top 95 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 170 points 4 months ago (1 child)

The fine is not the largest ever imposed on Google, however.

In October 2024 a charge was brought against the firm by a Russian court for restricting Russian state media channels on YouTube.

The fine was for two undecillion roubles - more than the world's total GDP.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 115 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    significant investment to ensure Android remains open.

    Unless you want to install apps not from the google app store. Or develop apps not for the google app store. Or use a Captcha without having google services. Or use your bank website without google services. or use the internet without chrome. or... shit, sorry, I don't have time to list all the ways google wants the exact opposite of anything anywhere remaining "open" unless by "open" they mean "open to google's exploitation".

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 86 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    Now lets use part of that money, to fund the development of open alternatives and interoperable protocols / standards. We cannot break a duopoly, if there aren't any alternatives, otherwise it will keep being a duopoly.

  • source
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [+] 9 points 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    4 billion can go a very long way.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Believe it or not, straight to data centers

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [+] -11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Datacenters are not inherently bad...

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [+] 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    We are talking about developing alternatives to US services, which, surprise, will need datacenters to run. You don't provide email to 700 million people from an old laptop in a basement.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [+] 150 points 4 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] 51 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    The question is how much money did they make by using Android to block rivals. If using Android helped them make 1bn extra then this fine costs them 3bn and it doesn't make sense from them to keep doing it. If they made 100bn than obviously they will continue.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 31 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, with it they've managed to build a walled garden that includes the majority of every phone in the world.

    We can probably assume trillions.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    It's all hypothetical. You can't know if any of the rivals had any chance at gaining significant share of the market. I was using Blackberry when it was still perfectly fine OS, supported by all the important apps (but before everything was an app) and I didn't know anyone else using it. I think that yes, the deals they made stopped most of the phone manufactures from offering alternative OSes like Geko OS or Lineage OS (before it was called like that) but we can only guess if any of them had any chance of becoming anything else than niche curiosity like Graphene OS today. So you can only really compare this fine with what they are doing now to block Graphene or AOSP. I don't know if this fine is big enough but I doubt they made trillions thanks to those practices.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    Total Worth doesn't matter. What matters is revenue and profit and that is the basis for the fine.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    When it comes to something punitive like a fine, fine versus worth is literally the only thing that matters. If the fine isn't big enough, it's more like a fee for doing business. They just added to the bottom line and keep rolling.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 42 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    Wait, Google is actually facing consequences. Am I dreaming?

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago*

    No, they are just getting a slap on the wrist.

    It just sounds like a lot because we're poor peasants who think a thousand dollars is a life changing amount of money.

    To company like google, 4 billion dollars is pocket change. a small evil tax compared to what they've made doing the evil.

    It'd be like you setting up an illegal hotdog stand, making 2000 dollars selling hotdogs all day, then the government coming by and fining you 20 bucks for it, but not before getting a free hotdog with a wink wink nudge nudge.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    I farted a few minutes ago. Google knows this and was able to monetize the sale of that data. My flatulence paid that fine.

    These are not consequences. This is zero-calorie consequences.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Not zero calorie. They made more off your data and that shitty fine was a small cost of doing business.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Fun fact: I haven’t farted in hours. The misdirect both proves my point and devalues their product. Hilarious blip in the data.

    Also, excuse to increase Taco Bell intake.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Dude, have you seen Taco Bell prices lately? Who the fuck has Taco Bell money these days?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    They'll probably appeal and do bullshit to negotiate it down and defer the payment.

    So, a consequence, but one absolutely built into the budget of the things they're being fined for.

    Edit: oh wait i misread. This is actually something they already appealed and negotiated down already. The original judgement was years ago.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 76 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Need another one now for all the removal of side loading, that is another big antitrust issue. Best make the fine actually worth something this time.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 99 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Google's behavior in this debacle has been utterly shameful. They got caught with their dick in the pie and have spent 8 fucking years arguing that it was for the good of society.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 29 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    You must give us your pocket change for using your monopoly power to make trillions by abusing the market.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago

    Snack money.

  • source
  • [–] 49 points 4 months ago (41 children)

    👍🏽great stuff. BTW, stop using google products, there are enough good alternatives.

  • source
  • hideshow 41 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (22 children)

    Is there a good alternative for maps?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 22 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (9 children)

    It depends on what you use Google Maps for. For straight-up navigation, CoMaps is good. And I mean it's good at the navigation itself for the most part. Although sometimes when you enter in an address it thinks you're referring to the entire street. But most of my favorite restaurants and a lot of locations that have been open for a while aren't on it, which I've been happy to add. Locations that have been closed for a while are still on it, which I've been happy to delete.

    But if you use Google Maps for discovering places or looking at pictures or seeing reviews of businesses, or if you do a lot of multi-stop trips, comaps doesn't have those features even in the littlest, tiniest bit, and in that sense there is legitimately no (Foss) competitor. For instance, if you're out and about on a vacation and you're trying to find a restaurant, nope, comaps is useless for that. If you're trying to plan a trip by seeing what's around somewhere, nope, useless for that too.

    It really just focuses on navigation itself, and it does a pretty good job of that. I use it to get around when I drive.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    I really want CoMaps to be a valid choice. Its maps look are absolutely great, like Ordnance Survey Maps. But I don't normally use it for the reason I experienced again just today. I use Android Auto in the car with my GrapheneOS phone, but my phone SIM reader failed the other day, so this phone has no internet. Google Maps refused to work without internet. So I just used CoMaps again today. This is in the UK, and lack of traffic info matters. It does routes down the little country roads that are technically 60mph, but you literally can not drive that fast down them. Even with a death wish. But it plans them in assuming that speed. This results in bad routes and inaccurate times. (Though I do enjoy country roads, when used well.)

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    On the plus side, it worked without internet!

    So you're saying that you can't drive this speed limit on those roads because of the amount of traffic, right? not because of some sort of geographic feature or shape of the roads?

    Yeah...hard to imagine much of a way to get traffic updates in comaps, or any OSM project honestly. It seems like it would have to be a separately maintained service. And either way, I'm guessing the number of users that would buy into something like that just wouldn't be enough to get meaningful data most of the time. Especially since it pretty much relies on tracking people's locations, which I feel like is counter to the purpose of most people's reason for getting into those services.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    Oh it's not traffic. They are often quite empty. British country roads are narrow and often stone wall lined, or tree lined, or embankment lined, or all three. They are winding and can be quite steep. Corners can be almost back on themselves. Often there are bits down to a single lane for both directions, with passing points for someone to wait for the other direction to pass. If you encounter someone who can't reverse, you might have to reverse quite a way.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I think they do mean that the layout of the road means you can't drive at the speed limit. In the UK we have quite a lot of rural roads that are technically legally 60mph limit roads, but they are in reality very narrow, windy roads that you couldn't safely drive on at 60mph. I guess CoMaps goes by speed limit for estimates so it measures these roads as if they are 60mph but in reality you may only be able to go 20mph without dying

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, this is a misunderstanding of speed limits by the app developer. In the UK, as far as I remember, these national speed limit roads have just never had a speed limit put on them. Things like accidents, petitions, zoning etc. is how everywhere else has gradually added speed limits.

    So although you could say “well, national speed limit on a single carriageway is 60mph” by default, that has almost nothing to do with how fast people are able drive on them. To work that out, you’d probably have to do some Waze-type stuff.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    I've very sympathetic to the developers. It's a stupidly hard problem to know what speed is likely, at what time of day, on these roads. Far far easier to just have the data of what people are actually doing on these roads. That's what Google do.

    Though if you can detect country road, you could safely assume half the speed advertised.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    It's also cultural. Country roads in my country are 90 km/h and unless it's dangerous, that's what you would do on them. Which means speed is lower than posted in tight spots and curves, but not normal roads.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    That's pretty much the UK really. Only you are very rarely able to get close to the 60mph limit at all, let alone safely.

    The are more dangerous by statistics. Some random links:

    I love these roads and the British countryside, but it is definitely an eyes wide open environment. Certainly can be a shortcut, but often SatNavs without traffic info, use them when they really shouldn't. You used to often see signs telling people to ignore their SatNavs and not take this road, but it's less of a thing now as everyone just uses Google Maps. Basically, I want that traffic info as public access for all SatNavs. Not locked away.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    No, everything I have tried is worse in significant ways. Let me know if you find a genuine alternative.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Comaps is actually not bad. It's limited in info to what's on OSM, but good news is you can help by updating the spots you frequent!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Doesn't have satellite view or bus/tram navigation

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    map apps solve the first by using outside satellite imagery services. but it has bus/tram line data, so if the app supports it then it should work. not comaps but osmand supports it

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    Osmand seems more promising but you can only search for public transport leaving right now, not in two hours or the next day

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    yeah, osm does not have schedule data, but it wouldn't be feasible to keep that info in osm, because it changes constantly.

    instead bus schedules are supposed to be in GTFS datasets, normally published by the transport company. there are already services like transitous and motis, that aggregate and sanitize these sources for consumption by apps. comaps has plens for adding support, but it's going slowly.

    https://transitous.org/

    https://github.com/motis-project/motis

    Europe has relatively good coverage with these services, but as I see it the end user apps are still not ready. also, transport providers often don't publish realtime data, even if they are collecting it for themselves.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Thanks for the info. I hope someday it gets good enough that I don't have to feel like I'm making sacrifices when switching over

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    till that happens, personally I use a local transportation app I got from the play store ages ago, but has little data mining as I see it. it works with regularly updated offline databases, so my queries and location don't get uploaded anywhere

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yes.

    I have only one of their services that I do not see replaced any time soon. YouTube. What they do there is impressive, and very, very hard to replicate.

    Not a fan of YouTube, don't get me wrong. But I see nothing comparable out there (maybe AWS, but they just run some infrastructure orchestration).

    Google will kill YouTube long before anybody else is able to pull off the same stunt.

    Or is there a service comparable for video streaming?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    Been using Newpipe/Pipepipe for the longest time, but Google has been screwing with the Youtube API so the Newpipe Extractor hasn't been working properly for the last two updates. Can't keep a video playing in the background for long, can't download OPUS audio files, playlist albums from YouTube Music are still iffy.

    Genuinely about to switch to Nebula or Peertube. Fuck Google, I hope Pichai dies.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 2 points 4 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    If you can. The problem there is Play Integrity API, which is used as an anti-competition measure.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Revolut was the only app I had issues with on Graphene OS. I obviously closed Revolut account and continue using Graphene.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I use Revolut with no issue on GrapheneOS. Maybe things changed.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    Sure, but I'm not interested in that ecosystem at all. My desktop and my tablet don't run proprietary software. My phone runs a few apps which rely on sandboxed Play, but honestly, I don't need them badly so I could stop tomorrow.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

    Both of those are soft forks of Android, meaning they still exist at the whim of Google.

    The only real alternatives are Sailfish (proprietary userland, relies on Halium for its devices to run, which means the devices have a limited lifespan as they rely on a specific version of the Linux kernel that will eventually stop being supported), UBPorts, Droidian, etc. (also relies on Halium, but the userland is open sourcs), and mainline Linux distros like PostmarketOS (has one device that is fully functional, but is extremely slow, but device support is slowly improving over time).

    All of those alternatives also support an Android compatibility layer, presuming you don't rely on device attestation DRM like Play Integrity.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    If I can't have hardware that supports open source Android forks, then it means that I won't buy it. I can work around with dumbphones, MiFi routers with tethered Linux or BSD portables. I will not use a proprietary system outside of work, full stop.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    If i remember correctly, GNU is working on a Librephone, the progress is slow tho

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    the progress is slow tho

    Just about what we should expect from the same FSF that has been developing GNU Hurd for more than 30 years now?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago*

    The FSF isn't really putting much effort in Hurd because they already have the Linux kernel, Stallman also said that it's not crucial to finish Hurd

    Btw, if they will even finish Hurd, i hope that they also add some standards to avoid the incredible mess that is the world of Linux distribution today, we have many packages formats that are not interoperable and other stuff

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah don't use android. Use android. And android but only for google's phones. That'll learn 'em.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Use whatever nonproprietary open/libre systems that are out there. Right now, for mobile smartdevices that's Lineage OS and Graphene OS. If you want GOS, that's currently limited to Pixels. I'm not giving a shit about proprietary vendors, it's a freedom thing. If I can buy open hardware, I will.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    European Commission of course. They are the only ones left in the world trying to rein in the tech giants.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Chump change. Market cap: $4.4T. The cost of doing business is just scaling while normal people money is not.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    ok now make them pay tax.

  • source
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›
    8 comments in c/android@lemdro.id view that post