"might stop anyone from 3D printing guns"
I can guarantee you that it won't even do that.
"might stop anyone from 3D printing guns"
I can guarantee you that it won't even do that.
This goes way, way beyond 'guns.' It is an assault on property rights and freedom of expression as concepts generally. It would fully outlaw Free Software firmware (which is what the entire 3D printer hobby, having started with the RepRap project, is based on!). It would cut the Maker movement as a whole off at the knees.
It's absolute tyranny in ways entirely unrelated to guns themselves.
When you consider how many students were shoot with 3d printed guns... Oh wait, those were all manufactured by a proper business, carry on then, we don't want to interrupt big businesses.
They act like we have this big problem with 3d printed guns. This is about control not safety.
It's funny, I live in a country with very few privately owned guns, where ammo is tracked and everything.
No 3d printed gun murders have taken place here. Why would they happen in the US where anyone can just get a real gun?
Murders aren't happening with Ghost guns, but big bro is scared and they came up with a scary name to scare the general public.
3D printed gun parts were actually from the makers community where they're not malicious, they're customizing grips and handguards and other parts for uniqueness and customization. Reproducing movie and game guns for fun. Capitalist daddy didn't like then making something "for nothing" vs spending Lots of money with retailers and manufacturers, so it slowly became a problem when it caught on and everyone stated making their own.
ONE thing caught attention, and that was 3D printed parts that basically jam a trigger mechanism in Glocks allowing them to fire multiple rounds with a single trigger pull. Now magically these people became awful criminals who are intentionally selling "ghost guns" by the masses that's a huge problem with 1000s being recovered by police... Only I completely made up that whole last part. See if easy to seem believable if there's the slightest credibility involved. I've not seen more than a few dozen maybe recovered guns with 3d printed parts. Most all of them are still regular manufactured parts with 3d "accessories" because you can't print the metal barrel (definitely not reliably) and other parts that would otherwise have a serial number you can now get away without a registration.
Are 3d printed guns even a problem? This whole thing is just a way to destroy peoples ability to do anything on their own, or repair anything.
Not nearly as much of a problem as real guns that's for goddamn sure.
3D printing working, safe-to-handle and durable guns is a pretty complicated technical problem. Don't need to be a genius to figure out that making 100% plastic guns is asking for trouble. Tiny explosion = big plastic cracky.
Meanwhile, any monkey can bash together pieces of scrap metal and produce a durable gun that way. And that was a thing long, long before 3D printers existed.
3d printed guns aren't 100% plastic. In fact the only part that's printed is the only part actually considered a firearm in the US, the receiver. You know, that gun shaped object that Glock themselves make out of plastic. All other parts, barrel, slide, magazine, springs, trigger, etc are all purchased without any controls or background checks and then assembled into a firearm on the 3d printed receiver.
They work amazingly well for what they are and they hold up for many many rounds.
No. It's made up nonsense, like 99% of justifications for gun laws. The people writing the laws are rarely actually knowledgeable on the subject they're writing legislation for.
Wow, they are doing so much to stop guns from getting into the wrong hands. I'm really glad the everyday issue of 3d printed guns will finally be solved.
Wait until they find out that you can make a shotgun with some galvanized pipe and a nail.
New laws in California and New York might stop people from 3D printing guns
It absolutely, positively, will not do that. If someone wants to print a gun, no legislation is going to stop them. It could at best, slow them down by maybe an hour, as they find, download and install different firmware for their printer.
If you want to prevent people from printing guns, you'll need a different tactic, because that won't do it.
I rember in the US police had an event where in an effort that has had some success getting guns off the street is they were paying $200 per gun you turned in, including ghost guns no questions asked. Some legend heard about the event and quickly made quite a few working guns out of 2"x4"s, metal plumbing pipe, and a nail. He only used basic tools like a drill and angle grinder from what I remember. The police had to pay him too, but I think they changed the rules after
One problem the left especially the global left outside the US has when they talk about gun control they flat out do not understand how things work when so many people want something as much as people want guns in the US. Also how hard it would be to actually change the constitution. They were not able to stop people smoking weed or drinking alcohol either. It's going to have to be a major societal shift. I think there's a good chance we will see that in the next 50 years.
I support gun control wherever it's shown to actually work but a lot laws are being pushed by either someone with an alternative motive like the 3D printer laws, or have actually no clue and just want to put another law that sounds good to
The 3D printer laws are really a micro manufacturing and surveillance law that appears to be being pushed by a billionaire and a company in bed with palantir. It could kill open source 3d printers that are the only reason we have 3d printers in the first place. The guns people make with 3D printers require major components from actual guns that you can leagly buy because the parts are not considered a gun.
iirc some of the parts you need like the lower are considered guns, but your point still stands. the last paragraph, i mean. it’d just surveillance state horseshit with the added benefit of protecting corporate profits in an industry that was developed with public funds and innovation.
Please stop conflating Democrats with "the left."
Democrats are centrists or even center-right. Actual leftists tend to be just as gun-happy as conservatives. Both for protection from those conservatives, and because Marx was pretty explicit about the proletariat needing to revolt.
I'm no gun person, but you could easily make a gun on a lathe or a mill drill, too. Get a CNC one and you don't even need to know how to use them.
Are we going to start fitting them with "you might be making a gun" detectors, too? Of course not.
Edit: Turns out they are... I choose to blame my ignorance on the paywall.
Are we going to start fitting [CNC lathes and mills] with “you might be making a gun” detectors, too? Of course not.
I've got some bad news for you about just how fucked-up these proposed laws actually are.
I'm pretty sure the law says any machine that takes sets of automated instructions, which includes CNC cutters and lathes
You absolutely need to know how to use any machine tool. You can't just download a file to a CNC mill and have it spit out a gun. I worked as a machinist when I was in college, it takes a lot of skill and talent to setup a CNC to make parts.
You can't load a file on a 3d printer and print a gun either...
On top of that, making a firearm is %100 legal.
Not in some jurisdictions. Know your local laws!
Yes it is 100% legal, I've done it myself. And there are actually single shot pistols you can download and print.
I'm not in anyway in favor of the legislation, just pointing out that machining a functioning anything isn't as easy as you said.
It's not 100% legal in some places. Know your local laws!
Those still require metal parts. No plastic is going to have enough strength to be used as a firing pin.
Not in California ever since they passed that bill that requires a DOJ-issued serial number on your home made firearm.
Nope, you can still make up to 3 firearms a year in California without a FFL license.
consumer-alert.pdf https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/attachments/press-docs/consumer-alert.pdf
Without a license but with requirements to register a serial number.
Which is required on a metal plate embedded in the receiver. So really stops 3d printed polymer receivers, only cnc milled metal ones will do.
I know. I meant relative to using a manual machine.
You could make the same argument for 3D printers.
Idk when you were in college, but tormach has come a long way with automation. It wouldn't surprise me if someone had automated paths & tool changes and was able to pump out gun parts without much human intervention.
Once the machine is set up yes, they can absolutely do that. That's how they're manufactured for the most part.
But the idea that any untrained, inexperienced person has the ability to physically setup, make jigs, indicate in said jigs, make a cad file, turn it into a cam program, load it into a machine, indicate in the stock, select the correct tooling and set it up, etc, etc, etc... It's a magnitude more difficult than 3d printing, and the machines that do that kind of fully automated work costs in the millions.
Honestly, the only difference would be the jigs and clamping, and making sure the tools are in the correct loading bay/socket. Everything else can be done by a 3rd party and distributed like it is with 3d printing. even the stock can be pre selected, it's not any different than recommending abs over nylon or tpu.
I think the difference in magnitude only applies to the price of the machine.
What's you background? Do you work with or operate machinery?
What kinda old ass 1900s grade equipment are you working with?
I'm not trying to be a dick, I just want to know if I'm talking to a layman or a professional.
Sorry, long day, I was the dick there.
I'm in Autodesk most of the time, but have operated (read: babysat) on occasion, our multi-axis mill.
My point is that once the full workflow is set up and documented it can be transmitted.
Maybe I'm thinking about it differently than you in terms of final output. I'm not talking about copying a Glock piece by piece. I'm thinking closer to the type of gun Tetsuya Yamagami used to assassinate Abe. Basic, simple, and repeatable if not reusable. Something so easy it could eliminate moving or flipping the workpiece all together. Silencers could also be fairly simple to automate.
Ok, so you do at least know the machinery. My point was that it wasn't as simple as someone just loading a workflow onto a mill and pressing go. Workholding, zeroing, probing, tool offsets, and all the little setup stuff. Takes someone with experience to get going. Most times, the first time running, a program doesn't work, or at least doesn't work correctly. It is totally possible to setup a machine with a bar feeder and a robot to make finished parts all day long. Getting it to do it correctly and accurately is the trick.
Not that you are wrong, but that isn't hard to teach somebody. Sure they will get a few failed parts, and likely break a few cutters. However all the instructions you need are there, there are plenty of how to machine parts videos on youtube (as always of various quality levels).
I can make a shotgun with a pipe, a tack, and a rubberband. Don't even need fancy tools. And that's especially crude. Prisoners in jail have made working firearms from toilet paper.
Have you tried using an agentic AI?
Because people are already doing exactly that.
This is just the dumbest thing ever.. So I can't print a grip for a camera?
Gosh, if only it were illegal to manufacture and sell weapons without a license, then we wouldn't need all this.
I've been telling people to arm and practice for more than 10 years.
A "ghost gun" is any gun without a serial number.
So you have to ban more than the 3D printer data files.
You will need to ban metal files as well. That's how real ghost guns are made.
How big of a problem is this even? I've only heard one case of someone using a ghost gun in a murder and that didn't stop the police from finding the suspect.
Guns are extremely simple devices. It's not something you can solve with 3d printing legislation... It's just people giving lip service to gun control IMO.
If you know how to 3d print a gun, you can easily find out how to make a zip gun with a bit of pipe, the kind you'd probably need to 3d print a "ghost gun" regardless.
Like ffs I saw a YouTube video or a dude getting two pieces of pipe, closing one end and putting a nail in it, then making a one shot shotgun out of cheap fucking material. You just need closed space and to hit the end of the fucking bullet. Guns are not magic. They're simple as fuck, and hard to regulate partially because of how simple they are.
These laws are probably more for surveillance than preventing ghost guns.
https://armamentresearch.com/luty-sub-machine-guns-past-present-future/
Famous examples that don't use 3d printing, the Luty guns he made as a crypto anarchist psycho trying to disseminate open source plans lol. The knowledge is very easily accessible.
These laws are probably more for surveillance than preventing ghost guns.
They are, 100%. Watch Louis Rossman 's video on the New York law (if you can stomach his vlogs for that long) - it's had a shitload of money dumped into lobbying for it by none other than overly controlling industrialist Michael Bloomberg himself. They are trying to crush user ownership of manufacturing right off the bat.
And this is basically how former Japanese PM Shinzo Abe was assassinated

It's not just gun control.
It's control of information and surveillance of every bit of data and every part printed for any reason.
Not a major problem AND going after 3D printing doesn't actually solve the problem - the core components that make a gun a gun, such as the barrel, firing pin, etc., still need to be manufactured in the "traditional" way (unless you're trying to make a single use, one shot gun, but even that has better alternatives than 3D printing).
As it's been pointed out above, the pieces of equipment - lathes, mills, CNC machines - required to make the aforementioned parts require no licencing, no safety mechanisms to prevent gun part manufacturing.
The CA law includes all manufacturing machines that take sets of instructions, if I'm not mistaken
A lathe takes no instructions and is potentially the most useful tool of all listed for the purposes of making a gun.
CNC lathes are very common these days.
They are.
A barebones manual lathe is still grades cheaper, this provide a lower level of entry. Spend $200 and in no time you can be doing 20-30 barrels a day.
But please tell me how a 3D printer, which is at most useful for the casing (which you could hand craft from wood with a knife...).
I'm not quite understanding your question.
3d printers have made guns. They are always bad guns because plastic isn't great for the purpose. They work and prove the point enough to scare people who know nothing about guns and thus don't realize why other methods are better and faster.
My point is that a 3D printer isn't necessary for making a gun, and that you can't even make the parts that make something into a gun, using a (regular, commercial FDM) 3D printer.
it's like trying to regulate printers because you can "3D print a car", when in reality you can 3D print a few accessories and components but the entire engine has to be manufactured differently...
People have 3d printed guns and fired them. They work. Not well, and last I heard they are one shot because plastic can take the heat. Still they do exist.
Those guns STILL REQUIRE KEY COMPONENTS THAT CANT BE 3D PRINTED. Just how many times and how many ways do I have to explain this until it gets through?
You can 3D print a shadow gun, sure, even on a $100 cheapo FDM printer. Thing is, it won't fucking work because there's neither barrel nor firing pin. Two of the, oh, most crucial elements to make a gun into an actual gun. Up until you add these two bits, that gun will do more damage if you chuck it at your target than if you fired it.
TECHNICALLY, you could get away with a firing pin setup made from some wiring and an actual nail, but it would be highly unreliable - misfire, not fire at all, and so on. And even if it did fire, without a barrel, you'd have a 30-40% chance of not hitting your target... at which point you're more likely to kill your target by aiming some higher power pyrotechnics at them. Which are easier and cheaper to acquire.
A nail is common enough that I refuse that objection.
Barrels are 3d printed. They are single use because the heat and pressure will destroy them, but they work. They also can't get good rifling patterns so not accurate. This is why a 3D printed gun is always going to be a novelty that is useless, but it is enough to work.
You don't even need a CNC machine. Basic hand tools and some pipe are enough to make a zip gun.
It's not a problem. "Ghost gun" refers to any gun without a serial number, whether it was manufactured without one or simply scratched off. Even under that exceedingly broad definition, these unserialized firearms represent less than 0.1% of all guns in existence.
3D printers aren't the only way to make a gun. Traditional tooling also works.
Manufacturing guns for personal use is completely legal in most US jurisdictions.
It's already illegal to manufacture and distribute or sell guns without a license.
"Ghost guns" are a boogeyman invented to sell more surveillance.
Shit, just browse makerlab.com and you’ll find all sorts of gun parts!
Video series worth a watch from 3D Printing Nurd.
These videos talk about the additive printing bill and how it essentially looking to make any "uncertified" 3d printer or even CNC machines illegal.
Strictest 3D Printing Regulation YET! California AB2047: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ax9zW0w_gY
3D Printing in California Can Be Saved! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGvvEuIPJxA
The FINAL Hearing in California: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6fpPStIAsY
I don't like these kind of restrictions. Don't allow ghost guns which means if your caught with one you can do time. Beyond that is overreach. You are not allowed to rob places but people can still try to do it and if caught go to jail (well maybe). Im not wild about preventing people from doing things as much as depending on them to either respect the law or face consequences from it.
Won't stop anyone, but luckily I lost my 3D printer in a boating accident.
This is just dumb people being bought by gun lobby groups...on top of all of this bullshit, guns are %100 legal to make. It's not illegal to make a firearm for personal use, even if you could 3d print one completely.
Know you're local laws. It IS illegal to 3d print guns in NY amd CA already.
California it is illegal, but NY is not.
NY requires a FFL or gunsmith license
California you can only make 3 a per year without a FFL license.
And that's why everyone needs to know their local laws!
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