Basically, the company had to pay for its own buyout when private equity firms KKL, Vornado, and Bain bought the company for $6.6 billion, mostly with loans.

Because the company then had to pay off those extreme loans, they were forced to sell off their assets and property, which they leased back from the very private equity firms that now owned them.

The same thing happened more recently with Red Lobster and JoAnn Fabrics.

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[–] 146 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Yeah, this is the case for most "public to private" company moves, and other types of private equity acquisition deals. They are all just a massive shell game to liquidate a company's value and transfer it to those private equity companies. Vulture Capitalism

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  • [–] 78 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Comical to read this when I just saw a $50 billion dollar sale of EA going private being bought by private equity firms, haha.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    My first thought as well. Of companies to lose to further "investor" shittery, I can't say I'll lose much sleep over EA if that turns out to be the case.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don't really know if that's the same kind of animal though. The Saudi royal family is trying desperately hard to diversify. Into as many different revenue streams as they can. You know to Stave off the coming disaster. So I think maybe they're actually in it for real with EA, though why you bank on a video game company being a long-term investment I'm not 100% sure. Point is they have so much money now I doubt it's for a quick profit. They have so many projects right now that are so risky they're basically burning cash.

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  • [–] 104 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    And the same thing is happening to hospitals all over the US, which should fucking terrify you.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Yeah but they have Jesus so they'll be okay.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    What’s crazy is that the Catholic hospitals are becoming your best bet.

    So you’re kinda right!

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Unless you want care they consider morally objectionable.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Ex-wife was a sort of surgeon at the local Catholic hospital. Never heard of anyone being denied care on religious grounds. Of course they're not going to do an abortion, but that's about it.

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  • [–] 189 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (42 children)

    below is a reply to a comment I made below, pasting here as I find it crazy how this went down and is allowed.

    For those curious I did a little digging. I’m on mobile so won’t be going in and out to add company names etc.

    Basically, the private equity firms got together and said let’s buy Toy R Us for $6.6B but we only want to use say 300M of our own money and get a loan for the rest.

    Then they bought Toys R Us but made them sell all assets to equity firms which then leased them back to Toys R Us so they could pay back the loans. This means Toys R Us are paying hundreds of million a year to cover loans and can’t put that money into making a better business.

    The private equity firms also made Toys R Us issue dividends in the hundreds of millions so private equity can make money.

    In the end private equity walked away with over $1B in profit whilst Toys R Us declared bankruptcy with $5B still left to pay.

    What a fucking insane system. Like how many people lost their jobs so these ghouls could make some extra cash off its downfall.

    And people think I’m crazy for making my life harder by not shopping at places like Amazon or being a pirate and not giving money to Netflix etc.

    I feel I am living in crazy land. Like the Uk has all our pensions and shit tied to the damn stock market, ensuring we can never really leave this system.

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  • [–] 63 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Sweet jesus. How is this not some kind of hyper mega ultra fraud?

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I have no idea and it seems insane to me.

    I was looking for the same thing in my country, UK, thinking we can’t be as bad as America, but nope many of the companies that have died during my life have been due to LBOs. The world is insane and I don’t see how we can change it.

    In the UK I learnt that Asda one of our largest supermarkets is in a similar place due to two brothers doing an LBO to buy it. Now it’s saddled with debt meaning it won’t be able to innovate like Tesco or Sainsbury’s and thus will likely just bleed customers. Makes me wonder why these two brothers with more money than God would want to carry on, like I literally can’t comprehend wanting more than you need. Perhaps I have different motivations as I see time as my most precious asset and will earn less money than I could just for the easier life of being able to chill more and do the things I like.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    It is insane. You're not crazy, or at least if you are we can be crazy together because I also think the whole thing is rotten to the core.

    It's pretty disgusting what the borgeousie get up to and away with. The whole world is broken. How we have decided society is going to work and run is all one big collective illusion anyways; we might as well make the mirage nicer for the majority of us humans instead of scrabbling like crabs climbing over one another to get to the top.

    Anyways, I think part of the problem is once you see the illusion there isn't much of anything to do about it as an individual because there's so much going on out of your control.

    I think that's a big part of why we're seeing more anxiety and depression than ever - because we know how we live (particularly in the west but really almost everywhere) is not sustainable, destroys the environment and causes suffering on a global scale but we keep dutifully existing quietly in the system as the cogs we are.

    I like all the stuff I have, I like my car and house and standard of living but I don't know if it would be feasible for the whole world to live like me and I'm not even rich or that well off. That's the real crazy part. I have some privilege, I know I'm at least better off than half of my fellow Americans ... But still I am just a proletariat like every other person working for wages.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    I'm kind of financially illiterate

    what part of the firm's actions were fraudulent? if they make an offer and toys r us accepts, there's nothing predatory going on is there?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    Many of these are hostile buyouts, which means they use their money to buy a majority of shares in the company and then overthrow the board. I don’t know if the Toys R Us sale was one of those though.

    And they’re not saying it is fraudulent. Just that it should be fraudulent.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    It's not hard to use financial trickery to temporarily tank a stock price making it easier to buy up a company. When redditors went after gamestop shortsellers, the shortsellers used tricks to dip the stockprice just low enough just temporarily enough to trigger margin calls and crush the redditors.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    It wasn't fraud but it was poor business decisions based on their hope for massive growth instead of seeing success as steady profitability. They sold off assets (real estate) and then signed up to lease the property back from the new real estate owners. This shifted assets to liabilities. They idea would be to use cash to grow the business. They took too much cash as distributions to investors instead of making sound long term business decisions that would keep ToysRUs operating for the long term.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    What I don't understand about the whole thing is who ends up holding the bag of all that debt?

    Like banks that lend them billions must be intelligent enough to know how private equity takeovers like this work. So if they lend them money, they surely would want to get that off their books asap. But who do they sell it to? I can't imagine there is any type of reinsurance for this, since insurance providers should know even better.

    I imagine some of the debt is to employees and small contractors, but can that really account for such a massive sum?

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    So the Equity Holders (The Private Equity firms) were largely shielded from risk as they had taken out billions in dividends and they had a small equity state relative to the debt meaning their downside was limited.

    The creditors (large banks) were left holding the bag, but they’d had years of interest payments so they wrote off the rest and likely still made some profit.

    Employees, suppliers, and landlords. Employees lose their jobs, suppliers get pennies on the dollar for what they’re owed and landlords might have got some money but still not all.

    So in short it was the banks, but don’t forget they had years of interest payments and after all they took the risk.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The banks can also technically short the stock as well once the buyout was public, knowing how shit the deal was they can make money on the downside at the expense of all the pensions, 401ks etc that had initially bought the stock. There also isnt a limit that prevents shorting the stock more than shares are in existence. Hence why the gamestop situation was close to breaking the whole stock market a few years back when they started turning everything around for the companies bottom line. With the stock now able to make it think a bout a billion more shares over time the out for the short side has been sort of given without completely nuking the market. But as when the shares are diluted is up to the board it allows gamestop to take advantage of the short side to create more cash on hand for themselves threw timing their market offerings to coincide with when swaps that are housing those shorts come due. In the toys r us case the executives and board were happy to take their golden parachute from the buyout and let ordinary people's pensions and 401ks carry the bag for them in the form of the stock going to zero and eventually being delisted from the market.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not sure this applies here as it was a private buyout meaning that there would be no stock to short.

    They could have shorted it before the buyout to get a better deal, but the banks didn’t buy it the just lent the money.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    So we make interest illegal and the whole scam falls apart, got it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    and if you do that most of the economy fails because no one wants a bond that does nothing

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  • Sadly the only way is a lot more Luigi’s. If more CEO’s start getting wigged off maybe they’ll lobby for change.

    Just sad that most people have it just good enough to not want to risk prison forever to murder someone, although if I could get away with it I’d have no issue in pulling the trigger on these ghouls.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Most debts are owned by the banks and the banks eat it. Then they have to make up the money somewhere else, so the costs go to the next round of borrowers, who then have to charge higher prices, so in the end we the consumer end up paying for it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Alot of debt gets bundled into bonds or other investment vehicles and sold. So small retail investors, retirement funds, etc end up holding the bag. Sometimes the banks lose, but they can take tax write offs and if the loses are too great, they can often get bailed out by the government.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    IIRC it was Mitt Romneys firm that did it to (technically after he left leadership, if i recall)

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Look up Cellar boxing, you’ll see all the companies that were driven out of business because of this strategy

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

    Truer now than when Henry Ford said it like a hundred years go.

    The SEC exists to shelter Self Regulating Organizations from any threats of democratic governance or law enforcement. Oh ya and to keep up the legalese charade that there literally is no such thing as counterfeit stock (because the Secret Service has purview over counterfeiting for some strange reason)

    Fuck the stock market 🖕

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Wasn't it Bain Capital (Mitt Romney's old place of work), or am I misremembering?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yes, that was one of them.

    From OP

    Basically, the company had to pay for its own buyout when private equity firms KKL, Vornado, and Bain bought the company for $6.6 billion, mostly with loans.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    And people think I’m crazy for making my life harder by not shopping at places like Amazon or being a pirate and not giving money to Netflix etc.

    You're not crazy; you're smart.

    The average person just doesn't want to accept how stupid they are.

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  • [+] -15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Its best to plan to not have a retirement fund. Plenty of communities just take care of each other instead.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I’m not sure what you mean. We have a state pension tied to the stock market.

    I also have a private pension too. I don’t see how not planning for retirement can be beneficial?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The UK state pension is largely a Ponzi scheme, no? Those paying tax now fund those receiving pensions now with some promise that they'll get returns in the future. The only difference is it's backed by the currency issuer and they're pretty up front about it.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I don’t know that I would call it a Ponzi scheme, although I could argue for it based on current trends.

    Basically, the everybody pays in to the state pension with the understanding that it pays for retired people. So yes people paying in now are covering those that have retired.

    The thing is now though is that birth rates are not keeping up with retirements, understandably as why would you have a child in this shit hole, so that means each year it’s harder and harder to pay for the pensioners.

    The above is incredibly funny when you look at this silly anti immigration rhetoric, we need more immigration to sustain old people not less. These fools will be shocked when they ban immigration and retire and the state is like yeah we got nothing.

    What’s worse is it isn’t means tested which I would support but many older people don’t as they see it as they paid in expecting it back where I see it as paying in to support those that need it.

    So I have two bosses one is amazing and very progressive and has never done wrong by their 6 employees. The other is not so much progressive and is soon to retire. He is selling his house for £500k, has lots in savings already and is taking his state pension because, and I quote “ I paid in so it’s mine”, now I can’t fathom this behaviour as I don’t want more than I need and would happily not take money if I can support myself.

    Alas, these are the people that vote so we are fucked.

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  • [–] 89 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    TIL: stock buybacks were considered insider trading before Reagan made them legal

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  • [–] 46 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Is there anything that Reagan hasn't fucked?

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  • [–] 84 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    The fact that they can buy a company by going into debt and immediately transfer the debt to the company is fucking insane. Maybe we need to figure out how we as individuals can do that and just fucking crash the lending industry entirely? Can I make my house buy itself for me and then "whoopsie, the house can't pay the bills, guess it will file for bankruptcy and hand me a big ol' stack of cash".

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    They will never, ever give us equal rules willingly. The only way that's going to happen is if we build a new financial system, immune to their Pinkertons and police.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You will not build a new financial system without structures of power. The best we can do is to understand the structures of power and how to combat them.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I'm not going to say exactly what it would take, but it rhymes with Bolotov Cocktail

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I couldn't possible know what you mean, but that sounds delicious.

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  • [–] 75 points 1 year ago

    A victim of the good ol leveraged buyout which should be fucking illegal right alongside stock buybacks.

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