a fuckin' thing.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Then they turn around and offer a subscription service for you to stream ROMs from their own software/hardware… you can’t make this shit up.

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    [–] 10 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    A few years ago I bought Star Wars squadrons in steam. It hasn't worked in years (I never made it through the single player story.) I never understood why. It was not my antivirus, it was not my VPN. It wasn't even my OS. I used Windows 11 briefly (I originally had it on windows 10) and it still didn't work. I am on Linux mint and it doesn't boot up.

    Now recently I bought RoboCop Rogue city on steam. I originally had it pirated, but on Linux mint it had a hard time booting up. I thought buying it would fix that.

    Nope. It did not. Now I spent 40$ on a digital paperweight.

    If we pay for something. We have a reasonable expectation for it to work.

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I hate to be that guy but did you try changing which version of proton its using? I know for some games you gotta change it for it to boot properly.

    I do agree though it should just work, but you gotta remember unlike consoles PCs are made of many different parts and not all agree with eachother. Developers can only test so many configurations.

    I remember when no man's sky came out, so many people had issues while mine booted and worked properly. Thankfully steam does offer refunds.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    To add on to this, sometimes it's better to switch from the linux runtime to proton. Most of the time when I have problems with a game running, it turns out they tried to support linux but for some reason the compatibility isn't there like it is with proton. At least I assume it's compatibility because they had to have tested it on some systems at least.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    If someone would make a gog/bandcamp for TV and movies, I'd use it. But the only way to view either is through DRM-encumbered physical media or rent-like payments (e.g. streaming and DRM-encumbered "purchases"). I don't want my files like that, thanks very much.

    So I actually pay for far more music and games than I do TV shows and movies. Funny how that goes.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    It's closed platforms the issue. You buy an expensive machine, pay extra for the disk drive and now they will stop making disks, you have no option.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    Okay we'll fix this one by making an open source software that loads all the files into a 7zip before its runs the downloaded content. That way it has to compile everything before it runs essentially breaking it down before it gets, "repaired," in a 7zip which holds the, "files to be compiled" but can still be ran separately.

    So, it would have no choice but to export everything to a 7zip.

    If someone made a web extension it could be used to do it to movies you purchased on streaming sites and it would rip the movies and compile it into a digital format the, "copyright," would be broken by removing traces of copyright by coding said program to remove the encryption but also having it set to identify any company logos so it'll convert the video into loading whatever you ripped into the format you want And it would remove logo's or identifying markers from it.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    While I agree for the most part, pricing is absolutely an issue too (an ever increasing one). I and so many others in a similar situation have a lot of time but not a lot of money, it doesn't matter if a game has 2000+ hours of playtime, we just can't afford $70+ as a once time purchase.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    I remember when street fighter 2 was released for the SNES. Our store had it at 64.99 and that's in 1990-something dollars.

    Games have always been expensive, especially when hyped and already popular

    But I still have an SNES and SF2 and can play it whenever I want. No chance a licensing server rejects me or a lic is flagged invalid in the future.

    That's the difference. I know as long as the hardware works, I can always use that game.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago

    Well there are games where I absolutely cannot justify paying for unless there is a sale or waiting for it to go on discount due to being super old.

    However I still don't pirate them just because they are priced too high if they are steam because I know eventually I will still have easy access I just need to be patient.

    Cae in point this summer sale a game that came out 2-3 years ago I finally bought because it was 50% off its original $100 price tag (CAD). Finally felt it would be worth it.

    Never pirates it became I knew steam would provide easy access and an eventual sale.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Been feeling this lately with HBO, there app has gone to shit and I'm debating just pirating "the wire" instead of going through the service that we (my partners parents) already pay for

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    For me it's also a price issue, after my streaming more expensive year on year at some point I just stopped and paid for VPN and Usenet.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I mean let's be real, it's both

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    The only reason I don't own any of the new systems and games are the prices. That's literally the only reason

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  • [–] 42 points 4 months ago (42 children)

    Don't know why you're quoting Gabe in this instance, Valve is selling the same "licenses" Sony is, revokable at the whims of the publisher.

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  • [–] 130 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    Valve have a long history of ensuring that games purchased are still downloadable for customers who purchased them even after publishers have pulled their game off the store, or of providing refunds.

    Sony has done neither and that’s a core part of the problem.

    Part of this is Valve’s agreements with the publishers.

    Sony could easily do this but they’re poisoned by the music and movie industries.

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  • [–] 95 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah for all the shit steam gets, I bought that now de-listed Deadpool game like, however many years ago when it first came out (it was okay thanks for asking) and recently started a family sharing thing with my partner on steam, who was surprised to see that not only did I own it, but she could play it through steam's family share. Are they perfect? Hell no, but is Gabe right about this? Hell yes.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago

    I bought a game and similarly forgot about it for years, and when I finally got around to playing it there was no discussion board. Come to find out the game was completely delisted, felt like I was in a ghost town, but it was still functional!

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    I've got a few like that too. Apparently The Last Remnant got a remaster which for some reason didn't get a PC release. despite the original being on PC. That sucked, but whatever. Then they removed the original from Steam.

    Fuck you, Square.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    As far as I know, Sony has the same history for games. Valve does not sell movies and TV.

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  • [+] 3 points 4 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    until they don’t

    why would you trust Sony with anything?

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  • [+] 0 points 4 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    the entire point is Sony can’t be trusted to keep any of this in the future given their current behavior

    the facts of their current policies mean nothing

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago* (8 children)

    As far as my account goes, even when publishers remove games, I still have access to my files.

    This is crucial for community led projects that revive game servers, like The Crew, Hawken or Blacklight Retribution.

    Sony is remotely deleting stuff (or more accurately, threatening to do so)

    Just to clarify: I still prefer buying on GOG but the catalog there is slimmer. Steam so far has been more aligned with their users' rights.

    The fact that a company loses a license to something in a game disallows them to keep selling them, not stealing them back from their customers.

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (7 children)

    even when publishers remove games, I still have access to my files.

    Your personal experience here is not relevant. Everyone lost access to their files when Valve allowed Sony to pull Concord from Steam.

    Or when Valve pulled Total War Arena, The Day Before, The Culling 2, etc.

    Sony is remotely deleting stuff

    Sony is not deleting anything. They're just revoking your access to it.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    You can still download the client side files for those games after de-listing.

    And it's not Valve that chose to pull down those games. It would be quite the power play for Valve to be able to tell other companies their games are no longer able to be sold.

    Sony is deleting purchased movies from people's libraries. It's the same as when Ubisoft deleted the Crew from people's libraries, so they are no longer even able to download the client files after delisting.

    Delisting and deleting are not the same thing.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    We are not discussing delisting. We're discussing games that were removed completely.

    And it’s not Valve that chose to pull down those games

    And it's not Sony that chose to pull down these movies.

    Delisting and deleting are not the same thing.

    That's exactly right.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    If you know there's a difference then why are you saying customers who bought those games no longer have access to the files? You should know that's not true if you know how delisting works on Steam.

    I don't know if it's Sony's choice or not but I know your statement about how it was Valve who chose to delist those games was incorrect.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    So you’re conflating delisted Steam games with items being permanently removed from libraries on purpose?

    I'm not conflating anything, you are. I was discussing games permanently removed. If Concord is still accessible then I stand corrected on that account. What about the other games I listed?

    I don’t know if it’s Sony’s choice or not

    Sony does not control the licenses for these media. They have no choice to make.

    I know your statement about how it was Valve who chose to delist those games was incorrect.

    It would be, had I made that statement.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    Pointing out that Sony (apparently) making Concord unable to be downloaded again is not at all like how Valve lets delisted games usually still be downloaded by people who owned those games is the opposite of conflation. Conflation is when you say Valve is just like Sony when it comes to delisted games in that they both don't let you download the game files again even though that's false for one of those companies.

    Do you not realize what you said with these lines?

    Everyone lost access to their files when Valve allowed Sony to pull Concord from Steam.

    Or when Valve pulled Total War Arena, The Day Before, The Culling 2, etc.

    Did you think you named the actual publishers for those games this whole time and didn't realize you put it all at the feet of Valve? Did you not remember that you said Valve has the power to allow a publisher to delist their games or not?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Conflation is when you say Valve is just like Sony when it comes to delisted games

    If you're going to repeatedly attribute statements to me that I've never made in bad faith then I see no reason to continue this conversation.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Do you own concord on steam? Check again you can probably download the client anyway. I don't have it, but I remember for a brief time people were playing with community servers after it got taken down.

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  • [+] 31 points 4 months ago (10 children)
  • [+] 13 points 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago*

    valve (actually the devs) does not put DRM restrictions into most games. most of them don't work without steam because the developer coded it with the expectation that steam will always be there, and that can be fixed with the goldberg steam emulator.

    most games you can just download from ypur library, prepare it for goldberg, and it will work without steam

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    I have this mentality too so it's really weird for me to see so many people just blindly praise Valve. Corporations have great track records until they don't. Don't get too comfortable.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Not the same

    Exactly right, it's not. You're talking about delisted games, not removed games.

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  • [+] 2 points 4 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    Can't have what on other platforms? What second point?

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  • [+] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    because Sony is clearly absolute garbage...

    name something valve has done that's horrendously stupid and anti consumer...

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Fighting the classification of lootboxes as gambling. Sony is absolute garbage, but Valve isn't perfect.

    https://youtu.be/13eiDhuvM6Y?is=6S3VWl4DnKcaw3LQ

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    I buy games from steam here and there once it’s on sale but I don’t see it as a purchase tbh. You can’t own digital media that way.

    I see it as paying for access. I am paying for them to give me access from any steam computer with the benefits of having my saves in the cloud.

    That’s not worth $60-$100, but it’s worth <$10 for certain games.

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