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[–] 157 points 10 months ago (37 children)

It's a console for people who like PCs

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago*

    It's a PC Console for people who DON'T like PCs.

    I want one because I don't have a modern PC that can run games. I have a PS5, Switch 2, and a MacBook. I hate windows, I don't want to deal with Linux or assembling a PC from components. I'm missing out on a lot of Steam games that I want to play. I don't want to sit in my office and play games, I want to relax on my couch in my living room and play them.

    This is for people like me. There's a lot of us. We're the ones that find piracy too much effort so we keep giving money to streaming services.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (15 children)

    You'd think those people would already have a PC...

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  • [–] 29 points 10 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    May I introduce you to Sunshine and Moonlight.

    No, I’m not asking you to open your curtains. Long as you have a good connection between your PC and TV, and some small TV device, you can play a lot that way.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    This is cool, how do controls work? Do you use a Bluetooth kbm/controller connected to the main PC?

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

    This concern exists regardless of what device is running on the TV.

    If you have a wireless keyboard that’s comfortable on the couch, use that. Otherwise, just use a controller and launch in Steam Big Picture mode (now basically looks like Steam Deck’s main screen).

    Good launchers (not all of them) also take controller input.

    EDIT: But I think to reinterpret your question, yes, the device on the TV generally should have the input connected directly. That can be done with Android TV and I think Apple TVs.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child)

    What I'm wondering is whether controls have to be still directly connected to the main PC (ie moonlight is casting the display only), or if moonlight also handles controller communication to the PC.

    Assuming its the former, I would imagine using a Bluetooth controller connected to the main PC, which would probably limit the physical range that I could leverage this solution.

    EDIT: Rereading your comment, perhaps the remote device can handle controls. I will look into this more later when I can research it better. Thanks for sharing!

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Why don't they hook it to their TV then?

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    My computer is at least 12 years old by now and according to the Steam hardware survey the majority of people on Steam has a PC that is worse than the Steam Machine. I might get one as my new desktop if the price is not too high.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (17 children)

    You can pretty easily just build an itx system and install linux on it. It might be a bit bigger, yes, but it'd also be easier to fix and upgrade. I believe the only thing you can change in the steam machine is the storage.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    More developers will specifically test on your setup if you have a Steam Machine.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    Most developers don't test on my setup and games have always worked fine. Adjusting game settings is not rocket science. Worst case scenario, you use the low/medium/high presets.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    You're lucky if changing graphics presets is the worst case scenario. Maybe check out the recent Gamers Nexus video on Linux GPU benchmarking to see a variety of performance issues on different cards for different games e.g., frame delay spikes, super low 1% rates and sometimes just overall bad performance.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Unlike your itx system, the steammachine is going to be reference hardware, much like how games got a Steamdeck profile, there will be games with a Steammachine profile.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    That's literally not a selling point imo. Also, I've literally never used a "steamdeck" preset on my steam deck.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    You don't think games optimized for a Steam Machine isn't going to be a selling point?
    And just because you haven't manually used a Steamdeck preset, I'm willing to bet that the game did it for you.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    The settings are optimized, not the game itself. There's quite a big difference between those two. Why are you assuming that there would be special versions of games for the steam machine if there aren't any for the steam deck?

    And no, if I tell you that I've never used a steam deck preset, it's because I haven't. I always tweak the settings myself or at the very least check them.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (2 children)

    it's smaller and comes with a touchpad controller for running desktop/waydroid apps, and it has hdmi cec

    Not to mention the OS is way better and easier to use as an HTPC than anything else out there. That won't be fully out until the steam machines release anyways.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    You can just buy a steam controller, hdmi cec is minor feature imo and I'm not really sure what you mean about the OS being so much better than "anything else out there". Install bazzite and you're most of the way there.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (5 children)

    Sorry but you can easily do that. The average person cannot. Most people would have to do multiple weeks of research into what different parts of a computer even are to have any hope of building a PC. Lemmy is one of the most out of touch places I've ever seen as far as tech literacy goes. The average person likely couldn't even tell you what an operating system is, let alone know what Linux is.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    If you don't want to build it just buy a prebuilt. It's not that hard.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Ah, maybe they could make some cool prebuilt with Linux already built in. Hmm and make it small enough to fit under a TV in a small shelf 🤔

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    And if only that machine could use OEM parts so that people could upgrade and fix it 🤔

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I don't think you could get OEM parts that would actually fit in that space tbh. Also the guaranteed software support from valve, and set spec list allowing devs to optimize for it are some pretty huge bonuses over other prebuilts. I'm not saying building your own comp is a bad idea, but for the average user who just wants to be able to game at medium settings in most games, this has some pretty major advantages.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Well, no. That's why they used custom parts. I'd rather have a slightly larger machine that I can actually maintain though.

    Also why are you so confident devs will "optimize" for the steam deck? That's just wishful thinking and I highly doubt it would happen. I also don't know what you're talking about when you mention "software support". Every pc component I've bough has had software support from its manufacturer.

    There's not even a cost advantage. We don't know the price but valve already said that it should cost about the same as building a similar pc.

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  • [–] 68 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    The use case is it's going to introduce gamers to Linux. And it's going to prove that in PCs, just like consoles, you don't need Microsoft to game.

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  • [–] 22 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    I'm not a Linux person, but Microsoft, big corpos and oligopolies generally, are really starting to irritate me. I am looking at more and more ways to get them the fuck outta my life.

    And maybe Linux is the way for tech stuff.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago

    I’m not a Linux evangelist, but I will say that after an initial “what on earth is this” period of learning the basics and doing some distro-hopping, I’ve found that I really like Linux. It can meet all my needs, it’s a comfortable daily driver, and I have no desire to go back to Windows.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    I think we are reaching a moment where corporate greed is pushing people towards a tipping point. It feels like people are getting squeezed on everything and are seeking areas where things are still customer friendly.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    There's a reason people refer to Linux as a rabbit hole. I started in your exact position, but even then I didn't make the switch for years. But the more I read and learned about the constant, and I mean constant, flow of personal information Microsoft is syphoning from my usage, I made the jump.

    These big companies don't even follow the old rule of law, "If it's free, you're paying for it another way". Windows is a paid product that still insists on extracting as much profit from you as they can, they don't care anymore because they are the default regardless.

    The switch to Linux isn't bad really, there are plenty of distros aimed at the "I want to switch but don't want to use the terminal" users that getting your foot in the door is basically painless. The worst of it is when you need to use some windows only software or run spyware disguised as a videogame.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    That seems like a nice start to adopt Linux to the mainstream market. If there are more products, it maybe will be like with Android phones. I'm happy there seems to be more alternatives nowadays. Just installed one of my Steam games on my now semi Linux PC and I find it pretty cool that I can now play on that. Before, with just an emulator, it doesn't really feel the same.

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  • [–] 59 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    The Steam Machine is the new Commodore 64 or Apple IIe. For one price, it's going to do almost everything just good enough.

    If the price isn't ludicrous, it will likely be my default recommendation to anyone asking what PC to get for grandma.

    Can she check her email?

    Yes.

    Can we just hook it to her TV?

    Yes.

    Can it play some kind of cooking simulation party game with the kids?

    Yes.

    Okay send me a parts list.

    No parts list, just buy one and hook it up.

    Okay. How often do I have to buy an OS upgrade?

    Those are free.

    Which game controllers work with it?

    Pretty much all of them, but it probably also comes with one.

    This is going to be the stupidly easy answer for casual gamers and casual PC users, as long as it doesn't cost double what either of those would.

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  • [–] 57 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    I want to just buy games and have them work on my machine. So a console.

    Microsoft is surrendering the console war.

    Sony has already put malware in their products and I will not be their customer again.

    Nintendo is super locked down.

    Valve has always shown me excellent customer service.

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Nintendo has made it better to buy a fucking steam deck and pirate their games. I think the steam deck and the GabeCube will splash the market with better performance than other consoles, better use cases and usability, and therefore make other companies make there consoles better.

    As a Nintendo fan, Nintendo is like all of our toxic boyfriends. But if Nintendo either a) licensed their games to other devices or b) allowed there devices to run linux/pc games I would step (a lil bit) back on the Nintendo train.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I disagree on what it would take to bring me back to Nintendo, cause... I think its ok for them to make a fancy digital toy with games that change how we play with it.

    But I want the fancy digital toy to be worth it first and be fun.
    Like the DS was a planner and a doodle pad, and a contact book, and a web browser and a gameboy and a DS. They had a version that let me see games in 3D. They had a console that let me swing swords like the main character in the game that came out just for it. I could play any sport like I was actually doing it right away day 1 and design a character to play as.

    Now the console does nothing but play the games that dont come with it. And they dont even use a fun game mechanic they added to make the digital toy cool. They lost all passion and it is just a worse locked down version that only plays the game and goes away. Made to have you purchase more on it then use it.
    I miss Nintendo.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago

    You are actually right, I didn't think about Nintendo's past when making that comment but I would appreciate if Nintendo stopped competing with others in the market and did its own thing to a higher extent. I mean the switch 2 is straight up the steam deck but without only Nintendo games.

    It doesn't even matter if it's linux or otherwise, as long as they are innovating in the gaming area.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago

    This. I am wishfully thinking that even if it doesn't hit the ground running at launch, over time enough people will convert for it to be a commercial success. The only thing that could make me put another console in my home is my desire for physical media, but even then half of the games released are just glorified download cards. Truthfully there is almost 0 reason for an informed consumer to purchase a console now.

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  • [–] 25 points 10 months ago

    I mean yes, jack of all trades master of none. But then again a mass produced hardware which will run all modern AAA games (Meaning cheaper), running on Linux (Linux being used mainstream in a user friendly sense is better than not Linux) and still being user friendly is overall a company doing something I like, and adding competition to the console marketplace.

    I bought Helldivers and BG3 on PS4 for in total like $150 and I sold my PS5 and now I can't even play those games anymore. With it being linked to a steam account, this isn't a problem anymore they can access there paid games on any device, which I like.

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  • [–] 22 points 10 months ago

    EZ

    I'm interested in the Steam Machine because I like playing on consoles. Steam's ecosystem seems interesting because it's more open than PlayStation's (what I'm on currently). Additionally, I like Linux. By using SteamOS, I'm hoping bug fixes and improvements will benefit the general Linux ecosystem. I don't want to install games on my regular computers. I want a dedicated gaming device. I don't intend to use the Steam Machine as a PC.

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  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    As someone who’s tried several PC-in-the-livingroom solutions, just try building a PC with good specs at that size and you’ll appreciate the niche that is being filled.

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago

    It’s a pretty nice custom designed PC that is guaranteed to work well with Linux. The only downside, really, is that you can’t upgrade it beyond storage and RAM.

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago* (11 children)

    Price!

    We can argue about it all we want, but basically everything hinges on its street price.

    If it's cheap, all those critiques are irrelevant.

    Expensive? "It's cute, I like Steam, I like how it mostly works OOTB," gets real niche, real quick.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    Regardless of the box cost, there's no arguing with the price of games in a Steam sale!

    I don't think I've paid more than £15 for a game in years and years.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    People always argue about the price of the machine, but hardly anyone mentions that console people pay to play online. Which is something i can't even really comprehend

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Good point. Steam provides a lot of the same multiplayer services and match making and they've never cost me a penny.

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  • [+] 1 point 10 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    For a lot of games, yes. They provide the infrastructure for communication and connection.

    Its why you can, for example, send an invite in AOE via the in-game system or the steam system.

    Its why so many games show your steam name and avatar in the multiplayer menus.

    You surprised to hear this?

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (1 child)

    Unfortunately, not everyone has the cash to spend up front. Paying more over time is easier.

    Or they just get lured in by a cheap sticker price.

    And again, price is still relevant. If this is well over $1K, it starts to negate the Steam storefront cost savings.

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  • [–] 29 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    People want a console but also:

    • A wider game library (Missing on Playstation and Xbox)
    • No subscription (missing Playstation and Xbox)
    • a working 10 foot UI (missing in windows)
    • controller os navigation (missing in windows)
    • no bimonthly fullscreen nags to use edge, office365, onedrive, etc. (missing in windows)
    • Working ACPI sleep states. (Missing on most cheap mini PCs)
    • Backwards compatibility for older titles and not needing to rebuy games when upgrading (Missing on PlayStation)

    Microsoft could probably build an XBox that fixes the first problem but would probably fill it with nag screens.

    People with technical skills can probably run Bazzite on a minipc but might hit issues with sleep depending on luck while purchasing.

    People without technical skills just want a package that works

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    Well said, I think the library is the biggest point but also a harder sell for someone used to losing a large percentage of their games every generation. They see it as "having to buy their games again" in the short term.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago

    Well what if i want something like a console but hate the big tech and dont enjoy someone spying on me? this is the only option. What if i want a console that i can modify and use as a pc or a server if i damn want to? this is the only option. What if i want a true console like experience but want to play a title that just isnt on any consoles? this once again is the only option. This thing will have so many usecases, just maybe a little specific ones.. :D

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Arch with KDE is for people who don’t like Linux?

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago

    I just like that I can play PC games on my TV, know that I have hardware that games are built to work on, and not have to get up to turn it on.

    That last one is the biggest one honestly.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago*

    Seems like a pretty consistent niche to me. People that want to get away from consoles but aren't good with Linux/pc and want something that just works. I wouldn't buy one for myself but I'd consider getting one for my nephew if he wanted to switch from his PlayStation. Anything that takes a bite out of Microsoft's market share is a plus as far as I'm concerned.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago

    Other than "not seeing the use case" I think the meme is right on. People hate Windows but don't want to deal with Linux, people hate being trapped in the walled gardens of Microsoft or Sony consoles, but don't want to deal with a full-on gaming PC. Kinda like how when iPads came out people where like, this is worse than a phone and worse than a laptop, who are these things even for?

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago

    its a console without the insane locked down interface. its a computer without the need to fiddle with stupid technical stuff that should just work. its linux without the need to learn all the things you think you just always knew about other systems but actually had to learn and aren't willing to anymore.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    It's a console for people who don't like being constantly kicked in the balls so they drop their money.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    I want them to build a top of the line gaming pc put into a small box and sell it to me at a huge loss. Why can't they do that?

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    The use case would be for people like me who want a dedicated box to put under the TV instead of having it at a desk. I don't know how easy or affordable it would be to build a computer that powerful and that small (and we don't know the price), so I can't say how useful or not the use case is.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    When was this in the office

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago

    It's for the people who can't afford to build their own PCs these days. Graphics cards went up in price, hard drives went up and now RAM.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    It's a PC for people who are too afraid or possibly can't afford (depending on price when announced) to build their own.

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    can’t afford ... to build their own

    Soon to be: Everyone

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child)

    Maybe Valve predicted this would happen... 🤔

    Or it will equally harm them by affecting the cost of making the SM.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Gabe is a billionaire yacht owner, at the end of the day. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a game of good cop/bad cop where Valve is playing off the general hatred of other large game companies with some inside knowledge of what's coming.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    Bro preach. I've been out here doing real linux work on an old panasonic microwave. If you really liked linux, you'd be running it on something with less than 16 MB RAM.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Can people tell me why focus is on the one piece of hardware in the set of three that had already seen a failed attempt in 2015? I thought more people would be talking about the Steam Frame and Controller?

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    VR is a niche market with fundamental accessibility flaws (motion sickness, spatial requirements, etc.). As for the controller, what discussion is needed? The steam deck already exists and from that it's pretty easy to get a decent idea of what the controller will cost and feel like. It'll probably end up being a solid controller for people that want it, but uncomfortable for people with smaller hands.

    That isn't to say that the steam frame/controller won't impressive pieces of technology, but should be pretty easy to see why discussions would mostly be around the steam machine and specifically its pricing. Its success (or failure) will likely be what carries the reputation of both the steam frame and the steam controller alongside it.

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