[blue]
If you could push a button that gives you a hundred thousand dollars but a random person dies, would you do it?β€―

[yellow, cautious]
Interesting thought experiment… intuitively, I'd say no, but it's worth thinking about… it's a genuine moral dilemma in a capitalist world: there's a dialectic between our desires and the common good…

MEANWHILE, BILLIONAIRES

[an orange guy in a suit is shown with a terrifying grin pushing as many buttons as possible at once on a table, slamming one of the buttons, and even using their foot to press an extra one]

https://thebad.website/comic/the_totally_hypothetical_button_thought_experiment

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[–] [S] 99 points 5 months ago (12 children)

Apologies to all the foot fetishists, I eventually gave up trying and thus have failed you.

Guess I have new anatomy lessons to grind. Shit's hard yo.

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  • [–] 65 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    You managed to create the most disturbing non-ai foot I've seen today, so that's nice

    Love the comics!

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  • [–] [S] 26 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    AIs have become decent at anatomy these days, haven't they?

    That's one job they won't take from us in the long term, finding new ways to mess up drawings. I'm always a step ahead.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I like that it's not a realistic human foot. Sometimes art should capture the idea of a thing rather than just the superficial image of the thing, you know? It has character.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    I'll keep that one in mind, next time someone criticizes my anatomy I'll tell them "son, it has character".

    Actually I need to repeat that bit to myself until I am convinced. Feels like a healthy mantra.

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  • [–] 76 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (10 children)

    Honestly, a billionaire would probably hire people to push the button for them.

    They'd minimize explaining what the button does, and then pay them like $100,000 a year to push the button 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

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  • [–] 31 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Why would they get payed that much? this is unskilled labor, they get minimum wage.

    That, or they hire an undocumented immigrant for even less. Extra bonus because they can't read the sign that explains the killing thing.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I was basing it off of an estimated $15 an hour minimum wage, which is pretty common in a couple of states, where there tend to be more billionaires.

    15 times 24 times 365 is like $130,000.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago*

    Oh no, that's what salaries are for. That way they pay them for 8 hours of work still.

    This should be celebrated though, because they get to go home early if all the work gets done.*

    .*The work is done when the billionaire has enough ** money.

    **Enough is defined as every particle of matter being converted into wealth for the god emperor formally known as billionaire.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Random person might include the billionaire though.

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  • [–] 32 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    You'd have to kill 10,000 people to become a billionaire this way. Obvious fact perhaps, but it's easy to forget how unnecessarily much a billion dollars is.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    You'd have to kill 10,000 people to become a billionaire

    You could have just stopped there.

    It'd probably still be true, recognizing that billionaires tend to indirectly kill at least that many just from the artificial scarcity required for their hoarding of resources and THEN you add the direct results of their specific actions..

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  • [–] 27 points 5 months ago* (14 children)

    More interesting (and more realistic) if it isn't a guarantee that someone dies if you push the button, but a probability.

    Would you push the button if it was a 20% chance someone dies? A 5% chance? A 1% chance? 0.1%? Is there a number where it's ok to push the button? If it was a 0.0001% chance, how many times would you push the button?

    Also, does it change things if you know that your button push resulted in someone's death? Is it different if it's someone standing right there? Maybe on the other side of a one-way mirror? What if it's just that you get a green light or a red light after you push the button and you don't have to see someone die or know who died or how they died?

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  • [–] 24 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Well, driving to work is basically that. Non zero chance someone dies.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    same could be said about taking a steamy shit on the toilet. 8-10% of all cardiac emergencies happen in the bathroom.

    sometimes you get the stinky fudge dragon, other times the stinky fudge dragon gets you.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Though the chance someone other than you dies from you taking a shit is pretty far fetched, and I'm not liking having to try to conceive of how that happens.

    But a lot of activities are this way. Getting on a ladder in public could kill someone, just breathing around other people could kill someone, etc etc.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Also factor in when they die. Maybe your action results in a demise after a period of time. Lung Cancer won't kill someone right after they puff a cigarette, so the cigarette baron may not consider it his fault in the sort term.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Yeah, that would be an interesting twist. 100% chance that pushing the button kills someone, but it might happen in 2 years or it might happen in 30 years. But, even if someone lives a perfectly normal life for 30 years, their cause of death will be this button.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago

    It isn't the "cigarette baron's" fault any more than the beer baron's fault or the parachute maker's fault. Some people are going to die if they choose to indulge in mildly risky behavior. If the scenario is something like this, everyone here will be pushing that button. Don't say you won't because you will.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    I'd say at sub-0.1% chances of killing someone, I'd press with impunity. At those low probabilities, they've basically just got hit by lightning at the same time I've pressed a random button.

    Granted I'd probably only do it whenever the 100K ran out, so once every couple years. Unless my investments die.

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  • [+] 1 point 5 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    such a low probability overall you probably up on the whole deal if you use that money to help other people.

    Depends a lot on how you're helping them and what you're doing with the rest. If you're spending like a typical American (or Canadian) you're doing a lot of environmental damage with your day-to-day life so you're killing people incrementally with that lifestyle.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    It sounds disturbingly utilitarian

    I think that's what makes this thought experiment interesting: Even with the guarantee that someone dies instantly (the worst case), you can figure out how many lives can be saved with 100k dollars, and from a utilitarian perspective, you'll probably end up with a net positive of lives saved (you can probably save more than one life for 100 k). From a purely utilitarian perspective, you could even calculate the expectation value of lives saved / lost for each button press (provided all the money goes to saving lives), and figure out the exact number of button presses that is the morally "correct" choice. In that sense, this thought experiment can demonstrate the absurdity of utilitarianism when taken to the extreme: Most people would agree that it's morally defensible to sacrifice one person to save one million, but when you do this calculation, you could end up with the result that you should sacrifice a million people to save ten million, which I think most people would find questionable.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    how many lives can be saved with 100k dollars

    Is keeping someone alive enough to balance the books? Does the quality of their life matter? What if they're alive but living in a refugee camp?

    From a purely utilitarian perspective, you could even calculate the expectation value of lives saved / lost

    I don't think you can, not without making massive assumptions. Lives lost directly might be easy if the button is labelled "0.1% chance of killing someone". But, what if you spend your $100k on driving a light truck which emits a lot of pollution, which in turn contributes a tiny amount to the deaths of a lot of people?

    And, for lives saved, say you do it in a pretty easy to calculate way, donating food to people who would die without that food. Is that where the calculation ends? What if that person goes on to help other people? Or what if that person goes on to become a soldier and kill people.

    I don't think it's at all realistic to try to calculate an expectation value of lives saved / lost with any accuracy except through the most direct effects.

    the absurdity of utilitarianism when taken to the extreme

    I guess that's what I'm getting at.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    The problem with statistics is that 20% of people in a large population absolutely will die. At least in the context of this meme, the statistics used are gathered from real world data - deaths from cancer, lack of treatment, poor working conditions.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago

    He can afford foreshortening and detailed hands, in a stickman worldβ€½ His greed sickens me.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    billionaire would hire multiple persons to press the button and give the money to them while paying basically nothing for it.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I'd hope it would take a lot more than $100,000 for most people. That won't even get you a house.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    It'd get me a sizable down payment on a house with a bit left for expenses. Which is basically the only hurdle to me owning a house at this point. Not that I would kill someone for it... At least not a random person. There's people I'd kill for money.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    You could still not press the button for selfish reasons.

    "I'm not pressing it because there is a chance the random person who dies is me."

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    1 in 8 billion is pretty good odds though.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Exactly. Look at the odds of winning the NYS Powerball. 1 in 292,201,338 and I've lost so many lotto tickets. By all rights I should be able to press this button at least 30 times without any fear whatsoever. 100 times is still far below any risk of danger. If I or someone I know were to die after pressing this button 100 times it would be proof that God has a vendetta against me. He would have discarded mathematical probability just to make me suffer.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    Depending on how rich you are, $100,000 might do exactly nothing to your lifestyle, but dying would.

    Risk reward. Someone with nothing, but living in an extremely low cost of living area, might end up with life changing, never have to work again money (assuming it's able to be used with no loopholes), but a billionaire couldn't even find the change buried in their day to day noise of the market changes.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago*

    Once you're a billionaire, no amount of money will impact your lifestyle, but they keep hoarding wealth anyway.

    There are people who become billionaires and it's not their fault. They inherited money, or their company explodes and is suddenly worth ungodly money, so I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that there's no way for a moral person to become a billionaire.

    But there's absolutely no moral excuse for remaining a billionaire or seeking additional wealth.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago

    The more I look at this, the more unhinged it becomes. None of the buttons are organized, the billionaire has a giant toe for a foot, and I keep thinking the billionaire has six fingers instead of five.

    Prefect amount of unhingedness. 10/10.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I actually just thought about this same analogy a bit ago. Most normal people it would be a hard no, but there are some out there that would do it for $1k and their first question would be "can i hook it up to an auto-clicker?"

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    I have an alternative idea fom a meme.

    Blue says: "if you could push a button that gives you a hundred million dollars but a random billionaire dies, would you do it?"

    Then simply switch yellow and the billionaire.

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  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

    "If you could push a button that made you lose $10 but a random billionaire dies, would you do it?"

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Billionaire would press the button for 100 bucks, then spend 100 times the amount in a pair of shoes he'll never wear.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago
    [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    More metaphorical than hypothetical, imo

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I don't believe in this being hypothetical anymore.

    I guess the billionaire only cares if the death can be attributed to his actions (juristically). Everything else and it doesn't matter.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    MEAWHILE

    (but yeah, good comic)

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I wonder how many people would change their answer if it was highlighted they're in the set of people that may die. Even though it's long odds, people are more intuitive than rational with things like that.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    hundred thousand? naw.

    hundred million. sure. I could actually do some good for the world with that.

    I would troll the fuckin shit out of billionaires and shitty corpofascist with every penny.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    Think about how much more you could troll them if you turned that into a billion! Besides, you've got bills to pay. And these taxes are obscene, that money has already been taxed a thousand times! You've taken on quite the burden and deserve to live a little.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    $100,000 could easily be used to save ~20 people from death. I'd press at least like 40 times and donate half to charities that save people from easily preventable diseases and shit in developing countries. Use some to buy a house for me and a house for my mom and then put the rest in various accounts where I and my mom could live off the interest for the rest of our lives.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Cool that we let them live

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    I would press it at least ten times. A hundred times would also be tempting. There are eight billion people in the world. Chances are I won't know anyone who dies.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    But the random person could potentially be someone from the administration? Starts mashing

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago*

    Never mind.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    one of the better episodes of the 80s Twilight Zone "Button, Button"

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    Since I recently finished Zero Escape, my first idea is to press it a couple billion times

    (If I get lucky it'll kill all the stupid people)

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    You can't kill all the stupid people without killing everyone. We're all stupid in our own ways.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah yeah, billionaires aren't human, they're evil aliens or smth.

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