Iowa city council debates proper time in meeting agenda to "undo the curse that was just put on our city."

An Iowa man has kicked off controversy over religious freedom in the small town of Ottumwa, Iowa by opening a city council meeting with a prayer to Satan, which then kicked off a debate about the proper time in the meeting agenda to undo the “curse.”

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[–] [S] 322 points 1 month ago (12 children)

People often seem to forget that “Religious Freedom” means all religions, not just yours.

Never mind the importance of the separation of church and skate state

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  • [–] 176 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    I'm glad you fixed it. Some priests are not down with the separation of church and skate.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 month ago (4 children)
  • [–] 50 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    separation of church and skate

    sings

    Now, Heaven would be a DJ spinning dub all night long

    And Heaven would be just kicking back with Jesus packing my bong

    And if you don't believe in Jesus, then Muhammad or Buddha, too

    And while the world is warring, we just sit back and laugh at you, singing

    If I die before I wake

    At least in Heaven, I can skate

    'Cause right now on Earth, I can't do jack

    Without the man up on my back

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  • [–] 48 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    You will literally hear dumb fuck xtians argue until they are blue in the face that what the Founders really meant to do was to merely allow you to choose among an array of xtian sects. Maybe if you are spicy, you'll be permitted to be Jewish, because well, Jesus was a Jew. And we will "tolerate" that.

    Other xtians just seem to view "religious freedom" as "xtians get special privileges and they should be able to treat certain groups less-than if it suits them".

    And man, they'll definitely get butthurt when you point out that the First pretty much requires that you have freedom FROM as well as freedom OF. And that "OF" means....anything, not just xtianity. I'll be a fucking pagan on Monday, fuck you very much because of that OF, and if I please, I'll be an atheist on Tuesday because of the FROM. Because that's real religious freedom.

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  • [–] 182 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (10 children)

    That prayer is fire.

    Dear dark father, let us stand now unbowed and unfettered by arcane doctrines born of fearful minds and darkened times. Let us embrace the Luciferan impulse to eat off the tree of knowledge and dissipate our blissful and comforting delusions of old.”

    Let us demand that individuals be judged for their concrete actions, not for their fealty to arbitrary social norms and illusory categorizations,” he continued. “Let us reason our solutions with agnosticism in all things, holding fast only to that which is demonstrably true. Let us stand firm against any and all arbitrary authority that threatens the personal sovereignty of one or all. That which will not bend must break. And that which can be destroyed by truth should never be spared its demise.”“It is done. Hail Satan,”

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  • [–] 101 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    What's ridiculous about it is, if any of the people who were offended actually sat down and analyzed the wording, the only thing they could reasonably object to is the "Hail Satan" at the end. Which illustrates the entire problem with Christian Nationalism. They don't care about the content, only the branding.

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  • [–] 61 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    No, there are religious people that object heavily to truth seeking. One must only have faith, you don’t need truth!

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Jesus freak here and I concur. This prayer is a 10/10 no notes.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Actually yes, kinda, lol. Not religious but definitely trying to live in a Christlike manner. Everything in that prayer is a call to the highest, godliest principles. If anyone who claims the name of Jesus has a problem with it, they're wolves in sheep's clothing. But I don't think I need to tell y'all that :3

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  • [–] 127 points 1 month ago (14 children)

    At the Tuesday night council meeting, the audience stood up to recite the Pledge of Allegiance the moment Dalbey finished.

    The dubiousness of unquestioning nationalism aside, the pledge of allegiance containing 'under god' also makes it a religious phrase.

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  • [–] 58 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    It's honestly so weird. The whole ritual needs to be done away with

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    They should do as Alcoholics Anonymous did. Change god for "higher power". Because, you know, people need a higher power nanny.

    BTW: Alcoholics Anonymous has a direct surrender to God in 4 of it's 12 steps, and indirect mention in 2 more. And god is obviously a "Him"

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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago

    AA was started by a pair of Christian revivalist Oxford Group (now known as Initiatives of Change) members. They believe that fear and selfishness are the root of all problems, and that the solution to living without fear and selfishness is to "surrender one's life over to God's plan".

    Basically, they don't think people, in general, can govern themselves and require a sky daddy to keep them on track.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Even if they removed 'under god' from the pledge of allegiance today (Republicans would probably filibuster any such attempt in the Senate), indoctrinating students at public schools with its daily recital has contributed to an unhealthy level of nationalism that leads to not only a view of American exceptionalism, but also the belief that any overt or covert attempt to replace the governance of foreign countries with institutions closer to that of the United States must inherently be good.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    they added the Under God part during the Red Scare to show the world that the US wasn't a secular godless nation like the USSR at the time.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    That's also when they started putting "In God we trust" on our money. Assholes.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Even as a kid growing up in the 90s, knowing separation and state and finding it odd as fuck we had "In God this and that" in various aspects of our lives. Even my developing,, super small brain could tell something didn't add up right. 🤨️

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  • [–] 109 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    They only want religious freedom when they're using their religion as an excuse to infringe on other people's rights. Hail Satan.

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  • [–] 92 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Rick Bick is a party pooper. Don't be a dick, Rick Bick.

    The prayer is a common one used by the Satanic Temple of Iowa. “Let us demand that individuals be judged for their concrete actions, not for their fealty to arbitrary social norms and illusory categorizations,” he continued. “Let us reason our solutions with agnosticism in all things, holding fast only to that which is demonstrably true. Let us stand firm against any and all arbitrary authority that threatens the personal sovereignty of one or all. That which will not bend must break. And that which can be destroyed by truth should never be spared its demise.”“It is done. Hail Satan,” he finished.

    Another citizen, a pastor named Rick Bick, rushed to the podium. “Let’s just reverse that curse that was just put on our city,” he said. “That ending with hail Satan and hail dark god. That’s not welcome here.”

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  • [–] 64 points 1 month ago

    Let us demand that individuals be judged for their concrete actions, not for their fealty to arbitrary social norms and illusory categorizations.

    Let us reason our solutions with agnosticism in all things, holding fast only to that which is demonstrably true.

    Let us stand firm against any and all arbitrary authority that threatens the personal sovereignty of one or all.

    That which will not bend must break. And that which can be destroyed by truth should never be spared its demise.

    Think about it. To me that sounds like a literal slice of heaven, especially that last line.

    But this guy's convinced it's a curse. Either that or the multi-syllabic big words made him scared.

    Sounds like Rick Bick is thick as a fucking brick.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Honestly it’s very hard to argue with anything in that prayer, it’s pretty reasonable and clear.

    Only thing I don’t like is the call for judging. I do think people can change, they should be judged on their actions and intents, but we should reasonably allow for second chances and improvement.

    One thing Christianity is good at is taking people who feel irredeemable and reassuring them that they’re still people with a chance in life. As long as people see their wrongs and try to improve, I think we can and should forgive some things.

    I hate the people who continue being shit then say God forgives them or Jesus died for them so it’s all washed out. That’s the same energy as throwing stuff on the ground because there’s a janitor. You are responsible for your actions and their impacts, just asking for forgiveness shouldn’t grant it without sincerely understanding and trying to improve.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Imagine being a grown-ass man listening to this, taking the stage and unironically saying “that was a curse put on our city, and most of you know that”. They actually fucking believe that some guy saying “Hail Satan” has the power to “curse” a city.

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  • [–] 90 points 1 month ago* (9 children)

    Another citizen, a pastor named Rick Bick, rushed to the podium. “Let’s just reverse that curse that was just put on our city,” he said. “That ending with hail Satan and hail dark god. That’s not welcome here.”

    “Mayor, that should be done at the end,” city councilor Cara Galloway said.

    “It needs to be done now, OK.” Rick said. “I appreciate what Ms. Galloway is saying but that was a curse put on our city when he said ‘Hail Satan’ and the dark god and most of you know that. And we need to just stop and reverse it.”

    “So what I’m gonna do now…I’m just gonna invite us into a 30 second time of prayer — time of silence.”

    “No,” Galloway said. “We are at the consent agenda. I’m sorry, but it’s time to move forward. The invocation happened.”

    “As mayor of this city…I’m going to ask right now that we do a moment of silence to reflect on whatever it is we need to reflect on at this time. And then we will move to the consent agenda,” mayor Benjamin Foote said.

    I should start giving incantations, that reaction is gold.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I used to be a preacher, and am still a Christian. I also have given money to the Satanic Temple because the work they do is important.

    Separation of church and state is good for the government, the churches, and society at large.

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  • [–] 86 points 1 month ago

    "No, not like that!"

    They say "religion" but what they really mean is "christofascism"

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  • [–] 64 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    What's the matter Rick? Too much freedom for you?

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  • [–] 31 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    That's something most Americans don't understand about our history. We love to claim that the first settlers in the modern-day states (Puritans mostly) were 'fleeing religious persecution' and sought a new land where they could gain 'freedom of religion'. Pretty much all of that is wrong, they were a fringe early-Protestant group who wanted to distance themselves from the new Church of England which they felt was still too Catholic. Once they got here, anything and everything they considered too heretical was... well, see the Salem Witch Trials for a prime example. They were the epitome of "freedom for me, not for thee" and that attitude/practice went on to infect the whole rest of the country as history progressed.

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  • [–] 127 points 1 month ago (7 children)
  • [–] 51 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Does he drive taxis? Or are you just forecasting the weather to him?

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  • [–] 28 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    He's got a flat rate to and from the airport

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  • [–] 57 points 1 month ago

    And that which can be destroyed by truth should never be spared its demise.

    🔥🔥🔥

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  • [+] 56 points 1 month ago (18 children)
  • [–] 52 points 1 month ago (17 children)

    I mean, that is kindof Satan's whole deal.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago* (14 children)

    Naw. In Christian theology…. Satan is god’s henchman.

    You’d think these law and order type Christians would love his loyal and dedicated service…

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  • [–] 35 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Satan is a title. Before the King James Version, the title of Satan was used like a black hat in an old western movie. It’s not any one person or entity, it is whomever acts as the opponent for the specific story.

    The KJV wanted to make the Bible more approachable for the average person, because the Church of England had a very “it’s only for the rich and powerful” vibe that it was trying to shake. One of the ways it did this was by simplifying some concepts like Satan, condensing the multiple Satans into a single recurring entity.

    That’s also why the KJV leans so heavily into the thee’s and thou’s. That was informal language at the time, mostly used by the peasant class. And if you’re trying to make a book more approachable to the peasants, you write it in peasant-speak. Ironically, we tend to think of “thee” and “thou” as sounding extremely haughty, but it’s because the peasants always emulated the rich. The rich used “you” and “yours” instead, so that’s what the peasants eventually gravitated towards to try and sound proper. And now to modern speakers, “thee” and “thou” sound like they’re from an era of kings and queens, so we tend to associate them with royalty instead of the peasants who actually spoke it.

    You’re thinking of Lucifer, who is often God’s henchman before he rebels. His whole schtick was that God would tell Lucifer to go tempt some mortals, to see if they pass His purity test. And Lucifer, being God’s most perfect creation, was immediately disarming and charming. Nobody would be tempted by a dude who obviously looks like a devil. God basically sent Lucifer (the world’s most solid California 10 with a disarming personality) down to earth, to tempt the dirty mortals (who pulled teeth to try and cure the common cold, and had probably never seen anything above an unwashed Iowa 1.5).

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    That's an interesting interpretation of Lucifer given he's the Serpent in the garden which is supposedly after his fall..

    But then again what isn't contradictory about the Bible?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    All that to say god had more than one henchman.

    Which isn’t untrue. Not that most Christians understand this.

    The KJV was also meant to be aligned with Anglican theology over Catholic theology (namely papal authority… which anglicans held belonged to… the king….)

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  • [–] -5 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    Now, I'm no religion expert, but isn't Satan the first cast out angel of heaven, doomed to rule over hell for all eternity? Doesn't sound "henchman" to me. Sounds more like the guy who can't leave his job getting all the clients the other guy doesn't want to manage.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    The original Bible doesn't mention any kind of Satan.

    It's an adaptation from the later Quran terminology shaytaan or al-Shaytan, which means demon, devil, evil spirit, anything that is against God.

    In the Quran the first shaytaan is also said to be Iblis, the first fallen angel (equivalent of Lucifer, as the origin story matches up quite closely).

    Later Bible translations adopted this terminology as the name Satan, but in reality it's more of a title as above explained - it can be applied to any hell-dweller who's gone against God.

    Then of course this morphed into many meanings... so there's multiple ways to interpret it:

    • as Lucifer's title for his rebellion
    • as a distinct prince of hell in demonology
    • as a general term for any evildoer who's specifically against god

    all in all, it's basically the worst religious insult one can use.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    the worst religious insult one can use.

    Christ's cum-dumpster, that's the worst they've got?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I mean, being named the ultimate enemy that must be vanquished at any cost IS pretty much up there with the worst possible insults.

    It's not worst in the sense of being the most vulgar, most outrageous statement. It's the worst in the sense of it being the highest insult of one.

    I mean imagine if I stated that in the name of all Europeans, YOU are public enemy number one. That you've done egregious acts against all Europeans that must not be tolerated, that must be avenged at all cost. That from now on, all Europeans have the right to exterminate you.

    It is a pretty high insult, isn't it?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    More akin to the guy who thought he could do the job better then his boss quit in a huff and opened his own business. Then proceed to just get bought out by his old boss and now is fucked twice.

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