Is there any actual proof of valve taking actions to limit competition or are they just popular because they have a good business model?
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When the 30% fee gets lowered prices won’t come down. The market has already shown that consumers are willing to pay for the games at the current price level. Publishers will just pocket the increased revenue, instead of passing it on to the consumer.
It means more money going to indie devs instead of Gabe's greedy pocket.
30% is what everyone charge right?
Literally no. Lol. But even if it was that doesn't change the point, everyone doing it doesn't mean it's a fair price
There's a cost to maintaining infrastructure, and EGS is laying off employees because their 12% cut isn't sustainable.
Stop defending billionaires, the infrastructure costs are a small fraction of the fees they charge
Seeing as Epic is losing money with a 12% cut, and Steam actually goes down to 20% if you sell enough units, your case doesn't seem particularly good.
Also, Valve is funneling a ton of money into Linux gaming, especially into open source software. That's infrastructure. And some of it is infrastructure that won't go away if Valve goes bankrupt or enshittifies.
Also, you're backing up someone who's unironically parroting propaganda from a billionaire monopolist (Tim Sweeney). Get over yourself.
The comparison to Epic (with a massively lower sales volume) is a bad one, because Valve’s sales volume is so much higher. Once you have a store up and running, the marginal cost of additional units sold in software is extremely low, so most sales are close to 30% of pure profit for Valve.
The entire Apple App Store costs $100 million a year to run, with revenue recently hitting $1.4 trillion, an infrastructure to revenue ratio of a fraction of a percent. That makes their 30% vig even more unconscionable than Valve’s obscene rake.
True, but that’s not the goal of this initiative. The people behind this initiative want to pay less for games.
It's not the gamers, it's a commission and there is a lot of misinformation on their website (it can be viewed in English). https://gameclaim.consumercompetitionclaims.com/
Also tweakers.net a Dutch tech enthusiast website had a good post about it, most of the commenters do not agree with this as well https://tweakers.net/nieuws/249010/steam-laat-klanten-te-veel-betalen-voor-games-volgens-nederlandse-massaclaim.html (Dutch only so you'll have to use a translator if you want to read it)
People keep forgetting that in the olden days, the left over cut for the publisher was about 40% of the game value, the rest went to warehouse, shipping, and the retailer all got something. The rough estimate left over cut for the developer was 10~15%.
Now a days as a developer you can sell directly to the customer through Steam, and you don't need a publisher or a network if you only sell on Steam. So that 10~15% cut went to 70% (till x amount of revenue and then it gets lower).
Next to Steam not being a monopoly and Valve providing all the other companies the blueprint for a success in the PC market, none of the competitors follows it, or compare to the customer service of Steam. And it seems that none of those other billion dollar competitors (Microsoft, Amazon and Epic) wants to invest in a solid platform to stand up to Steam.
I don't want to be a steam shill, but does the prevention of selling games cheaper (if this is true or effectively enforced) even do any good? I have over a thousand games on Steam, but I doubt I bought 10% of the games from them. Heck, the latest game I remember buying at release was Oblivion Remaster, and I got it from GMG because it was 17% cheaper on release day then on steam. This happens constantly.
If we are to objectively look at the problem, why would lifting this rule automatically mean games would be cheaper elsewhere? One of the biggest slogans in favor of Brexit was something along the lines: "of EU membership costing 350m pounds per week, we could spend it on the NHS instead".
We are paying $70 for games because of Steam, we could be buying them for $55! That **could **there is holding the whole thing up. And its not even real. Its a word on paper. Effectively today; cheaper games than on steam are available, where steam gets a 0% cut and it stuck with the bill of hosting and delivering the game for free. This is the reality. Consumers arent the ones crying here.
If there is a fight worth fighting, it is the one to be able to transfer digital ownership of game licenses. This is a fight we can take to everyone including Steam. This would be an actual win for consumers. Not bickering about something that in the end wont effect any consumer anywhere. The above is a fight between publishers and distributors...
I’m curious who’s bankrolling them for this one.
They are not the same as Noyb who actually are very transparent and actually « believe » in something : these dudes are closer to insurance claims chasers from what I read about them.
Also I love their Q&A that states that they don’t get money from this
No. The Consumenten Competition Claims Foundation is a non-profit foundation.
Someone is absolutely paying them for the action it’s literally 5 questions above and is Winward NL. And they go back to my ambulance chaser parallel since it’s just a company doing litigation finance.
There’s nothing showing links from those guys to broader financial interests but that would not be out of the possibilities.
A different FAQ item mentions Winward NL Limited is in the Cayman Islands, which is a really nice place if you would want to hide such links. But yeah, could also be a bunch of individuals just looking for some extra yachts (bonus irony if they buy them from Gaben's yacht company).
Indeed.
From their page (https://www.winward.uk/about) they are funded by Rocade Capital. Rocade Capital itself links to EJF Capital and Barings.
It all could be unethical gambling based on the last Epics shenanigans... Maybe the chances to get a jugement favouring them is now statistically higher than against them.
Why not go for a bigger company first?
Apple does the same thing with ebooks. When I put my book up for sale with Apple, the terms stated that I could not list it for a lower price at another store. So no, that is not a new form of price fixing.
Also interested to hear what other digital goods stores charge less than 30%, aside from Epic who definitely wouldn’t maintain that if they had the monopoly position.
Stichting Consumenten Competition Claims
“Stichting Consumenten … “ shit what’s the Dutch word for claims? Ah fuck it, let’s just switch to English in the middle.
Do these people think that packaging costs plus retail markup were under 30% of a game's cost when we bought physical PC games?
I love valve as much as any other gamer but I’m with Dutchies on this one. Valve has monopolistic policies
https://www.wolfire.com/blog/2021/05/Regarding-the-Valve-class-action/
This dev was trying to sell his own game on his own site. A single player game. No steam keys. Just a download. And got threatened by valve to stop or be removed from steam. Illegal since that’s NOT in the contract he signed.
That's their claim. They provide no proof.
I'm skeptical this wasn't about selling Steam keys on an external site for less than the price on Steam. Plenty of places sell DRM free versions of games at whatever price they want but steam keys can't be discounted on external sites. That price parity is only for steam keys though at least per policy.
Maybe if you read the goddamn article you'd know of one?
The foundation claims that Valve holds a dominant position in the market, estimated at around 85%, and is breaching competition law through so-called Most-Favoured Nation clauses. According to the complaint, these terms prevent developers from selling games more cheaply on rival platforms like the Epic Games Store than on Steam. This, they argue, keeps prices across the PC gaming market artificially elevated.
But if you go on isthereanydeal.com you will see a whole bunch of online stores that offer sales on games. They offer Steam codes too but are not limited to Steam, they cover many other platforms (including Epic).
(Those btw are all legit sites showing only sales endorsed by the game publishers themselves, they all sell new game codes. ITAD has a standing policy to only source from that kind of sales, strictly no key resale sites.)
So if you can get Steam games cheaper than are currently listed on Steam, and many games are also available on GOG which is DRM free... not entirely sure what this lawsuit is about.
Could you share an example of a deal that is less than on Steam? I couldn't find one.
It can import your Steam wishlist and give you tons of examples. 😊
Here's some: Civ 5, Disco Elysium, Yakuza 6, Borderlands GOTY, Outer Wilds, Doom Eternal.
You can also make filters that limit the suggestions to a certain sale percentage (eg. 50%+ off), or to a max price (eg. $10).
I looked at the examples you gave and in all of them, Steam has the lowest price . I added an example of Doom Eternal

Civ 5 is 30€ on Steam and 2-3€ on other Stores.
Outer Wilds is 23€ on Steam and 16€ elsewhere.
There may be regional differences for either of us.
Literally all of them are Steam keys. Do you think that if you buy a Steam key from another site it's somehow not Steam that profits?
I think you might start to understand what this lawsuit is about haha.
All those stores just sell the game on steam, so we're back to steam being the cheapest. This is why the lawsuit exists.

Limited time sales is not what's being talked about. Those are allowed.
It's the regular pricing. A game listed on steam needs to make up for their 30% cut. Some other sites take a smaller cut. But multiple game companies have found that trying to list their games on non-steam key selling websites, for less money (because they don't have to make up for as big a cut) are getting threatened to have their games removed from Steam for doing so. This is well outside any clause in Steam TOS, and would be illegal even if it was covered.
But multiple game companies have found that trying to list their games on non-steam key selling websites, for less money (because they don’t have to make up for as big a cut) are getting threatened to have their games removed from Steam for doing so.
Has any of these claims been proven yet?
They're still working their way through the courts.
One of them is over two years old, though, so it's not just a clout chaser blowing hot air based on absolutely nothing.
One of them is over two years old
Which only proves my point. They allegedly do, and we yet to discover if they actually do it or Epic, Ubisoft and whatever another publisher are lying. 2 years to prove if Valve was abusing the system and still nothing out there to confirm this suspicion.
I suspect that is really tough to prove and that is why eventually case will be dropped due to lack of evidence.
A court case with zero evidence doesn't last 2 years...
Have you seriously never heard of the Nintendo v Palworld cases? Those are still going on after 2 years despite Nintendo's claims being complete bullshit
Court case with undeniable and sufficient evidence also doesnt last long. There is more to the story than "they do it/they dont do it"
But claiming they do before it has been proven is dumb.
Defending a company with multiple unrelated entities suing them over the same thing, including non competitors, before they've been proven to NOT be doing that thing is very stupid.
Blindly believing those claims before they're proven in court is very stupid.
Let the courts make their ruling.
with multiple unrelated entities suing them
How do we know they're really unrelated? A lot of the lawsuits are in the US, where bribery lobbying is very prevalent, and the lawsuits brought forth by private entities could be backed by Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Epic, etc. under the table. Hell, any publisher/developer involved in the ESA is by definition not "unrelated".
Until these lawsuits are fully resolved, nothing has been proven. All we have are claims and speculation at the moment.
I though that Steam required content parity e.g. you cannot create a cheaper bundle for your own storefront and not sell that exact bundle on Steam. But they have no issue with you generating keys on their platform and either sell those off for cheaper yourself (Humble bundle) or give them away.
Their TOS require non sale price parity with other stores that sell steam keys.
Nothing else. They'll still threaten to delist your game for seeking it cheaper on sites outside that scenario, hence the multitude of lawsuits.
They won't. They're here to blindly defend a multi billion dollar company despite it actively costing them more money.
You right here. Blindly defending them.
You know perfectly well what I meant. Do you have proof that prices on Steam were actually artificially inflated?
Also, claiming I'm blindly defending them? I'm asking for hard evidence and telling people to not blindly believe claims and speculation until proven in court. How is waiting for verified evidence "blind"?
Pure hypocrisy on your end
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