The exact same thing they said about japanese-made cars in the 70s and in both cases they were right because american cars are trash.
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Well too fucking bad UAW and NADA both supported trump and now here come the leopards to eat their faces.
Trump pisses off our closest ally Canada and now they have given a toe hold in NA to China, and continue to boycott America products and tourism. The tourism alone has taken away 1.3 billion so far this year.
Chinese cars are coming and there's nothing these fucks can do about.
Fuck them.
It's wild people are still surprised about union corruption...
Corporations and the government have an incentive for corrupt unions, so they're not going to reign in the problematic ones.
It's on the voting members of every union to keep their own union in line.
They literally just vote for whatever benefits their industry directly.
Military was the same way, I got lined and my direct chain walked a very fine line talking about if we wanted to vote for someone that would expand the military meaning more slots for promotions, or someone that would reduce by attrition and no one gets promotions for four years.
It's a real thing and should be obvious to anyone, which again is why it's wild people don't know why it keeps happening.
When resources are scarce people get selfish.
We fight that by ensuring everyone has enough so they don't have to feel selfish, then we can out otw the minority who will always be selfish.
UAW and NADA both supported trump
Where are you getting that from?, UAW endorsed Harris and Biden also put a huge tariff on Chinese EVs and harris seems like she would've continued that.
Its because they don't actually want free markets. They want captive markets in a corrupt system that they can influence. The last thing want is to be forced to make a decent product at an affordable price
It wouldn't be devastating if you read the room and made AFFORDABLE ANYTHING. Why do you think your own company couldn't keep the $20k Maverick in stock for years? Why do you think your $100k Lightning didn't sell well?
Make affordable, decent vehicles, and you won't have to worry about overseas competition.
Capitalists don't like honest competition, since it requires them to research positive innovations.
But Marx tells us (in Das Kapital ) that the capitalist will always be seek to bypass regulations and ultimately capture the regulating government.
And yes, the scientific advancements of the moon shots returned $14 for every $1 spent. Using that as a reference, lobbying federal and state governments return $120 for every $1 spent.
TIL private equity consolidated all the firetruck manufacturers into a single entity, and then slowed the rate of production, more than doubling the price and the wait time. Firehouses can no longer afford trucks.
Honestly, calling people like this Capitalists is like likening all communists to Stalin. The idea of capitalism is based on competition. If you are eroding competition, you are eroding capitalism.
But Marx tells us (in Das Kapital ) that the capitalist will always be seek to bypass regulations and ultimately capture the regulating government.
I am assuming he neglected to mention that the same type of people will seek to capture the government in any system. Socialist, communist, capitalist, feudal, doesn't matter.
The means they use to capture the government are different. To intention is the same.
This appears the fundamental flaw in every single governance system we've tried thus far. The sociopaths will always take over, consolidate power, and abuse and exploit everyone else for their own benefit.
Capitalism or Communism, both as vulnerable, both have failed for the same reasons as far as I can make out.
The irony is: the original theory of capitalism (in contrast with the clusterfuck that we have now) was based on the idea that competition breeds innovation - because those who didn't innovate would go out of business due to being surpassed by the others.
And China is kinda steamrolling US in a lot of markets right now.
Mostly in the areas of custom fabs, general manufacturing and not being run by fucking idiots.
I don't work in manufacturing, in work for a giant popular retail company.
I swear to Christ, I have zero clue how it has survived under the gross incompetence of our leadership. I have never witnessed such stupidity in all my life.
These guys are beyond the pale. Getting mad and emotional and making stupid decisions on vibes. When their nonsense fails, they just blame it on anything but themselves and do the next dumb thing. If we didn't have stores everywhere, we would be dead. We only survive because you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one.
They have subsidize the shit out of their industry by keeping their citizens capital tied up in their banking, housing and stock market. It is hard to get capital out of China now and only the very wealthy can pull it off.
So yes if the government took a good chunk of the interest or revenues you’d make from your investments yes you can have the same subsidized industries.
In their defense they are also willing to let bad companies go under which is something the US hasn’t done since the 90s.
That's kind of missing the forest for the trees
They have more than two times the population of the EU and US combined, and the manufacturing capacity for basically the rest of the world.
They have enough population so that whenever there's a new tech/infrastructure to spin up, they'll do it internally and then come out internationally with a finished & field-tested version of that product.
They also have more PHDs, research and patents than anywhere else in the world, integrated in their industrial ecosystem. That's like a silicon valley but for basically every field of manufature, research etc.
And to address your first paragraph: Yes, if instead of value extraction for shareholders, which is literally capitalism, we reinvested all of that cash back into the economy as subsidies, we would also be thriving. That's not a diss on China, that's a failure on the US/EU.
The population figures you’ve cited coming out of China are dubious at best. Births have been repeatedly found to be overstated and school age populations are plummeting faster than anticipated because of local corruption when reporting their birth figures. Bottom line China is rapidly aging with few young workers to take the place of their existing workforce. That isn’t to say there isn’t a lot of them, but it isn’t nearly enough to sustain anything closely to replacement.
You missed the point entirely about my capital markets comment. Put simply the CCP direct any profits the average citizen has with their capital to subsidize industries. The citizen sees no benefit from their work only an elite few who have connections with the CCP do.
It’s akin to the US government directing capital towards building data centers which consume millions of gallons of fresh water, get subsidized electricity and a elite few who will benefit from their creation while local citizens bear the brunt of utility increases. However in the US you can fight it and vote in a new governing party to stop it. In China there is only the CCP so they just have to endure it. The West isn’t perfect but if you feel the CCP has a superior system I’d question your judgement.
That was the lie that was sold. It has always been about exploitation.
When they want to move manufacturing or people lose their jobs ... these guys are all "this is just business".
Capitalism is when the government buys a stake in Intel, or tries to invest in AI companies or tariffs the world, or ...
Devastating... like having Dump's policies close your manufacturing locations down and have to layoff all the workers? That kind of devastation?
Once again proving that corporations have no beliefs apart from "Make more money."
The Ford that has moved a bunch of their manufacturing to Mexico after carving out a tariff exemption from vehicles manufactured there?
I love competition! Except when I lose then competition is bad I need to change the rules so I'm the only one who wins. Yes I am way more deserving than other humans because I am me. And me is better.
Checkmate!
Wait, new rule you have to checkmate twice in a row to win.
Checkmate again!
New rule it only counts if we just ate salmon before playing.
Very good dish, checkmate!
New rule, you have to be me to checkmate.
Nooooo, you have to let us ship all aspects of car manufacturing overseas while we pocket the profits and use that money to attack green energy!
I want a BYD very badly. A lot of people to blame here, Government for propping up a subpar product, unions for going too far with demands, aging and complacent workforce, lack of reinvestment, executive greed, piss poor repair record... Damn I want one of the Chinese EV's. Let free market be free.
Ironic that Ford initially had to fight a 'car mafia' that he didn't want to pay their fee on every car he sold. Ford was trying to make sure workers were able to afford his cars for cheap and he couldn't do that if he had to pay the extra money.
He just went ahead and started selling his cars and fought them in court and won. Now his company is using the courts in order to stifle competition that wants to sell cheaper cars to the workers.
Chinese cars can't be sold in the US?
Was this the fat dude in an episode of house who was like totally happy being fat and insisted that his disease had nothing to do with his weight?
There's plenty of competition in the US auto market, both from US, Japanese and European brands.
The difference is these cars are either made in the US or in countries with similar enough wages. Even cars made in mexico are required to have a $16 minimum wage as part of USMCA.
China is on a different level and allowing them to sell cars here without restrictions would cause a race to the bottom for wages in the auto sector, pushing back a lot of wins the UAW has gotten recently.
If they want to sell cars here they should get the same deal as mexico, require a minimum wage and labor standards.
Why would cars be different from phones and other electronics?
A union fought for standard livable wages. There are A LOT of unionized autoworkers. Huge number, maybe millions.
Cell phones were always an oversea item. Electronics were moved off shore for cost savings but also because they size of components/ technology changed. Asia was a huge developer of these techs. I used to work in this industry.
Just because one industry was destroyed doesn't mean you should destroy others.
Didn't say they were, almost all products these days are made by the exploitation of cheap labor in the third world.
Only difference is there still exists a manufacturing capacity to produce cars here that we can preserve instead of letting it die at the alter of globalization.
Other than us crazies on the left, I don't remember anyone giving a fuck when industries were being obliterated in the global south because of WTO rules. All I remember is stories about competitive advantage, English cloth and Portuguese wine.
If a manufacturer without labor laws competes with a manufacturer with labor laws it’s just not a fair fight
Are you referring to the US as the country without labor rights?
- China does not allow at-will employment
- Non-compete agreements in China are extremely limited and rarely applied to anyone below senior management
- Wages and overtime are (theoretically) more strict than the US
- China has paid vacation time that increases through years of employment regardless of company, more public holidays, marriage leave, parental leave, bereavement leave, and more
- Discrimination and harassment must be proactively prevented in Chinese workplaces (though US workers are more aggressive in pursuing legal rights)
- Chinese workers earn a pension, along with several types of social insurances
- Workplace health and safety enforcement is increasing in China, as opposed to weakening enforcement in the US
- Severance pay is required on most instances of termination in China (exceptions for performance and conduct exist)
America is nuts.
America has modern day slavery and we have states that are squishing the child labor laws.
Not to mention many folks who retire in America will be destitute because there is no social safety net.
Disgusting to hear about elders living in cars. It really sucks and to be honest me and my whole family are only a few paychecks away from losing everything. All the while expenses are increasing much fast than our income. We are starting to consider desperate ideas like making our own bread instead of buying it just to save money. Things are getting progressively more bonkers.
Fundamentally it all comes down to wages, US workers can't compete with Chinese workers who will do the same job for far less.
Even on the benefits side all of what you listed above and more is common for auto workers in the US because they have an independent union, and even the workers who are not in the union get the same benefits as the manufacturers compete for workers. Meanwhile independent unions are not allowed in China so they're at the mercy of the employers and the CCP. Granted the CCP does seem to care about workers more then the US government, neither care nearly as much as the UAW.
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