If you’re going to send me the output of some LLM, do me a favour and just send me the prompt instead. Otherwise I’m going to spend as much time reading it as you spent writing it.
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The best way I have found to make sense of why some people are so enthousiastic to shill for AI, is to see AI as yet another product that preys upon people's insecurities. In this case it's maybe the worst insecurity of all: feeling like you're less intelligent than other people.
Taking that insecurity as the through-line, this kind of shilling makes perfect sense IMO. It's essentially a form of self soothing, saying "everyone is or will be using this, it's not just me!".
The only people who would use AI for creative work are those who are unwilling to take the time to become good at it or are incapable of doing so.
They're really after the money.
I'll grant that there will be people out there who also don't have the ability to notice that it's garbage being generated.
Where I do live, not only there is absolutely poor art education and appreciation, but there are people who don't care about the artwork -- mostly event and product advertisements on Facebook -- they'll handwave the damn thing as long as it delivers the intended message.
I use AI to help me write poetry in 2 ways:
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I have a thick accent and it helps me count syllables and determine what the meter will feel like most readers
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I feed it completed poems and ask it to analyze it for themes and metaphors to ensure that my meaning is being conveyed properly
Rhyming dictionaries and thesaurus.com for the rest
It works enough for my needs
Why are you being so rude? What do you get out of it?
If you need an LLM to tell you how to write then you’re a fraud and a hack. It’s a skill, get good or fuck off, if you want to learn then you have to fucking learn, otherwise you’re just a plagiarist who doesn’t know shit.
there are ways to implement LLM Generative AI creatively but it has nothing to do with what we traditionally perceive as writing fiction. It is more of text adventure interactive writing kind of thing and you still need to do much of everything while generative AI adapts it on the go. that's one of the few legitimate use cases that actually accomplish something that is hard to do otherwise.
Fuck that. Writing is hard in general, if you’re not willing to do the work then you’re not doing the work, doesn’t matter if it’s hard, if you didn’t write it then you’re not writing. No excuses. Stop handing over your imagination just because things that are difficult to do well are difficult to do well.
i don't think you understand what i mean and your comment has nothing to do with what i said.
I've shouted from the rooftops before many times there is nothing creative from AI writing. It just repeats the same terse, sentence structures! AI had never fallen in love, grieved, or inspired before!
to be fair - player piano is a great idea and there were composers who did stuff specifically for it - Nancarrow is the most prominent one. it's a completely different aesthetic and requires not trying to make it seem like anything it is not though.
Pointless sidebar: Westworld (Season 1) uses a player piano as a metaphor for AI.
And player piano is what they should have said. Don't besmirch electric/Rhodes pianos, they're awesome.
This is an unpopular opinion, but as someone who builds stuff from scratch, this is the same feeling i get when someone holds up a 3d printed item and goes “i made this”
3d scanning is actually a lot of fun. I had a stint in a museum and we were scanning sculptures for replica molds (because some bitches just can't stop firing ballistic missiles at our museums). However, fixing those 3d models in Blender afterwards was not fun.
That's an interesting take. It does beg the question: What is "from scratch?"
Does a potter need to go to a river bank to dig the clay he will make into a beautiful tea pot? Or is it still "from scratch" if he buys prepared clay? The question can apply to a woodworker. Does the use of power tools to make a chest of drawers less of a creative endeavor than someone that uses all hand tools to make the same chest? Do you need to fell the tree and mill it in to boards yourself to fit your definition?
Where does "from scratch" begin, and where does it end?
I don't know myself. I don't think anyone really has an answer.
What you do requires skills. And most people don't have hose skills. I perhaps view what you do as being a craftsman. You take things that others have shaped and then assemble them into something that is different and more desirable. And there can be craftsmanship and artistry involved by everyone along the way.
I was a toolmaker. I designed and built tools. I sat at my desk and designed the tool in a CAD program, generated tool paths in a CAM program. Then used CAM to create all the G-Code needed. I then sent the program to the machine. I loaded the code and fixtured the piece of steel. At the push of a button the machine did the work as I stood there and watched. Not much different than AI in some ways.
If one sets aside the ecological disaster that AI is for a moment, (and this is the biggest evil IMO). I start wonder if AI is in and of itself "evil" or is it just a tool we haven't mastered the use of yet. I honestly go back and forth in this. I don't like AI generated art that is passed off as "real", but I can understand and be impressed by the skills it took to manage the tool to make that art. I certainly don't have those skills. But I'm all for the AI currently looking at my MRI scans for signs of cancer cells that even the most skilled radiologist might easily miss at the early stages.
It's a fuzzy and hazy world. And the older I get, the less sure of the answers I thought I had.
I don't think that's wrong, but from the other direction.
They're both tools, and as long as you're open about what it actually means to use the tool and what you actually did I don't see an issue.
Sometimes 3D printing is as creative as printing someone else's design. Sometimes the creativity is a modeling and design problem. Sometimes it's a machine operation skill.
AI tools can be "write a book" or "draw me a cat", which isn't much , or it could used to do spot touch ups in a photo, or get feedback on a written work.
Doing something with or without different tools has different advantages and disadvantages, and changes the criteria that you judge it by.
Some people feel the same way about digital cameras or cell phone cameras. I don't think the device picking the exposure time and white balance makes it not your picture, it just means I'm not being impressed by your color pallet, but instead your subject and composition.
To me that's the least annoying part of AI at the moment. I'm open to the notion that you can be creative with tools that remove parts of the challenge, you just don't get credit for the challenge.
Not to be a serial contrarian, but I'd say what's being "shilled" as AI today is just as much AI as the AI of yesterday. Which is to say intelligent in the sense of "responsive to environmental changes", not "sentient or sapient".
Autocorrect, red eye reduction, and white balance correction are all different types of AI. So is the tuning function on most decent rice cookers. (Depending on the retouch feature you mean it actually could be from the modern AI wave. It started with images because humans notice a 10% gibberish rate in text, but we don't see a 10% error rate when removing a ketchup stain)
I don't think we're actually in disagreement, but I think in this particular threads context it's implicit that the intention of "fuck AI" isn't "fuck my rice cooker and its weight/heat interpolation function".
People feel that same way about any tool, and get a sense of dismissiveness towards people how use them. I usually don't care about the tools people use as long as they don't try to take credit for the part they didn't do. Whittling and using a lathe are different skill levels when making a table leg, and I won't be impressed by your radial symmetry if you used a lathe, but I can still like the table leg.
The biggest difference is that I don't think there's any generalized ethical issues with lathes that need to be addressed.
Getting upset about someone being open about using the tool, or even not being open about using it, is like getting hung up on questions of who gets credit for the symmetry of a table leg when the carpenter used a lathe powered by a live puppy grinder.
Ah, yes. The only bit of marketing terminology that has multiple high profile university research labs dedicated to it since the 50s.
literally no definition for intelligence that is broadly accepted
You're conflating human intelligence with what it means in computer science. We have no way of consistently and meaningfully ranking human intelligence. The intelligence being referred to in AI is not the same thing. It's not even comparing apples to oranges. It's comparing the abstract notion of a triangle to a rabbit.
You may as well say "signals intelligence doesn't exist because we can't define intelligence".
Calling things techno babble doesn't help you look like someone who knows what they're talking about making a distinction.
The "AI" retouching in my phone is not prone to hallucination. It predates the hallucination machines. It just does stuff like (mostly) smoothly removing things like strung cable in photos and that kind of stuff, or does some pretty splendid night time photography.
I hate to break it to you, but that's largely generative AI. You haven't mentioned your phone specifically, but the features in question are at least quite similar to googles magic eraser and night sight features.
Unless your phone is hilariously old, it doesn't predate googles use and development of generative AI.
In one sentence you say it doesn't hallucinate, and the next you say it "mostly" smoothly removes things. First, where do you think it's getting what's behind what it removed? Second, what do you think is happening when it fails to get it right?
The computational photography features are largely a machine learning model being applied to techniques used by traditional photographers.
If you want to use them, I don't care. Just don't pretend they're fundamentally any different than using Photoshop AI tools to do the same thing. It's not. You're using an AI based tool to do something that someone else is doing by hand. It's trained on a dataset pulled from every picture on earth ever uploaded to the Internet.
Your perfectly color calibrated hdr+ photo without any weird stuff blocking the sky doesn't get the same credit as a person who meticulously composited and exposed a set of film photos for those bits.
Yeah, so your phone is definitely using the modern iteration of generative AI for the features you're defending. By "hilariously old" I meant more along the lines of "2014". It is exactly what I was talking about when I was talking about smartphone AI features.
It kinda feels like your problem with modern AI is less the ethical issues and more the results you get from it, with the way that you're defending it in the use case you like by saying it's a different type.
As for your odd attack on an academic field: none of those things existed when the departments were founded. Those were all the names for the grants they proposed that led to them creating those things.
Why do you have a hard time accepting that maybe a term has different meanings in different contexts, and using that as the basis for your criticism is shallow compared to any of the other incredibly valid reasons to criticize how it's built, supported, marketed, used or advertised?
... You know literally nothing about the technology if you can only conceive of chatgpt as the baseline, or if you think that it started in 2022.
Chatgpt is based on GPT, the first version of which was released in 2018 and based on work done by Google from the early 2010s through their publicized works in 2017.
If you're so annoyed, why do you keep responding? I think you're just defensive about the AI tools that you like and want them to be somehow different from the ones you don't.
This made for a nice block list. Thanks!

Some of these fanatics are utterly arrogant greedy narcissists with no redeeming qualities at all.
If she was taking about just a proof read, then I'm okay with it. But I don't believe she is taking about proof reading. AI should be nowhere near the creative process.
If you need to proof read something you can do it with spell check in your weird processor and an understanding of grammar.
there's actually an entire subgenre of writers pretending to workshop story ideas with generative AI but actually trolling to get the most ridiculous responses. it works best with Claude because it create dedicated skills to make it even more stupid. Not everyone's cup of tea but sometimes it is funny when clanker attempts to make sense of some obviously ridiculous story pitch while the writer keeps pulling the rug from under it.
AI LLM hallucinations are incredible for creativity, but the people who just lean on them for the majority of it are lazy.
I read this as all glazers and I was wondering what this person had against glass installers.
Bruh, NPR had an interview recently with an author who is a fairly big name already. She was preaching the glories of ai. Like how do you fall so hard‽
It's the same thing in game development. Sure AI can actually use most modern game engines now and make an ok-ish game. It's not exactly inspired and without further human touches it's not going to be a saleable product.
Thing is that you can't even use it as a starting point because the code is such a mess that is impossible to use it as a baseline.
Somehow AI has replaced stack overflow as the even more useless advice forum. At least SO had amusingly rude comments.
Indeed, classic. AI isn't good enough for THEIR domain, their expertise, but for stuff they know NOTHING about it's somehow OK. Total lack of introspection and Dunning-Kruger effect.
It's like sitting at one of those old player pianos you'd put the rolled paper in and it would play the sing itself, claiming you are a modern Mozart. Despite not creating the piano, music roll, or ever doing anything special besides putting the roll in.
OTOH, is using electronically created music not art too? If you write your music and put it into FL Studio or something similar to "play" the music for you, is it not art?
I think the electric piano is a false equivalent here. Electronically created music is not the same as AI.
I have little issue with electronically created music so long as you actually created the music. As in going into the DAW and doing it yourself or inputting the music you recorded and doing touch ups. Whatever the case, it'd be hypnocritical of me to be against it, as someone who has created music using Musescore in the past.
Hell, I don't have a problem with some forms of AI ( not genAI ) in music, considering the latest vocaloid generation ( vocaoid 6 ) have come full circle back into using some form of machine learning to make voicebanks. Also because there are other programs that do similar things, but I can't fully trust a 3rd party voicebank isn't gonna be stealing another persons voice without consent.
I just happened to use that old piano you'd expect to see in a western movie because I had it on my mind.
I think it depends on the extent to which an individual influences the end result. If the paper roll is pre made and the individual is merely placing it in its intended place, then that is different from carefully arranging notes and effects in a DAW.
I don't care. This isn't Reddit. I am not on this planet to spend my time complaining about others.
I am here to have fun, and as an artist. I'd rather just enjoy my own journey than worry about somebody else's.
I’ve been running the Qwen 3.6 MoE model on my gaming laptop and have been using it to critique screenplays lately. It can’t write worth a shit, but it sure can tell me what’s wrong with my own writing.
It pointed out things like this dialog is too wordy and it ruins the joke, this story beat feels “unearned”, this character feels like a “vehicle for jokes”, this line is an “exposition dump”, etc. When I ask it for suggestions on how to fix the problems it points out, its suggestions are all stupid, but when I fix the problems myself, it no longer flags them in follow-up critiques in a new chat session.
Qwen has obviously been trained on a lot of screenplays and writing how-to books. For example, I changed the character names in a classic sitcom script, removed the series and episode title, and it recognized the writing style of the series and then even told me what episode it was. It also gives me the same advice that screenwriting books I’ve read preach, except it can point out specific cases where said principles are not being applied.
It would be better to have a human critic, of course, but finding a human who is skilled at writing and who will take the time to critique your work can be difficult. Your friends also may not give you honest feedback. Qwen will, though. It’s not sycophantic at all from what I’ve seen, and in fact, it ripped my passion project to shreds. After I fixed all the problems it found, though, it ended up being a much better piece of writing, IMO.
I think using a LLM as a tool to improve your own work instead of as a slop generator is the right way to go. I also feel better about running them on my own hardware and using about the same amount of power I’d use if playing a game instead while also retaining control of my data.
I think most creative people who openly use AI say similar things. Even with programming, I don't ask it to code for me - I ask it to review what I wrote.
OOP is just too arrogant and ignorant to even consider this.
LLMs are a useful tool, but not a silver bullet, and if it weren’t for the shitheads overhyping them and plundering the world for profit, we’d likely not be seeing this level of backlash.
Lemmy in particular is big on self-hosting Jellyfin and the like, and running an open weight LLM on a gaming machine you already own is in the same spirit.
I have wondered if I could use AI to write unit tests, it would be worth it because it's only a hobby project and I'm not going to do TDD otherwise. But I'm loathed to actually give the AI companies any money, especially for something that I could technically do myself, even though I won't.

Couldn't find one where it doesn't call OP a phony, but didn't look too hard.
i dont want to use AI to write cause it trains on anything and it may include some copyrighted elements.
I hate AI just like any normal person should but LLMs are reformulation and bibliographical research tool. If one field could use it right, it is the writing industry.
That doesn't mean it will write for you, of course.
I think "making" AI art is essentially the same as commissioning a painting - you're describing what you want to someone else and they're making it for you (although in this case 'someone' is a kind of highly-optimized plagiarism machine, but same kind of principle.) When it's done, you might "own" the result, but you didn't make it IMO.
I just gotta say, this is the widest gaps I’ve ever seen in non-downvoted and downvoted takes ever in Lemmy. Everyone is either nuanced about AI or 100% against it. For better or worse, I think all of us will have to use it one way or another. In cybersecurity, because the attackers use it and gain speed and exponential capability with it, we have no choice but to use it also (at least as a vulnerability scanning tool). I think we’ll all find ourselves in such a situation, where either our competitors or other workers use it and we have to use it as a tool to keep up. The horse has already left the barn on this one.
Lol, the bubble will burst before the slop machine gets to my line of work.
Same, it can't even do what the idiotic high schoolers I work with who've never had a job before and don't know how to read a clock can do, much less do it better or faster. I'm feeling very secure.
Using it sometimes sure. It's sometimes better than google at giving me answers, and it's great at troubleshooting dumb mistakes (or processing large amounts of code for things like security issues, but I don't do that).
I also have little doubt that ML as a whole will reshape the world much like the WWW did - we do have an awful lot of compute now that could be used for more useful ML applications. But as it's going, I doubt LLM's will go much further. More and more people are seeing past the insane promises and realize they're tools for some specific jobs, particularly once the pricing adjusts the use cases will likely be quite narrow.
Another post from this community makes it to All, and it’s another screenshot of social media where someone says “I observed someone using AI, so I shunned them.”
"If you're not using the plagiarism machine to rip off artists without having even experienced them yourself to claim credit as if its your original work, you're crazy"
"Why are people shunning me?"
Sounds like the correct reaction to people using AI. Good observation, no notes.
Yeah I don't want to associate with people who cannot think on their own.
Crazy right?
Sounds like you're an AI glazer yourself. The only proper response room a "creative" like this is to ignore anything they do in the future because its not their own work. AI is purely derivative, it has no imagination.
Shunning is the correct response to cogsuckers.
Are you just providing a text description for accessibility purposes? Thanks!
No one forced you to read it or post, you're responsible for your own feed. You can kindly fuck off if you're just coming in here to complain we exist.

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