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Are you ready for what it takes to stop ghost guns? New laws in California and New York might stop anyone from 3D printing guns — and create entirely new kinds of surveillance. (www.theverge.com)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] 23 points 4 months ago (22 children)

How big of a problem is this even? I've only heard one case of someone using a ghost gun in a murder and that didn't stop the police from finding the suspect.

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  • [–] 35 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

    Guns are extremely simple devices. It's not something you can solve with 3d printing legislation... It's just people giving lip service to gun control IMO.

    If you know how to 3d print a gun, you can easily find out how to make a zip gun with a bit of pipe, the kind you'd probably need to 3d print a "ghost gun" regardless.

    Like ffs I saw a YouTube video or a dude getting two pieces of pipe, closing one end and putting a nail in it, then making a one shot shotgun out of cheap fucking material. You just need closed space and to hit the end of the fucking bullet. Guns are not magic. They're simple as fuck, and hard to regulate partially because of how simple they are.

    These laws are probably more for surveillance than preventing ghost guns.

    https://armamentresearch.com/luty-sub-machine-guns-past-present-future/

    Famous examples that don't use 3d printing, the Luty guns he made as a crypto anarchist psycho trying to disseminate open source plans lol. The knowledge is very easily accessible.

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  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago

    These laws are probably more for surveillance than preventing ghost guns.

    They are, 100%. Watch Louis Rossman 's video on the New York law (if you can stomach his vlogs for that long) - it's had a shitload of money dumped into lobbying for it by none other than overly controlling industrialist Michael Bloomberg himself. They are trying to crush user ownership of manufacturing right off the bat.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    It's not just gun control.

    It's control of information and surveillance of every bit of data and every part printed for any reason.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    It's not even just surveillance! It is destruction of property rights generally, including the right to repair and the ability for individuals to own their means of production.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (11 children)

    Not a major problem AND going after 3D printing doesn't actually solve the problem - the core components that make a gun a gun, such as the barrel, firing pin, etc., still need to be manufactured in the "traditional" way (unless you're trying to make a single use, one shot gun, but even that has better alternatives than 3D printing).

    As it's been pointed out above, the pieces of equipment - lathes, mills, CNC machines - required to make the aforementioned parts require no licencing, no safety mechanisms to prevent gun part manufacturing.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    The CA law includes all manufacturing machines that take sets of instructions, if I'm not mistaken

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    A lathe takes no instructions and is potentially the most useful tool of all listed for the purposes of making a gun.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (6 children)

    CNC lathes are very common these days.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    They are.

    A barebones manual lathe is still grades cheaper, this provide a lower level of entry. Spend $200 and in no time you can be doing 20-30 barrels a day.

    But please tell me how a 3D printer, which is at most useful for the casing (which you could hand craft from wood with a knife...).

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    I'm not quite understanding your question.

    3d printers have made guns. They are always bad guns because plastic isn't great for the purpose. They work and prove the point enough to scare people who know nothing about guns and thus don't realize why other methods are better and faster.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    My point is that a 3D printer isn't necessary for making a gun, and that you can't even make the parts that make something into a gun, using a (regular, commercial FDM) 3D printer.

    it's like trying to regulate printers because you can "3D print a car", when in reality you can 3D print a few accessories and components but the entire engine has to be manufactured differently...

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    People have 3d printed guns and fired them. They work. Not well, and last I heard they are one shot because plastic can take the heat. Still they do exist.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Those guns STILL REQUIRE KEY COMPONENTS THAT CANT BE 3D PRINTED. Just how many times and how many ways do I have to explain this until it gets through?

    You can 3D print a shadow gun, sure, even on a $100 cheapo FDM printer. Thing is, it won't fucking work because there's neither barrel nor firing pin. Two of the, oh, most crucial elements to make a gun into an actual gun. Up until you add these two bits, that gun will do more damage if you chuck it at your target than if you fired it.

    TECHNICALLY, you could get away with a firing pin setup made from some wiring and an actual nail, but it would be highly unreliable - misfire, not fire at all, and so on. And even if it did fire, without a barrel, you'd have a 30-40% chance of not hitting your target... at which point you're more likely to kill your target by aiming some higher power pyrotechnics at them. Which are easier and cheaper to acquire.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    A nail is common enough that I refuse that objection.

    Barrels are 3d printed. They are single use because the heat and pressure will destroy them, but they work. They also can't get good rifling patterns so not accurate. This is why a 3D printed gun is always going to be a novelty that is useless, but it is enough to work.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    It's not a problem. "Ghost gun" refers to any gun without a serial number, whether it was manufactured without one or simply scratched off. Even under that exceedingly broad definition, these unserialized firearms represent less than 0.1% of all guns in existence.

    3D printers aren't the only way to make a gun. Traditional tooling also works.

    Manufacturing guns for personal use is completely legal in most US jurisdictions.

    It's already illegal to manufacture and distribute or sell guns without a license.

    "Ghost guns" are a boogeyman invented to sell more surveillance.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    Shit, just browse makerlab.com and you’ll find all sorts of gun parts!

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    I print airsoft parts from time to time and it's honestly pretty annoying thinking I've found the part I need only to realize that it's the counterpart for an actual gun. There's loads of gun parts on 3d printing sites.

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