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submitted 5 months ago by to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
 
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[–] 206 points 5 months ago (23 children)

Cash, the value be dammed. Im not trying to sell fucking gold. Im not a fucking merchant

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  • [–] 84 points 5 months ago (13 children)

    If the gold is in an accepted standard form, such as krugerrands, you just need to find a precious metals dealer. If it’s just a pile of gold, then there’s a lot of hassle. I imagine ingots of the sort national gold reserves hold would be somewhere in between.

    Shifting a large quantity of gold may require a non-optional explanation of its provenance, with “I woke up and it was just there” or “a genie gave it to me after I did an online quiz” not being adequate, and an inadequate explanation resulting in its forfeiture if not more serious legal hassles. With a large pile of gold and no good explanation, you may be reduced to smurfing small pieces of it to different dealers, moving around a lot and avoiding the attention that such a pile would inevitably draw.

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  • [–] 30 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    People like Al Capone would have a few things to say about unverified sources of wealth in any form. Pretty sure if I show up at a car dealer with a briefcase of bills it'll raise a few questions too.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago

    Yet another way society is biased against the poor. A rich guy shows up with a briefcase full of money and nobody bats an eye, it's just another day. A poor guy shows up with a briefcase full of money and then suddenly everyone starts asking questions, and if he doesn't have good enough answers he might get thrown in jail.

    What if I mowed a rich guy's lawn and he gave me a really big tip? No, I don't remember his name. No, I didn't keep the address. It was over there somewhere, go that way, it's the big house with the mown lawn. You'll find it, just keep looking...

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    US law requires any cash transaction of $10,000 or more be reported to the IRS/Treasury Dept. to include the federal tax ID # of both parties/entities, and the deposit accounts involved.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Structurization.
    I know someone who worked in a software company that developed algorithms and systems for banks and gambling to detect these.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Yep.

    Literally pulling out $9,999 instead of $10,000... that in and of itself is a crime, even if you're not actually doing anything funny with it.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Not necessarily, it's a crime to deposit 9999 instead of 10 and not report. When I worked at a bank anyone who knew what they were doing and deposited 8-9k in cash got the form. People who found out and then did anything else? You get a form. People who walk out? They get a surprise notice from the fbi later.

    Basically if the bank thinks you might be close we just give you the form and you don't get to say no anymore.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    a large pile of gold

    That depends as well. Gold in specimen and nugget form can be worth considerably more than its value by weight and there’s plenty out there chasing these. These are not hard to move at all.

    But yeah, there can be difficulties trading it and it’s generally subject to taxes. Quite often you need to be licenced as at least a fossicker if you’re selling unrefined gold as a prospector.

    That’s without the pain in the arse process of separating it from impurities.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I'd choose gold. AFAIK most all money laundering rules deal with cash.

    Even if a geine were to give you 500 tons of cash or gold, some governments may have a problem with that and choose to redistribute it.

    Choosing gold makes the value much more liquid in my opinion.

    Not to mention that gold doesn't rot (unlike USD). In today's economy gold is probably more value-dense (as in, a pound of gold is worth more than a pound of hundered-dollar bills).

    Currencies also come and go but gold stays. If you're thinking long-term, gold is the vastly better choice.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Depending where you are you might not be able to put a that amount of cash in your bank, although it’s easier to use.

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  • [–] 83 points 5 months ago (23 children)

    Bills weigh 1g, and 1g of gold is >$100, so I’m going with gold.

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  • [–] 55 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Around $140/gram currently for those curious

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  • [–] 26 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    So then, however disgusting the thought, if they do make the trump $250 bill then that would be the only case where taking the cash is the better deal (putting ease of use for gold vs bills aside)

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  • [–] 32 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    But the cash is more liquid. Selling $70M worth of gold is a hassle and would invite unwanted attention. $50M in cash you can spend right away.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    Cash in this day and age is a huge pain in the butt. Sure, you can get groceries and some tech. But buying a house or even a car or pay for services? Impossible to very inconvenient. Even just paying for everything in cash will be a problem if you ever get audited. You'd need to launder the money somehow and at that point you can also take the gold.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Another critical difference:

    If you got a million dollars in cash you were obliged to pay taxes upon receipt, and if you did not do so and you try to deposit it, you are going to get flagged for a tax audit and subject to criminal charges.

    If you got a million dollars in GOLD you don't pay taxes until you sell it. So you can sit on it for years and then sell it and deposit it and you only pay taxes at that moment and have not broken the law in doing so.

    Money is income, Gold is just gold until you turn it into money.

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  • [–] 11 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Good point, but after a while someone would still want to know where the gold came from. Unless you sell it so slowly that it'd be barely useful to you.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    "after a while someone would still want to know where the gold came from", five minutes after the cash has been exchanged, you'll be quickly forgotten about. You don't live in a damn csi episode

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    I do, however, live in the real world. Where anyone giving you a decent price for your gold is subject to AML laws.

    Cash is honestly easier for your average person to deal with. Either way you're either going to pay a ton of taxes or you're going to hide everything. Gold is great if you have a trustworthy buyer that's not operating legally, in which case you can... Turn it into cash. Woops.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    You’re saying I should open a car wash?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    The point of laundering is to wash money acquired illegally. Meaning you still have to pay the taxes.

    If the 500 KG of cash lands on your lap legally and you can somehow prove that, you can just declare it as income and pay the taxes. If it's drug money or something then you'll have to launder.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago*

    IOUs based off of gold are a literally significant part of how many modern fiat currencies started.

    What in the hell do you need to spend $50M on, right away?

    Not to mention gold being around 1.4x more valuable per weight.

    Those weights of either gold or currrency are going to require a vault or armored car and a crew of people with a forklift to either store or hold or move anywhere.

    You're gonna be bringing both to a bank.

    Suddenly showing up with or trying to spend or sell those volumes of either gold or cash is going to get you a visit from the IRS, Secret Service, and FBI, and maybe CIA.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago*

    wolframalpha says the gold is worth about $22m more, but it's a no-brainer. gimme the cash ($50m). the extra 'value' in the gold is not worth the extraordinary measures needed to deal with it.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    I agree: you'd probably pawn the gold off to some billionaire for some nominal amount less than its face value. (Would the government let you as a private citizen just sell them like $70 million in gold?) I'm assuming this is legal and in-the-clear, and it doesn't matter if we assume it was created out of thin air.

    I say "less than" because the buyers know you probably lack connections and just want it gone ASAP so you're not robbed or worse. Still, whatever percentage hit you take can't be anywhere near the 40% difference between the cash and the gold, and you'd probably dump it so quick that the investment opportunity cost wouldn't matter.


    Edit: Although if we assumed this was secret but entirely legal (like I somehow had $50 million but nobody but the revenue service knew), then I could maybe stomach the $20 million loss in exchange for less attention. Still, you'd be drawing a lot of suspicion trying to get that 500 kg of $100 bills into an account (or multiple) before you get found out.

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  • [–] 64 points 5 months ago* (21 children)

    500kg of gold is $72.6 million as of current market value.

    The image shows 100 dollar bills, so let's assume the 500kg consists of just that. That would add up to ~$50 million (~1 gram each, adding up to 500.000 bills).

    Gold increases in value. The dollar is decreasing in value and Trump is making sure it's going to tank as soon as possible.

    Gold is worth more and is a wiser investment over time so I pick gold, with delivery please and thank you.

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  • [–] 15 points 5 months ago (14 children)

    Good luck liquidating 500kg of gold without someone taking a decent cut. Gold doesn't always increase in value, it's a highly volatile commodity and atm is highly over speculated. More than likely whenever trump dies or leaves the office the market will correct itself to pre-pandemic pricing.

    When people who don't understand what fiat currency is get scared by geopolitical instability they buy gold. Whenever those geopolitical instabilities absolve themselves they sell.

    You'd probably be better off taking cash and investing it into index stock then taking the time and money to store, transport, and sell that much gold. There's a reason why billionaires are building Scrooge McDuck vaults and swimming in bullions.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    I would just lock it all up in a vault. Why would I need to liquidate it? I can take loans from the bank indefinitely, as I have the gold as insurance. That's what billionaires do as well, to avoid taxes. They use their wealth in stock as insurance to take out loans, because on loads you don't pay taxes. But in my case I would pay taxes for the value of the gold, like a decent person.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    There is such a thing as a gold loan, but it's not really a good deal compared to even something like a HELOC loan. The interest rates are much higher, and they'll usually only loan out 50% of the value of the gold, and you'll have to hand it over to the bank for storage.

    The main problem with this is that you don't have an income or a way to make more gold like billionaires can with stock. So you would have to eventually sell some of the gold to pay the loan. Which would entail not only paying interest on the loan, but a 28% tax on the gold. You don't have a skeem like capital gains to lower your tax burden with a physical commodity.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    Take out the loan. Invest it into stock. Get another loan to pay off the previous loan and living money. Continue indefinitely. Problem solved. Make more money, without touching the gold. Invest everything extra you make into more stock.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Right, but for the loan amount you are going to lose 50% more than you borrow in gold. So if you want a million dollar loan, you'll have to give the bank 2 million in gold to hold as collateral. You're also going to be paying 10-30% apy on your short term loan.

    If you start with let's say 80 million in gold, you will only have enough collateral to secure 40 million in loans in total. Which at a 10% apy would occur 4 million in interest a year without accounting for any compounding interest.

    If you did this perfectly and did not spend any of the money you borrowed for anything other than paying loans, you would only be able to do this for 10 years.......not indefinitely. And that is giving you the lowest interest rate available.

    Even if you invested in stock that you made money on, that earnings would be taxed at 20-30% depending on how long you had it for. So you are paying 10- 30 percent in interest to invest in a profit that gets taxed an addition 20-30%...... It would be better to just have the cash.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    Ok, but… what if the bank asks where you got the gold? Or they ask if you have proof you came by it legally, and then the IRS notices you have a bunch of outstanding loans collateralized with an asset they have no record of you obtaining or paying taxes on the income used to obtain it.

    Like… with the cash, you just… spend it on stuff. If you need to pay for something not in cash, then just open a cash based business and overstate your sales.

    Or you could… just… list those things as unspecified income and pay taxes on it and not worry about slipping up and going to jail.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Where would you use all that cash? In my country you're not allowed to make purchases over 3k. Payments bigger than that are rejected and authorities are notified.

    I was assuming the prize was legit, which would also mean you'd have to pay taxes over it. Than you have it legally and you can use it to take out loans.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    That's my secret Mr. Stark... I'm always geopolitical instabilities

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  • I mean fair point..... But to be honest, it's more likely that another fiat currency replaces the dollar than it is for gold to become a standard again. Gold doesn't have any inherent value outside of some electronics, and it's incredibly inconvenient to actually trade with.

    I think if the dollar does fall off the map and the euro or yuan successfully replaces it as top dog, it'd probably be the actual death knell that kills off peoples gold obsession.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

    I think actually in the US you could file the gold under capital gains and get a better tax rate if you're willing to hold onto it for years.

    Though outside the US the USD are probably a wiser choice. Also if you plan on liquidating the gold immediately its likely subject to sales tax where they exist making it a much worse value proposition.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    Good luck liquidating 500kg of gold without someone taking a decent cut.

    If that decent cut is 95%, you’d get only 5%. Sounds bad. 5% of 72.6 million is … 3.63 million.

    Yeah, I’ll still take it.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    But I'm lazy and would just leave the gold in a closet rather than having to deal with selling it. And $50 mil is more than enough for me.

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  • [–] 40 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (7 children)

    What denomination are the bills and how much does each brick of gold weight? Cuz I mean, if the bills are high enough, like $5000s they might be worth more than the gold.

    Edit: The weight of the money doesn't matter as much as the denominaton here. A $1 bill weighs the same as a $500 bill, y'all. If gold is $145 per ounce, a 500kg pile of $500 or $1000 bills that weigh about 1 gram each is worth a lot more. If they are $1s, $5s, $10s, $20s, $50s or eveb $100s, take the gold. If they are $500s or higher, take the cash.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    A US $1 weighs 1g according to a random website I found on the Internet. I tested and it's close enough.

    As of today 2026/06/02, a gram of gold is worth about $140 assuming it's minted and the purity is known.

    That honestly surprises me. It means that gold and bills (assuming c-bills) are within an order of magnitude of each other.

    Worst case with bill denominations: half a million. Best case with bill denominations: 50 million dollars.

    Worst case with gold: $140/g less 10% worst case for verification and bulk buy discounts. $120/g ballpark. $60 million. Best case with gold: ~$70 million dollars upper bound for known minted purity.

    So gold has the highest potential return but also the highest overhead.

    I'd probably go gold. Even if I lost 50% due to overhead, I'd be able to pay my mortgage and my brother's student loans and for my mum to live in a nice place.

    Honestly, any of them would be a life changing amount of money.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    a hundred dollar bill weighs a gram and is worth $100, a gram of gold is worth $145. However you'll pay income tax on the gold profit when you sell to get your cash.

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  • [–] 35 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    But steel is heavier than feathers...

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  • [–] 27 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

    You do realize that if you take either the gold or the cash you're still roughly a billion dollars away from being a billionaire? At $72m you still have about 93% of the way to go before you hit even one billion. Elon is currently somewhere north of $700bn.

    I'm just pointing this out because many people don't realize how excessively rich billionaires actually are. Many still seem to think we're talking about cutting into people's rainy day savings when we're calling for billionaire's fortunes to get taxed. FWIW, nobody earns that kind of money.

    With all of the above said, if it is legit and comes with no strings attached, I will gladly take the ~$70m in gold (with approximately the dimensions of a microwave). Even if I have to pay taxes on it.

    While gold does incur a conversion cost when putting it in a bank account, the same is true for a large amount of cash (especially when it is in a foreign currency). And gold has an intrinsic value which only increases over time. Thanks!

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  • [–] 47 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Too metric. Can I get that weight in cheeseburgers please?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    3000 in weight.
    3500 in volume.

    But I would assume solid gold bald eagle egg metric is needed?
    290.

    Perhaps three fiftieths (6%, atm) of a ballroom budget?

    5 and a half hours worth of ammo for a vulcan gun?

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  • [–] 16 points 5 months ago

    Homie flunked the pound of feathers riddle one too many times

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