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[–] 171 points 1 year ago (29 children)

The last stars will burn out in 120 trillion years

We think. We still haven't solved things like the dark matter/energy problem. The answer to that alone could drastically change what we estimate will happen in the distant future.

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  • [–] 48 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

    Stuff only burns for so long. We might learn more about the geometry of space and that there is more out there at greater distances where maybe even other Big bangs are possible but there is a certain maximum amount of time that a star can exist.

    Over the time scales of the life of a proton the maximum variability in the amount of time a star can burn is a rounding error against the scale of numbers needed to express the amount of time it takes for hawking radiation to reduce black holes to ultra long wavelengths of infrared radiation.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Yes, but we don't have proof that universe can't generate new matter. For all we know there is a mechanism in universe not yet observed that can create new matter out of little vacuum and more stars will keep forming.

    So technically all we can say is, it's likely that stars will die out in 1000 trillion years.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Yes, but we don’t have proof that universe can’t generate new matter.

    True... we also don't have proof there isn't a tea pot orbiting our Sun since it's creation, either.

    However, there's also a complete lack of evidence of it.

    You cannot prove a negative. The evidence says no new matter can be created. No evidence that new matter gets created. Therefore, we work on the model of no new matter creation.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    On these scales, the accuracy of our observations should reduce our confidence though. It doesn't make sense to confidently say that, in 200 trillion years there will be no stars, because our observations of the rate of new matter creation (approximately zero) have a margin of error which allows for there to still be some

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Until evidence shows otherwise, new matter being created doesnt fit our observations.

    Go prove that wrong! Win yourself a Nobel prize in physics! That's what science is about!

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I do also want to point out that stuff like "The conservation of energy" law, in other words, that energy cannot be created or destroyed, does not hold for our universe with our current models. An expanding universe violates the time-translation symmetry

    This is our current models. This is what our current physics says. And we know it's incomplete.

    When it comes to scientific predictions, you always, always, need the caveat, "under our current model of".

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So if all the existing matter came from the big Bang, is it possible to condense it all back into one place?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    But in this case, this “theory” has a precedent. This energy and matter we have now must have come from somewhere. Whatever your personal belief on the matter is, what’s to say that event can’t happen again? If a god created the universe, then surely he can pump some more into it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Matter and energy can be converted. So, its possible it was never created, it just always was.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    That’s something I’ll never be able to understand. Something having no beginning. Just like I’ll never be able to understand a moment before the big bang, or at the moment of the singularity, where time did could not exist. If there’s no time, how can anything, like the big bang, happen? Unfortunately the singularity is something we know nothing about whatsoever, and probably will never know.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I mean, have you considered that the expansion of the universe generates or increases the total energy in the universe?

    As stars move apart, they gain both potential energy with respect to other stars, because greater distance from gravity sources means greater potential energy, but they also gain kinetic energy as they accelerate away from other objects. So, their mechanical energy (potential + kinetic energy) increases over time. Maybe somebody could build a clever machine out of this to harvest that energy?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    We also haven't tried every possible configuration of atoms to see if anything creates a portal to an infinite energy dimension or a perpetual motion machine or something we can use to make our own stars

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Infinite energy is cheating. Same with travelling backwards in time.

    My intuition tells me the universe doesn't allow cheaters.

    But then I'm just an evolved bag of water cells clinging onto a clump of rock so what the fuck do I know?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Time travel is allowed for under our current models. Or rather, time travel doesn't affect most parts of the current models, so it's not cheating.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    We can only time travel to the future or i am wrong?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Currently yes, but there's nothing inherent in there that's says there's no way for us to move backwards

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    I once reas a theory abou you needing to go faster than the speed of light which is not possible theorically

    PS: i am not a scientist i don't know much, only some basic shit i learned for curiosity

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Yeah for all we know stars are black hole poop

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Nah, that's the heavier elements.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    wait, i thought the heavier elements were star poop, and black holes poop either electrons or positrons i can't remember.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Only up to iron is star poop. Anything heavier tends to be created by novae of various sizes. Technically nothing comes from the black hole, but many of the very heavy elements are birthed along side black holes.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago*

    Gravity and time come from every black hole. Neither of those are "things" in the sense that they aren't matter. So don't think I'm saying that you are any kind of wrong. Perhaps "thing" might be to vague to be technically accurate, though.

    Everyone here seems oblique in a vision of nothing in perspective, though. Come on, where do you think a big bang came from?

    There's a cap limit to the size of a black hole because it will pop. Moreover, "The" is rather an inappropriate reference to a big bang. You might say "our" but infinity doesn't mean what you think it means. Not due to any "limit" but due to math through adjacent dimensions you're only just start to deduce the "obvious" nature of and think to look at. "How" is a whole other Giggle Maestro.

    If you need to understand how many dimensions there are...then you will never stop looking. Infinity is way more than we can but get a notion of.

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  • [–] 51 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Also see Dyson's Eternal Intelligence:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson%27s_eternal_intelligence

    Basically, if you assume it's possible to upload our intelligence to a computer and run it, then you can keep the energy going to run it for a very, very long time. Well past the heat death of the rest of the universe. It depends on running things in an on and off state to conserve energy for trillions of years. Subjectively, the people in there wouldn't notice that and would simply see their active lifespans go for trillions of years. It's not clear what the limit would actually be.

    It's something like Zeno's Paradox. You cut things in half each cycle, but never quite get to zero.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I cannot express in words just how much I do not want my consciousness to persist, trapped, for trillions of years of darkness. That would be unimaginable hell.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    with only a finite initial store of energy, only a finite number of thoughts can ever be processed. This "thermal death" of the universe prevents the infinite hibernation and computation trick from working, thus rendering Dyson's eternal intelligence scenario impossible in a universe with a positive cosmological constant.

    My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.

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  • [–] 42 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    This is the main reason why, if you come across a genie in a lamp, you should probably not wish for immortality. You're gonna be hellafuckin bored for a loooooooong time.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    From what I have read on the internet so far, it's probably best to not wish for anything at all. Just throw it in the deepest ocean to do us all a favour.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I suppose you could wish for all genies to be instantly annihilated. Maybe toss the GOP in there for good measure.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Why? Are you bored now? If so, why is it a problem? If not, then what's the problem?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Spending Eternity either crushed to a point in the heart of black hole or drifting thru the darkness of space all alone with nothing to do or even anything to look at.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Thus began the Age of Fire. But soon the flames will fade and only Dark will remain.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Just like every Knight praise the sun.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Tangentially related great sci-fi short story: “The Last Question” by Isaac Asimov: https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~gamvrosi/thelastq.html

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Does thinking about the long dark make anyone else feel like they are going to vomit?

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The chances of me living long enough to actually be effected by it are so slim that I'm completely unconcerned about it.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    That's neat, stars are just the sparks after the big bang, and "soon" that energy will be gone. Even with all the bad shit happening, it makes me happy to be alive in this beautifully short window of time in the universe, even if our little dust speck circling a spark is a bit fucked up sometimes

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    coulda said trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion and saved us a little time

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    we still have 120 trillion years left. we can spare the time for a few extra words

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No no, it will be over just like a second! Blink for 120 trillion years and you'll miss it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Comparison is truly the thief of joy. Of course, once we know how long the slow fade of an empty universe will last, the first thing we most do is make 120 trillion years of insane, glorious, beautiful existence seem inadequate.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    Anthropic Principle moment

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Honestly, this factoid is the closest thing to a real Total Perspective Vortex that I’ve ever felt.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)
    [–] 27 points 1 year ago

    We're doing a pretty bang up job of making that one second as stupid and painful as possible.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think the passing of time, as in waiting, is an experience of the mind. Without a waiting mind, the length of time is just another number out there, like the distance between the edges of the universe. If after the dark finale of this universe there exists another event that spawns a conscious mind, there is no actual waiting happening between this universe bright, starry second and the next one.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    Time can stretch and squish and follow physical rules, if the passage of time is an experience of the mind time itself would remain existent without minds just as real as distance and the passage of distance via movement between objects would remain without minds.

    One interesting thing I heard is the DESI data from a telescope observatory in Arizona that was trying to build a more accurate map of the universe identified the dark energy acceleration as slowing. That could mean if the trend continues eventually gravity will overpower dark energy and everything collapses back together again. I don't think it's conclusive, but it is evidence maybe heat death isn't an ending phase.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    Reminds me of that Kurzgesagt video about Optimistic Nihilism:

    "If you don't remember the 13.75 billion years that went by before you existed, then the trillions and trillions and trillions of years that come after will pass in no time once you're gone. Close your eyes. Count to 1. That's how long forever feels."

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Well then I'm just going to enjoy the absolute fuck out of Hawking radiation and Mr pouty pants can sulk for 10^elebenty eons.

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