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[–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

They keep on calling it secure, but it has no E2EE

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago

    That's a fair point about E2EE. For a communication tool, it's a critical piece of trust. But what I find compelling about an open-source alternative is the transparency it offers. Even without E2EE right out of the gate, the ability for anyone to inspect the code, audit for vulnerabilities, and contribute to its improvement builds a different kind of trust. It shifts trust from a corporate promise to a community verifiable fact. That's a fundamental win for public infrastructure, even if there are still features to build out.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    The interesting part isn't just the software itself, it's what this signals about public trust. When governments adopt open source, it's usually not about ideology - it's about avoiding vendor lock-in and having real control over their infrastructure.

    For the rest of us, that's actually good news. Government backing means more maintenance resources, more auditors, and products that actually stick around instead of disappearing when a startup runs out of money.

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  • 92 comments in c/linux@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 38 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Was worried they'd use it as a walled garden or a monitoring system. MIT license iirc allows forking, so at least if things go downhill, there are ways to mitigate it.

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  • [+] -13 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    What’s the license on Firefox and why is it so impossible to create a fork of that browser that doesn’t suck?

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  • [–] 46 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Nothing to do with license.

    Firefox is a massive piece of code and following modern browser standards is so difficult that it's a feat for big teams of developers and no small team seems to be able to pick the pace needed.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    Yeah, one of the largest pieces of software humanity has created, next to Google Chrome and the Linux kernel, which are all around 30 million lines of code.

    To give a frame of reference: With a team of 5 full-time devs at my dayjob, we can dish out a codebase of about 20 thousand lines over the course of two years.

    A browser might be somewhat quicker to build, because the requirements are relatively clear at this point and you can start implementing many standards in parallel. But yeah, it's still just an insane amount of code.

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  • [–] 37 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Microsoft Teams is such a horrible piece of software that productivity will rise after abandoning Teams.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Care to elaborate?
    I know many people who use Teams at work, and they aren't complaining. Quite the opposite actually. Various announcements are no longer emails since they have been migrated to relevant Teams channels. This means that it's way faster to scroll past announcements that are not particularly relevant to your work, and none of them clog up your inbox any more.

    The only real problem is CPU and RAM usage, but as long as your IT department is reasonably funded, that's not a problem either.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Teams is slow, sluggish, buggy and crashes often. Slack is much better, so are many other tools.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Also, it always tries to open the office files within teams instead of the actual office application. The features are worse and everytime you receive a chat and want to check it, teams closes your file....great productivity

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  • [–] 49 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    I wonder what is wrong with jitsi...

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Have you tried selfhosting it? For me, it was unusable, despite a beefy cloud server, even for just 2 people. And thats ignoring setup complexity.

    This one is optimized and kubernetes ready, which makes it super easy. Will try out soon.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    I was hosting it 5 years ago in a 2gb or 4gb VPS. We were able to run 1440p@120hz, if not higher, streams of our games. The server didn't seem to care much about the load.

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  • [+] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It's licensed under Apache license:

    Apache License 2.0 A permissive license whose main conditions require preservation of copyright and license notices. Contributors provide an express grant of patent rights. Licensed works, modifications, and larger works may be distributed under different terms and without source code.

    Permissions Commercial use Modification Distribution Patent use Private use Limitations Trademark use Liability Warranty Conditions License and copyright notice State changes

    You know that they could just fork it, right? Saying that "it's american", just causes FUD for opensource.

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    [–] 20 points 9 months ago

    Just created

    In testing for the past year

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Well, I wish you could just say that, but "the French" is not a consistent body of people.

    While we have this team working on a sovereign suite, Macron is rushing a law to ban <15 years old on social network, so… they will soon require all users to provide an ID. It will have to go through a "trusted third-party", not directly to Meta/Twitter/etc., and not to the gov directly, but we all know how much corporates and governments have been trustworthy historically. And once the data is collected, you're just one law away from all abuse.

    Needless to say that the teen will rush to VPN, so they also mentioned a potential ban on VPNs! (France would then join the short-list of great democratic VPN-banning countries: North Korea, China, Iran…)

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    MS about to swoop in with the yuge discounts…

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Folks, you won't believe how yuge these discounts are. The biggliest discounts ever. Many people are saying they've never seen one as big as this. Also, new 500% tarrifs on anyone who doesn't buy office365.

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  • [–] 44 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Why didn't they pour money on Jitsi?

    European, mature, FOSS...

    I fear grift is there somewhere.

    Also, French engineering has a habit of turning sound concepts into messy overengineerd but underbuilt results.

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  • [–] 45 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    My guess would be that its because La Suite tries to replace all of Microsoft Office and having all the moving parts under your organisations control makes it easier to create a fully integrated office suite that offers the same UX throughout. Also Jitsi is owned by 8x8, a US company, which might have factored into the decision to create something new.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago

    The development is quite transparent. The team is looking at reduced development and more integration, so instead of "pouring money on a project", they tried various solutions, and picked the "best one".

    One criteria was an integration with their internal communication system: Tchap, essentially a Matrix server. The Matrix video call group didn't cut it because it requires ElementX, and apparently there are unresolved issue there (no idea if it's the app itself or due to customization of their Matrix server). They ended up with Visio, that is not a "new" solution: it's based on LiveKit.

    https://github.com/tchapgouv/tchap-product/issues/259

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Also, French engineering has a habit of turning sound concepts into messy overengineerd but underbuilt results

    Any example ?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I've had several French cars, starting with an R4. That one was good, did exactly what it was designed to do. Next I had Talbot Horizon, an american (Chrysler) car with a very good diesel engine. Then I had a Peugeot 505, that had a good engine that was over complicated to the extreme, to the point that the oli overflow pipe litrelly crossed over from one side of the engine to the other, a truly brain dead design. Also the electrics in the back were literally routed under the rear light seals, so a seal failure meant that the electrical system shorted when it rained, the central locking and windows actuators had similar design flaws.

    I also had a Xara, which had several secondary ecus, which had to be progressively eliminated , until I sent the thing to the scrap yard, out of despair, despite having a sound body and engine.

    I'm in Europe, and I sometimes play the game of observing how many old cars (15+ years) I spot by nationality. Plenty of German, Spanish, Czech, Japanese and Korean. Very few Italian or French.

    My daily driver now is a 26 year old Skoda. I do all maintenance. In nearly 500.000 km, it has had zero major failures. A few minor things, starter (Bosch), two window regulators, a CV joint, and the usual, belts, clutch, brake pads... Consumables. I love how logical the engine bay is.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    This is awesome!

    But I am confused, isn't github Microsoft though? Why host it there?

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Because it's free, convenient, and works. And it's a git project so the code is already distributed, so if Trump has another tantrum and decides the EU can't use any American tech, the deleted PRs and issues would be annoying but we'll still have the code.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    isn't codeberg free as well? And it's in Germany

    🤔 1
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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    I don't think anyone said or implied that there were no alternatives.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Well, the point is that GitHub is owned by Microsoft, so if they're already developing an alternative to a Microsoft service, they would probably want to also use an alternative to a Microsoft service for their source code hosting.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    They want to be less dependent on US tech. Using something whose code is hosted on US tech is far less dependent than using something whose entire everything is American.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    I couldn't find any particular justification going through their website and other communication, it's not perfect but it's probably not that big a deal for an open source project to host their code there? If I remember I'll try to send them a message asking about it

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Anyone tried it? How is it

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The tech isn't hard to copy, just had to be willing to go and do it themselves.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Why would they name it "Visio"? That is already the name of a different Microsoft product.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago
    [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Interesting but do not trust Macron on anything, he's part of the club.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Reinventing the wheel .... Jisti cries in corner

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Look, no offense, but had you check the github Readme, or the previous comments, as it is mentioned several times, and you would have found that it is just an integration of LiveKit in their internal communication system, called Tchap, and Tchap is just a customized non-federated Matrix server.

    No wheel reinvented.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I haven't quite understood, what LiveKit has to do with video conferencing. Isn't that just some weird AI thingy?

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  • [+] 13 points 9 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Zoom has poor encryption. I have seen targeted ads a day after discussing very specific chemical reagents on zoom.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Yeah, it was definitely that and not all the web browsing and searching you and your colleague did before, during, and after the meeting, and the meeting notes you sent over gmail/microsoft mail. 🙄

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    This tool is developed for France's administration, not for the public. They host the servers. So I don't think e2ee is indeed a requirement.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Shouldn't it be the other way around? I'd expect e2ee to be a requirement for anything for the administration even if their laws are a little funky (rules for thee not for me, etc).

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago
    1. A tool used by a state employer only wouldn't need e2ee, since they hold all the servers.
    2. The French government has long been trying to make encryption in use by its citizens inspectable by them (the French government)
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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Its FOSS (or I guess FLOSS for this case since they are French lol), meaning it doesn't matter if the people creating the app are "good" or "bad" actors. A "good" actor can always create a fork or host their own instance.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    We like to think EU abandoning tech companies will create a new privacy FOSS ecosystem, when in reality they will likely just recreate their own Tech corps like China and US now that they have skin in the game

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I get that government use needs to be stringently tested for security, and so things take a little longer. But really, there are PLENTY of good FOSS products in existence that can be used as a base framework and a head-start to things like this.

    You don't have to re-invent the wheel when you could easily fork Jitsi-meet and harden it/secure it to your needs in the government.

    Jitsi is one of my top 5 FOSS projects that are basically already mature enough to be used in a professional setting

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    So many self hosted or european choices for that and still they created a new one. Same thing with W 😒

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    W is a SWEDISH startup funded by private entities.

    It has absolutely nothing to do with France, and the only link you could make here is it's owned at 25% by a media that received subsidies from the EU, like a lot of media do, and France is part of the EU.

    The startup has not been endorsed by any public entity at any level.

    This is completely irrelevant.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    It looks neat

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  • [+] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)
    [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Nextcloud and Infomaniak says hello.

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  • 3 comments in c/opensource@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 26 points 9 months ago

    No, they rebranded LiveKit, which is open source but afaik developed by a silicon valley startup.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    It is an MIT-licensed open source app that...

    People never learn. If this gets popular, some proprietary fork (probably owned by a US company) will win, become incompatible with the open source version, and maybe even hire the original devs and kill off the original project.

    He might be wrong about many things (like a child's ability to consent), but Stallman was certainly right about software licensing.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Can't be worse than Teams in terms of bugs at least

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