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[–] [S] 88 points 1 year ago (48 children)

Side note. We need to do something, now. Only problem is, I don't know what

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Go to the Android developer verification site and fill out the Google Form in the bottom of the page on the right under Share your feedback.

    Give any employees inside google that agree with you the materials they need to show management it's unpopular even with developers, (even if you aren't actually one) and give Google's shareholders concern that this isn't just media speculation, it's real people with real concerns.

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  • [–] 75 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    It's the year of the linux phone

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    wonder if my phone carrier would be ok if i show up with a phone with a new OS they haven't heard about

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    They should not care as long as it has a compatible SIM/modem combo.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    They don’t care. Their job is solely to provide you with access to their cellular network. As long as you keep that tied to one device (and don’t phone clone, meaning share that access with multiple devices), they don’t care.

    If you’re leasing your phone from them, then I guess they’d care but really only when they get the phone back. It would be best to put everything back to stock when that time comes. Of course this means you’ll want to take care to install only what you’re comfortable with and what you know works and won’t permanently damage the phone.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Jumping ship isn't really "doing something"

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Gservices you can simply remove via Adb, and MicroG has a magisk module

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I've successfully debloated two googled ROMs before, once in stock and the other on a custom ROM with GApps prebuilt, and while you can debloat major parts like Google play and Google services, minor parts cause annoying crashes and functionality loss if you debloated it to get a full degoogled ROM, at that point , using a Vanilla ROM is better

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    The answer is likely a de-googled phone. We have some aftermarket variants of Android available. Though installing a new operating system on a phone isn't very mainstream. And skipping the Play services comes with consequences. Push notifications sometimes won't work, some apps outright refuse to work, and things like contactless payment are impossible. I've lived without Play services for a few years. Now I have them sandboxed in GrapheneOS. I wonder what they're going to do to address this.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Even with Play Services enabled on GrapheneOS through Sandboxed Google Play, this wouldn't affect it, as this would be a system-level change that only affects stock Android and OEM-modified variants of Android that are "Certified Android"

    GrapheneOS would not have to put much, if any effort into blocking this.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Does contactless pay work in the sandbox? What about ticket apps like mlb ballpark?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    I'm pretty sure Google locks us out and Google Pay is impossible, despite the operating system being more secure, having hardware attestation and not even being rooted.

    Ticket and banking apps sometimes work, sometimes they don't. They're doing their best and a lot of things are fine. There's a community maintained list for banking apps here: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago

    The solution is what it has always been.

    Since DAY ONE phone hardware should have been as standardized and open as normal PC hardware - able to run any operating system that you want.

    But every time it got brought up for DECADES, techbro corporate apologists were ready to line up and talk about all the reasons that wouldn't work and how companies would NEVER do that, as if that was some kind of sensible counterpoint.

    Now the noose is closing and all it's going to take is the combined forces of the richest companies in the world to crush what little competition remains. Undercut or sue Fairphone into oblivion, for example. The lawsuits don't even have to have merit - they can eat the costs for a few quarters to ensure no viable alternative to the walled garden ever gets a foothold.

    The thing to be done now is minimize your mobile usage altogether and try to make it to the tech dystopian endgame with a few local files of your own left.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    Honestly, given the ID requirements this feels like more efforts to track everything everyone does. It means any app with sufficient user base is trackable back to a real person. A real person they can arrest, bully or otherwise deal with if they don't like what they've built.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    We need reboot of N900. Although it lost support long time ago as it was launched in 2009, you can still install latest PostmarketOS onto it: https://postmarketos.org/install/

    A commercial Linux phone with backing from some larger company could succeed.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I picked one of these up around 2015 and used it as my main phone for ~2 years. It's a cool phone and I had a great time messing around with it.

    Unfortunately the hardware is just into up to modern requirements - old modem means bad signal, old WiFi standard, really low RAM, very slow processor. The browser was barely usable even with an adblocker.

    Sadly the Neo900 never got off the ground.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    If you are an EU citizen then you need report this to the consumer protection services.

    Here are some links I have found. There might be better ways to contact them but this is what I got for now. Feel free to correct me or add more ways to make our voices heard.

    https://commission.europa.eu/

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/selling-in-eu/competition-between-businesses/anti-competitive-behaviour/

    If you are unsure about the problem, you can contact the European Commission at: comp-market-information@ec.europa.eu or write to:

    European Commission, Directorate General for Competition Antitrust Registry B-1049 Brussels, Belgium

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    LineageOS? Aosp is still under Google control, so maybe not.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I think the problem is that this is one part of the puzzle. Samsung are doing the other half. Locked bootloader. I fully expect the bigger manufacturers to go with both for a "fully trusted platform". That's how they will sell it at least.

    The only question is, who will be making the unlocked phones and how much will they cost us?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    The only question is, who will be making the unlocked phones and how much will they cost us?

    Fairphone probably. To my knowledge Fairphone 6 can be unlocked and for the less technical, who want to degoogle, they also sell Fairphone 6 with /e/os installed. You won't get a competitive price for the hardware but rather a fair price for the hardware and under capitalism fair isn't competitive because the competition regularly resorts to exploitation of third world resources and cheap labor.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    My man I hate to say this but pretty sure lineage kicked the bucket last year, at least that what was happening when I had to change phones last year and Got the community notification

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Latest Github commits are within the past hour... Why do you think that it's dead?

    https://github.com/LineageOS

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Because there was a heartfelt goodbye and everything in the matrix server for it, last I was aware, yeah, they were saying it was dead. Good thing it's back though

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Matrix exists to contain people whose schizo power level was too high for discord and it has no other function. You can safely ignore 100% of all activity on matrix servers and that percentage is not an exaggeration.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    Fork Android?

    For years Android people were yapping about how it’s open source, open platform and the competitors are not. So why not just fork it and keep on? Isn’t that the strongest point of being open source?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    There's already a bunch of forks, GrapheneOS and LineageOS being two of the most popular.

    Trouble is, this affects the app ecosystem. The overwhelming majority of applications are only available through the Play Store. Sure, there are alternatives like F-Droid, but your bank isn't offering its app through F-Droid.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Theres a high likelyhood your bank still allows access through a web browser. I think a lot of people forget that browser shortcuts that you can add to your home are a thing that makes a lot of apps partially if not fully redundant.

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    [+] 74 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I don't think it's about the data. There's not much volume here. I think instead it's about blocking apps they don't like. Like some pesky ad blocking apps for YouTube. They know more people would reach for YouTube adblockers as they keep increasing the ads on the free tier as well as the price of the Premium tier. The way to prevent that is to make it extremely difficult to install such apps.

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Do you think they won't have a provision to revoke developer's signing keys for reasons they determine? If they don't, the whole malware-fighting angle would be meaningless. Once developer's keys are revoked, their apps become uninstallable on Android that ships with Google apps. They could also easily uninstall apps signed with revoked keys.

    I assume they'll do this using chain of trust where they give signing keys to verified devs so that the apps don't have to be signed by Google, but Android can still check if an app was signed by a Google-issued key.

    E: Looking at this it says:

    Register your apps

    You'll need to prove you own your apps by providing your app package name and app signing keys.

    So you give your keys and I suppose they allowlist that package and keys. That means they'll be able to revoke individual apps as well as dev keys.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Is that right!? Giving up the app signing keys would allow Google to publish anything in your name. This sounds like a nightmare.
    Surely there could be some equivalent to DNS confirmation by adding a key provided by Google to a txt record (or the signed app)

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Are there currently any viable alternatives to Android and iPhone?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    the easiest path would be Chinese phones without GMS like Huawei,OPPO,vivo,Xiaomi,Honor

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Didn't they ban Huawei phones in the US

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    You're gonna own nothing and you're gonna be free...

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah this is going to affect android in multiple ways. I'm guessing that the emulators and YouTube apps are out, the Devs will have all their apps banned if they bother to register.

    Personally I have a developer account but some apps I give away as open source. Now I'm going to have to register those apps and if one of them isn't up to Google's standards (whatever they say that is on the day) then ALL of my apps get banned!

    I have multiple old android devices which can't use lineagos because they are locked or just too obscure. But right now they can be used with f-droid apps for games and ad-free content. I'm guessing that's going to change.

    The barrier to entry will go up and even more old android devices will be thrown away. Make sure you buy a mainstream device that has a chance of being supported beyond the manufacturers 2 year support window - in my experience mobile and tablets actual lifespan is 4-5 years, up to 10 with new battery. Why are we forced to throw them away after 2 years? It's a total scam.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago*

    Of course it's a scam. But its also a money grab and a power grab. Google is completely gone from "do no evil" to "heil Trump"

    What's worse, is that I do self hosting and almost all self host apps are open source on the android side, so now I may loose several of those apps if they don't want to sign or are banned by Google.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Graphene OS is working well for me and installation was pretty straightforward. As people have said, though, it needs access to the bootloader.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    And a Pixel - the only device it currently runs on (not a criticism, it's because Pixel is the only device with a TPM).

    Lineage runs on a lot more phones. It's nit as secure as Graphene, but arguably more secure than what a phone ships with.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yep. Unfortunately, Graphene requires further investment in google products. Buy used/refurbished! Or go with Lineage.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'd say its as secure but not as private as Graphene.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I think you are mixing up the two terms.

    Lineage OS is way less secure than Graphene OS. Lineage OS doesn't even officially support Re-Locking of bootloader under custom keys, so it could be easily tampered with, and they also lack all the hardening that Graphene OS have.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I find this unbeliable.

    But, maybe, this will finally make some viable mobile Linux alternatives exist?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm curious to understand how Google defines "malicious apps" that they're using as the justification for this.

    Conceivably, google revoking a certificate will mean an app installed outside of google play, will stop working for users.

    How do they feel about celebrite? And the other companies that violate user privacy as their sole reason for existing. Will they still get "permission" for their apps? Seems like a great way to protect users by not issuing one to them...

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    This will be an amazing gift to open-source devices. Android has been the elephant in the room, open and free enough and too huge to ignore.

    When the elephant goes away, a lot of people will be free to innovate.

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I thought Tizen was cool, though I never used it.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    It's so upsetting. Makes me want to start recommending iPhones (only partially out of spite).

    Edit: you can downvote, but can you tell me what the difference is at this point?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You can still get some Android phones with relatively easily repaired hardware. And for innovative third party hardware your only option is still going to be Android.

    I wish there were some way to effectively protest this decision they've made, but I can't think of anything they'd actually care about unless nearly all developers objected.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I may have been a little hyperbolic but it's still a huge selling point lost for the majority.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    To add bootloader unlocking probably isn't going anywhere soon so at least you have the option to run something like graphene on Android devices.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This only affects android phones with Google Play Services installed. So degoogled phones won't have any issue. Please look into custom ROMS or alternatives.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Sadly they are clamping down on that front too. AOSP is no longer being developed in the open. They are also moving to a standardised internal emulator instead of releasing the "recipe" to build on real hardware development platforms (aka pixel phones)

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Well as of now I have switched to GrapheneOS. (that is why I replied late). At least I believe I have pushed back enough for the time being before google ultimately decides to fully close source Android around 2030 (calling it now).

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Oh cool, looks like my next phone is going to be an apple huh...

    Minimal apps, heavily browser reliant, and android can go fuck itself.

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