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[–] 66 points 8 months ago (15 children)

If Elon Musk finds a $100 bill in the street, it isn't worth his time to pick it up

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  • [–] 43 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (12 children)

    Meanwhile, if your yearly salary is less than $315,360 it is worth your time to pick up a penny.

    mathAssume picking up a penny takes one second. There are 31536000 seconds in a year (roughly, let's not get into leap seconds). Multiply that by $.01, the value of a penny. Then you get the salary such that across the year you're making a penny every second. A caveat to this is that even if you're making more than this you need to debate what "worth your time" means because it's still a penny you wouldn't have either way, but I think this is enough to illustrate the wealth gap.

    Small edit: To add to that last point, what I mean is that it's not like you stop earning your yearly salary while you're picking up a penny.

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  • [–] 25 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I mean to be fair, you wouldn't be getting paid $315,360 for a years worth of work, you'd be getting paid $315,360 for 7.488 million seconds in a year (ish, 40 hour weeks, no missed days)

    So really to have picking up a penny in one second be "worth" your time, you'd only have to be making $74,880 a year or less

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Picking up a penny takes way longer than one second! At least 5, if it includes stopping, and even longer if you check it out and put it in your wallet!

    😁

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    I'd have to include another 30 seconds to unlock my phone and search something like "is 1956 penny worth anything", then another 20 seconds for disappointed reflecting.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    You just need to remember the silver cutoff dates on silver coins. Pennies are only worthwhile if they aren't a Lincoln penny. Even the commemorative pennies with the centennial backs of Lincoln are like a dollar mint for the whole set. Wheat pennies and stuff like that should be obvious just looking at the penny.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    There are specific valuable pennies that are worth more than their copper value, like steel pennies from 1943, copper wheat error penny (also 1943), double die (I think from the 50s?), Indian head (pre-1909) etc.

    There's obviously a huge incentive to know whether your currency is above face value, so I feel like 99.9% of notable coinage has already been removed.

    When your boomer/greatest gen relatives graduate from this planet, it's always a good idea to look between the cushions of that mid-century sofa they couldn't part with, and everywhere else that can hold such treasures. Sweet old Meemaw and Peepaw may have left the musty davenport in the will, but overlooked the actually good stuff!

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Unless picking up the bill stops someone from earning for some reason, most people should earn their hourly wage plus $100

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Is this part not showing for you or did you just miss it?

    Small edit: To add to that last point, what I mean is that it's not like you stop earning your yearly salary while you're picking up a penny.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    That’s what I meant as well - we are saying the same thing. I think I misread your comment as that being the threshold to make it worth it. Don’t mind me, my brain is mush after work lol

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Idk, I think he'd pick it up because it's liquid wealth. The majority of his wealth is tied to the speculative market. I'm uncertain how much he could even make cashing his winnings out of the Stockmarket. Assuming he withdrew all assets and liquidated them. I'm sure it would be a ridiculous amount still.

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  • [–] 39 points 7 months ago (28 children)

    Financial obesity is an existential threat to any society that tolerates it, and needs to cease being celebrated, rewarded, and positioned as an aspirational goal.

    Corporations are the only β€˜persons’ which should be subjected to capital punishment, but billionaires should be euthanised through taxation.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    Where I live, in Washington state, there isn't an income tax however, finally, they're implementing one on people making over 1M/yr. There were people out protesting that definitely don't make 1M/yr. It's wild.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I am sincerely curious why anyone who has never & will never earn a million dollars per year, why would they be out on the streets protesting against taxing those who do. Maybe they participate in every protest because they're always down to party in the streets regardless of the occasion.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    Nah, I think their main logic is the slippery slope fallacy, it might be them next! They also probably are just against all taxes all the time which, if you think about that for a singular second, how the fuck would they drive their lifted pickup to a protest against taxation if there were no tax dollars to build roads? They probably also don't realize/understand that we could hold millionaires to a different standard than us, as it's unprecedented in America.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    "Financial obesity" I like that, haven't heard that before. Is that yours? Or did you hear that somewhere?

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  • [+] -10 points 7 months ago (20 children)
  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Why should you, I, or anyone care where they get the money from?

    A simple answer would be they could sell some of the assets they have which contribute to their classification as a billionaire. If they don’t have the collateral to pay the tax, they’d be able to prove it by no longer being classified as a billionaire, in which case the goal would be achieved with another billionaire being euthanised.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago*

    We just need to extend graduated tax brackets all the way up. Currently the highest tax brackets end somewhere at like six figures, and anything above that is taxed the same.

    Even 90% taxes on a billion dollars still leaves you with a hundred million in spending money. There's no way someone needs more than that. In one year? That amount alone could be put in a CD with a 3% APY and you'd make $3,000,000 in interest in one year. There's no way someone needs even a net-worth higher than $100,000,000, but no one can complain about "only" making that much after taxes in a year.

    Especially when you consider that tax rates only apply to the income above the amount specified in the bracket. That 90% would apply to your second billion made in a year. Everything below the first billion gets taxed at the same rates as everyone else in a given bracket, i.e. your first $100,000 in a year gets taxed the same as anyone else's first $100,000...

    Billionaires have no room to complain.

    Oh, and those graduated tax brackets should apply the same between capital gains and regular income. Currently, the highest capital gains tax rate in the US is about 20%... comparable to someone making about $45,000 a year in regular income...

    That means the highest tax rate someone making money primarily from investments would pay is the same as someone who would be considered at or below the poverty line in most states.... And the billionaires are only paying that rate on their "taxable" interest, meaning it ignores all the money they launder through shell companies and writing off large purchases as business expenses...

    Poor people can't write off rent, food, and utilities on their taxes... so why can billionaires write off mansions, yachts, and paintings...?

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  • [+] -5 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Eliminating billionaires will neutralise their ability to manipulate society at the level they currently do.

    Money doesn’t originate from the private sector, if it did it would be fraud. The funding of services, in an economy with sovereignty of its currency, originates from legislation through the budgets passed by the relevant agents.

    Permitting any entity to grow more powerful than the entity responsible for regulating it is carcinogenic, if not suicidal.

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  • [+] -4 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    If they have billions of dollars, they're not strapped for cash. They have a whole culture and industry designed around tax "optimization" where they buy private yachts, mansions, paintings, and other "real" assets under shell companies to write those purchases off as "business expenses" to reduce their tax liability. That's why they "don't have cash". Because they deliberately avoid holding cash across fiscal years.

    They also have sneaky ways of avoiding capital gains tax by reinvesting dividends in ways that defer taxation indefinitely.

    That all needs to change, and the only way to change it is through tax policy.

    The only way to defer capital gains taxes should be through certain retirement plans, which are generally used by the working class because billionaires don't need 401Ks. And they still get taxed at the end of term when the money is withdrawn, and they can't be withdrawn from early without a tax penalty.

    All these exceptions for billionaires written into the fine lines of the tax code that you need to be able to afford a personal accountant and layers of shell companies in order to utilize needs to go away.

    Billionaires have the money to pay taxes; we need to stop allowing them to pretend they don't.

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  • [+] -6 points 7 months ago (11 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Are you deranged? They have net worths in the hundreds of billions of dollars. They make billions more dollars each year. I just explained in detail how they game the tax system to avoid paying taxes on their gains. I'm not going to write it all out for you again just because you missed it the first time.

    Yes, obviously their revenue comes from the consumers. In the same way your salary comes from your employer. Money changes hands, that's the whole point. What difference does that make?

    By the way, a significant portion of their revenue (with increasing emphasis lately) comes from business-to-business sales. Not the consumer.

    And no, China doesn't pay the US tariffs. The US importers do, and they pass the costs on to their consumers. What kind of idiotic strawman/red herring was that supposed to be? If I was a moron who thought China pays US tariffs, I wouldn't be here saying "tax the rich," would I? Stop deflecting from your plutocrat apologia.

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  • [+] -5 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    "the billionaire don't have a billion dollars"

    Oh yeah, I forgot "billionaire" is what we call someone who doesn't have a billion dollars...

    "No one has figured out how to tax them"

    I just explained it in detail, which you continue to ignore. People have figured it out, it's not that complicated. It just doesn't get implemented because politicians are bought by corporate dark money lobby groups, and people like you do a lot of footwork obfuscating the situation on the internet by pretending billionaires are poor and penniless.

    "the 'wealth' elon has is backed from stocks at 350 p/e. That money isn't real"

    Yes, their net worths are inflated (which gives them benefits on loans, which they use to further inflate their wealth). But that's easy to fix. Either don't let them declare worths that are higher than reality, or tax them at the net worths they declare.

    Either way, that doesn't change anything I said about how capital gains are taxed, or how they should be taxed.

    Get a clue.

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  • [+] -4 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    I'm not saying their net worth statements aren't inflated, but that doesn't matter to this conversation because it's not net worth that gets taxed. I already explained how they reduce their tax liability, which is primarily capital gains tax for them, and I mentioned things that could be done about it. This whole argument about their wealth being inflated is a red herring.

    Although I don't believe you're being genuine, if you really want to you can look into circular lending and how corporations make a gagglefuck with each other by lending money to each other that they borrowed from each other. But I'm not going to break it all down for you any further because you're clearly not arguing in good faith. If you're just mentally challenged though, I apologize for being harsh.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    If the valuations are bullshit, then the tax code should call them out on it so that valuations wouldn't be so inflated. If the valuations aren't bullshit, then they should be able to sell to get the money.

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  • [–] 92 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    How does this work when the capitalists working hours are zero? You cant divide by 0?

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    [–] 19 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    The CEO of my company makes almost $40,000 a day and all he has to do is play kissyface with congressmen.

    The mouse at by shared office computer still has a fucking ball in it.

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Every time someone blames left vs right, Dems vs GOP, this is what I think of. It is really the consolidation of income and wealth with the very few at the top that is the problem.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Fascist use whatever ideology gets them more power. Racism today and Gay Rights tomorrow.

    If you can't see beyond the propaganda you will never understand what is happening.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    The book 'Freakomomics' deals, among many others, with the similarities between a corporate giant and a regular criminal organisation. In short, petty criminals risk death or prison for only two reasons: a) they feel they have no other choice and b) they are hoping, one day, to become part of the top members. That's about it. Think about it for a while and the argument is easily transposed to the '''legal''' corporate world, which also explains why middle managers tend to be obedient assholes who, instead of being mad at those exploiting them, exploit their underlings themselves.

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  • I had a boss years ago who owned a temporary agency, and I had the pleasure of watching him berate his two receptionists -- who made $7 an hour and who had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the success of the business -- because his monthly income from the business had dropped from $40,000 to $25,000. Meanwhile he spent his entire day playing solitaire and listening to the Rush Limbaugh show.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Its so fucking easy for em. Maybe we can trick people into liking each other.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe we can abuse religious doctrine that teaches about loving a neighbor or something.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    All we got from that is that since Obama won in 2012, the moment you call out the religious right, liberals and many leftists will go "um, ackchually, real christian are not like that", all because some attributed his win to being a "good christian" (he didn't divorce his wife, to then go on wanting to ban abortion, porn, etc.). Basically it turned into yet another wedge issue.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago

    this is just sad. fuck these guys

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (9 children)

    50/hr guy is not welcome in my home, not because of his class but because I don't like bootlickers and that's a bootlicker right there.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (3 children)

    I hate to break it to you, but $50/hr is barely $100,000/yr. That's barely above low income where I live. That is not even remotely your enemy.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    If he won't get out of the way, yes he is.

    Exactly why he shouldn't be acting like that. I didn't make him a bootlicker, he did. As I said, It's not his 'class' (ie. pay) that bothers me. It's their unwillingness to jeperdise their precious position while others wallow.

    He likely got to the position that he did because he decided to be like that, their is no way for me to change his mind because a person like that won't risk their position for someone else, thats how they got to where they are in the first place. So unless they believe they will do even slightly better by joining us, they won't help

    Have you only worked at one place your entire life? It would explain they you might not understand where I'm coming from. (no being hostile, actually asking)

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, that your enemy, not the person who makes 40k/hour, and his dividens and net worth skyrockets.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    If he's unwilling to change. Then yes. They are my enemy, if they are unwilling to stay out of it or be convinced otherwise then yes.

    Too many of you seem to think you can fundamentally change people's minds regardless of a person's lot in life, that's crazy!

    persons like that are often snakey people out for their people and themselves Caring little for the zobified grunts making nothing under them. To

    The knew what they were doing when they brown nosed and stepped on colleagues on their way into management positions and we have nothing to offer these dollar driven pricks to get them to turn on their pay masters, their in to deep to lose it now.

    Their no point in talking them down when they have little to no reason to stop it, it's why so many labor strikes turned violent back in the day.

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  • [+] 7 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Who exactly? Middle management? They listen that complaints from top, but still they are just workers ;)

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    no they are not, they are actively supporting these systems by being little brown nosing shitweasel. Iv met plenty that actually act like this. to the point that im willing to guess that some of the detractors on here are these types of people, and they're proving the sketch correct. working together isn't the answer. if it were, we'd have solved the problem by now and since we have nothing more to offer these cretins that they cant get from their boss. the only answer is to either walk around or push them out of the way.

    (fuuuuuck i didn't see the winky face)

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Me, a serb with 2€/h TT

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Not a woman to be seen lol

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  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    The dollar sign belongs before the number.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Presumably someone from a non-english speaking country made this, considering the dots used as digit grouping separators.

    Having the $ at the end would be nice though. It's nice having your units in a single fraction instead of at different sides of the number. It could then be consistent with how we write all our other units.

    We don't write mΒ 1000/s, for example. We write 1000Β m/s. We even say it this way already "4 million dollars per hour".

    4,000,000 $/h makes way more sense than $4,000,000/h to be honest.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

    The problem I see is that rich old man has a lot of cash, and governments compete globally for that mans investment dollars. If you tax him theres some euclidean point where it no longer makes sense to invest.

    If you're talking about taxing a person making 1 million dollars 75% and taking away 750k is that really fair? If you're some kind of genius programmer or CEO who went to Harvard would you stay for 25%?

    We need to remove the tax loophole that people like Elon Musk use, where they borrow money to avoid paying taxes.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    If you tax him theres some euclidean point where it no longer makes sense to invest.

    Yes, that is exactly the point! That one rich person can not invest any more to screw everyone! There can still be governments, non-profits and cooperatives to invest. Only they have to invest with a multitude of people in mind.

    If you're some kind of genius programmer or CEO who went to Harvard would you stay for 25%?

    Yes that is totaly fair. No one can be so much of a genius to justify earning so much more. Also, what kind of asshole genius doesn't want to contribute to a better society?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago*

    Here in Canada our central bank is warning about a lack of productivity investment, as the US is sucking investment away. They say its lowering standards of living, something about real wealth is per capita worker productivity.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    There is absolutely no one hard working or intelligent enough to be worth 4M$/hr.

    Doesn't matter how many Harvard-level degrees you have.

    The only possible argument for someone earning that much money is if "they took a huge risk by investing a lot of money in a hugely risky business opportunity".

    And in that case, such risk should not exist. If a government wants to truly encourage entrepreneurship, it should provide with the basic needs for everyone, even if they lose everything in a risky business that didn't pay off. At the expense of course of taxing it when it does pay off.

    Otherwise, only the rich can be entrepreneurs.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    I guess the reality is you're clawing away peoples ability to become that rich old man while leaving him unaffected.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    No.

    Nobody is going to become that rich out of skill/hard work/intelligence. The level of wealth we are talking here is only obtainable via the exploitation of others.

    We are not talking about a highly skilled surgeon that saves many lives earning some hundred thousands per year. There are people out there that earn millions per month.

    And you're not leaving the rich people unaffected. You are taxing them. As I said, tax the businesses with huge profits, to support entrepreneurs in case their business fail, in order to have more entrepreneurs that can actually compete with the multimillion companies that do nothing but enshittify their products and underpay their workers.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    The hooked nose was never code for anything. Move along.

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  • [+] -7 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Four bucks per hour laughing at nineteen bucks an hour?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    It says $4 million per hour. It's from one of those places that uses dots instead of commas.

    But I do like to imagine someone in a really low CoL area like the Philippines wearing a tuxedo and laughing about how wealthy they are making $4/hr.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    There are only two countries that use a currency named dollar and the comma as the decimal separator: Ecuador and Suriname. Which of them seem likely to have originated this English-language meme with typical US hourly rates?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    People in countries that use . instead of , still use $ without changing punctuation when referring to the dollar.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You know that various countries have their own currencies? Why would they refer to the dollar instead?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Good lord. Because the dollar exists, and people in other countries are free to reference it without changing their numerical punctuation standards. Other languages have their own spellings for America too, and in their own alphabets. They don't have to switch things up for us.

    Don't worry, the American dollar won't be the de facto global currency much longer, so this kind of thing will just fade away. Of course, that means we will have to learn new systems.

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