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[–] 132 points 4 months ago (18 children)

Soccer is a British word though, but predominantly southerner / Oxfordian.

Association Football used to get contracted to Assoc or Soc to differentiate it from Rugby Football.

And in Oxford, they historically liked to add -er to the end of things; still in parlance today is calling Rugby “rugger”, £5 note “fiver”, the Bodleian Library “Bodder”.

Assoc became “soccer”.

It’s not an American thing. It’s a posh southern England thing that got exported to the states by American students at Oxford returning stateside and bringing the game back with them.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    It's not just to distinguish it from rugby football. There are dozens of different types of games of football. Association football is just the one that got particularly popular across the world.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    I watched several documentaries over the years that said it is because at the time Football Clubs were referred to as Social Clubs and the team was just part of the Social Club. The clubs were referred to as "Socs" pronounced like the footwear Socks, and the Teams would play what was referred to a s "Soccer" as in Sock-er. Then this got exported to various people in North America, mostly from the South and West of England. Then it fell out of usage in England but no one told us over here in North America so we kept using the term.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    So is it "sock-urh" or "soe'sh-ur"? The latter being like "social" but with an -er ending. Because that's how 'association' is pronounced.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago* (6 children)

    Where is "association" pronounced like that, if I may ask? I could only find the pronunciation I'm familiar with, which is this: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/association

    To maybe be more clear: you are implying that the c in "soc" is pronounced like a "sh" when it's the t in "tion".

    (Edit: missed some letters.)

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    To maybe be more clear: you are implying that the c in "soc" is pronounced like a "sh" when it's the t in "tion".

    Is it not? How do you pronounce it?

    Also I'm pretty sure that's what the "ʃən" at the end of the pronunciation thing means.

    Looking at the sound-by-sound pronunciation, it seems to confirm this.

    /ʃ/ as in she

    /ən/ as in sudden

    I think the question was whether or not people pronounce the "soc" in "soccer" the same as they pronounce it in "association" ("soʃ" I guess), or like "sock"

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I did provide a link where both the British and the American pronunciation treat the c as an s sound. They have the IPA as /əˌsəʊ.siˈeɪ.ʃən/ for both dialects. "soc" does contain the c, not the t.

    As I said, I'm not debating that the t in "tion" is pronounced that way (at least I tried to be clear, maybe I muddled it even more), but I have always pronounced the c as an s sound, and it appears Cambridge agrees with me.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Some British English dialects do use a ʃ sound for the C in "association". OED has it listed for both UK and USA, though I don't personally know what the US situation is there

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    The pronunciation tab there is paywalled, but in the OED app on my phone, they list /əˌsəʊsiˈeɪʃn/, followed by /əˌsəʊʃiˈeɪʃn/ in the pronunciation section. I honestly can't recall ever hearing a single person in the US pronounce it /əˌsəʊʃiˈeɪʃn/, and though I won't say nobody does, the other pronunciation is far and away more common, where the 'c' and 't' make entirely distinct sounds.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, that's how I pronounce 'association' as well.

    I see now that I said it wrong. The 'c' in 'association' is pronounced like an 's', so is it 'so-ser'? Like saying "so-so" but with an -er at the end?

    So, if I may ask, how do you pronounce soccer?

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Cool origin. Still an US thing if only people from the US do it.

    "The origin is British so it's your fault we do it" sounds like "mom didn't educate me so it's her fault I'm a deadbeat - 40y.o. adult".

    You are allowed to improve your language.

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  • [+] -11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yet there is not a single British person who calls it soccer.

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  • [+] -2 points 4 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    It's not just Brits, literally the whole world calls it football except for one country which thinks it is right and everyone else is wrong.

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  • [–] 50 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Blame the British, Oxford specifically, and their penchant to name things ending in -er. They're the ones that named it, and they hide from that fact now as if they were never a part of it.

    https://www.history.com/articles/why-do-some-people-call-it-soccer

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    Blame the British, Oxford specifically, and their penchant to name things ending in -er

    You could call them a tosser for what they've done but you'll be playing right into their hand

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  • [–] 33 points 4 months ago

    Yes it fucking is

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago*

    You want to blame someone, blame yourselves since you're the ones who created and colonized the word.

    https://www.britannica.com/story/why-do-some-people-call-football-soccer

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  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    So dumb it hurts,

    The term "soccer" was invented in England in the late 19th century by university students. It is widely attributed to Charles Wredford-Brown, an Oxford student.

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  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago

    Now hold on a minute this was all your idea.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago

    Y’all are the ones who came up with the name soccer.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    My brother in christ YOU CALLED IT SOCCER

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    I just love it when Americans hear some retarded shit Britain did and then accuse all of Europe for doing it.

    They also left the union. Are you gonna blame all of Europe for leaving the EU?

    All of Europe - except for Britain, apparently - call it football.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    But you use both of your feet. Shouldn't it be called feetball then?

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  • [–] 23 points 4 months ago* (5 children)

    ¿Por qué no los dos? Personally tired of these primarily online binary semantic arguments. Gif, jif, football, soccer, fútbol, pineapple, ananas, eggplant, aubergine. We contain multitudes, celebrate these absolutely arbitrary differences.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    "When you go to the pearly gates, call them 'Jod ' and see how it works out for you" was my favourite response to the gif/jif debate.

    (Oddly enough Jif is an abrasive bathroom cleaner / was a lemon juice brand where I'm from (or vice versa) it was renamed to Cif to stop people from suing the companies because they added cream cleaner to their lemon meringue pie)

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    The arrow is pointing to his shin though?

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Football just means a game played on foot, as opposed to on horse.

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  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I don't think so... basically that would mean every sport could/should be called "football"...

    • Basketball = played on foot, not horse therefore football

    • Volleyball = played on foot, not horse therefore football

    • Baseball = no horse, football again

    • Hockey = believe it or not, football... maybe skate ball?

    I am kidding of course, it seems nobody really knows and the 2 main theories are the one you mentioned (on foot, not on horse) vs kicking of a ball with your foot (and not your hand)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_(word)#Etymology

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago*

    soccer is just a shortening of “association football”

    “Foot ball” in American English referring to “gridiron football.”

    Comepare that to “Gaelic football”, “Australian football” or “Rugby football”.

    These are all just different rule sets that have evolved from a common ancestor, they’re all football.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    I barely know her

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  • [–] 24 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Both the American and rest of the world versions of their respective ball games are played on foot, as opposed to polo that is played riding a horse. The latter was originally invented by Ralph Lauren, as commemorated in ubiquitous t-shirts with a gentlemanly collar.

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Why do people still wear Lacoste if no one plays gatorball anymore?

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    IDK why we changed it from Gridiron. That shit sounds way cooler.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    Frankly, all of the different football games should get a proper name like that. Gridiron and rugby (both union and league) are both great names. You can call them gridiron football or rugby football if you want to be formal. Soccer is basically the same idea, being a shortening of association football. Now we just need counterparts for Australian and Gaelic

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I wont hear from the UK about speaking English correctly. You are not serious people.

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    if it's called football, then why did YOU name it soccer? seems kind of silly to blame other people for using the name you insisted everyone use.

    but that's like imperial measurements, you insisted everyone use them and then changed your mind down the line and now make fun of us for using the Imperial system that Imperial Britian came up with. you have a nasty habit of blaming everyone else for the problems you create.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    British imperial units and US customary units were actually both codified after American independence! Both British imperial and US customary units are derived from earlier English customary units. We made some agreements to harmonise our two systems over time so that we were at least using the same pound and yard, because we weren't before, but somehow volume units escaped this

    Ironically we did sort of hamper your early efforts at metrication completely unintentionally; British pirates (privateers, more accurately) captured the French ship that happened to be carrying standards for the metric system across the Atlantic to you

    Either way, Brits definitely shouldn't make fun of anyone for their system of measurement, because the only thing worse than a non-metric system is using some cursed half-and-half Frankenstein mashup of both metric and non-metric

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago

    But that ball is not shaped like a foot

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  • [–] 49 points 4 months ago (20 children)

    Actually I believe it's called "Football" because most ball games were originally played on horseback.

    Football (Soccer) was one of the first ball games to be played on foot, hence Foot-ball

    That's why Rugby, Canadian Football, Australian Football, and American Football are also types of "Football".

    Also, the name "Soccer" was literally invented in England. It's short for "Association Football" (Association - Assoc - Soccer) so shut the f*** up

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Man, Baseball with horses would be wild.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    In Australian AFL, otherwise known as Aussie Rules, it's pretty common to need to jump high enough that you get another person to launch you. Imagine that from horseback! I'd watch.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (15 children)

    Actually I believe it’s called “Football” because most ball games were originally played on horseback.

    hmmm are you sure about that? I do not know with certainty but today playing a sport with a horse would be a high demand, back in the days it would have been an even bigger one so I sincerely doubt "most ball games" were originally played on horseback when not having a horse was that much easier

    That's like saying "we call them Earthmobiles because back then, most vehicles were just planes" (no way planes were common before cars)

    You are sort of right regarding the origin of soccer, but it was intended to distinguish football played by the association rules vs other types of football which were popular at the time.

    From Wikipedia:

    Association football is part of a family of football codes that emerged from various ball games played worldwide since antiquity. The word "association" in this term refers to the Football Association (the FA), founded in London in 1863, which published the first set of rules for the sport that same year.[8] The term was coined to distinguish the type of football played in accordance with the FA rules from other types that were gaining popularity at the time, particularly rugby football.[9] Heading from The Sportsman front page of 25 November 1910, illustrating the continued use of the word "football" to encompass both rugby and association football.

    The term soccer comes from Oxford "-er" slang, which was prevalent at the University of Oxford in England from about 1875, and is thought to have been borrowed from the slang of Rugby School. Initially spelt assoccer (a shortening of "association"), it was later reduced to the modern spelling.[10][11] Early alternative spellings included socca and socker.[9] This form of slang also gave rise to rugger for rugby football, fiver and tenner for five pound and ten pound notes, and the now-archaic footer that was also a name for association football.[12]

    Within the English-speaking world, association football is now usually called simply "football" in Great Britain and most of Ulster in the north of Ireland,[13] whereas people usually call it "soccer" in regions and countries where other codes of football are prevalent, such as Australia,[14] Canada, South Africa, most of Ireland (excluding Ulster),[15] and the United States. A notable exception is New Zealand, where in the first two decades of the 21st century, under the influence of international television, "football" has been gaining prevalence, despite the dominance of other codes of football, namely rugby union and rugby league.[16]

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Yes it was called football because the peasants played it on their feet while the nobles played polo and other equestrian sports. There's a huge documented history, several Kings in English history all had a take on the issue. Some thought it was awful because they hated seeing their peasants creating a spectacle and sometimes they got hurt and couldn't work, but other kings leaned into it and used it to gain favor with the lower classes.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    According to wikipedia, what you claim is true but also there is documented history of the "foot" part coming up because of the kicking of the ball from really far back

    The truth is we do not seem to know which of the 2 sources truly directed the current name... very likely both contributed

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (2 children)

    That doesn't make sense because most forms of football (rugby and american etc) use mostly the hands to carry the ball. The name was never about kicking, it was about playing on foot, until John Cleese made a joke about it. There's sources going back to the middle ages about it.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    The word "football" precedes all those modern sports you are referring to.

    As I said, from the wikipedia article, it seems there is a bit of both

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (9 children)

    Umm... ever heard of Polo? Buzkashi? Chovgan? Pato? All of those are ball games played on horseback (except Buzkashi which is played on horseback but uses a a goat carcass instead of a ball)

    Your analogy is also false because cars were invented before planes.

    1885–1886: Benz Patent-Motorwagen becomes the first practical automobile.

    1903: Orville Wright and Wilbur Wright achieve the first powered, controlled airplane flight with the Wright Flyer.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    (except Buzkashi which is played on horseback but uses a a goat carcass instead of a ball)

    wait...what?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yes, you read that correctly...

    A decapitated, disemboweled goat is surprisingly hard to tear apart. The hide and connective tissue can withstand dozens of riders yanking it around at full gallop.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Umm… ever heard of Polo? Buzkashi? Chovgan? Pato? All of those are ball games played on horseback (except Buzkashi which is played on horseback but uses a a goat carcass instead of a ball)

    Your analogy is also false because cars were invented before planes.

    That was exactly my point... do you think nobody thought of kicking a ball around BEFORE they decided to break horses, train them and then push a ball around with a stick while on horseback?

    To risk a valuable commodity as a horse in a game, it implies humanity was already well off enough (at least some people) to keep horses around with relative ease

    My point was that the simplest form of a sport (on foot) would have likely existed (and indeed they did) WAAAAAAYYYYY before we decided to play sports on horses

    At the end of the day, it seems both sources are valid: Horseback sports were the only ones officially recognized during medieval times; AS WELL AS, historical records showing games played by kicking balls from way before. Which of those 2 sources or both to a certain extent are part of the etymology of the modern word "football"

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    do you think nobody thought of kicking a ball around BEFORE they decided to break horses

    of course they did, but why would a self respecting elite adopt peasant terminology for a beloved pass time? How could it get away with skewing early rules and standards if they couldb't frame it entirely as theur own? How could they exclusively commodify it if it were not mythologized as their own creation?

    Of course these point are vastly irrelevant to the discussion at hand but, make no mistake, i'd never have made them if they were to begin with.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    Sure, but the term Football wasn't coined when ball games were invented. It was coined much later when there were already lots of different sports.

    Among the sports people people played at the time, Football was one where the participants are on foot.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Most sports were played (and still are) on foot

    Look I get your point but neither my original theory (foot = kicking) or yours (foot = not on horse) have been proven to be the "real" source of the word football today; maybe it's one or the other OR influenced by both sources

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  • It's only soccer if they forget to wear their boots

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago*

    Woah woah woah. I thought we agreed getting Americans to use A4 paper instead of 8.5x11 first, calculate by the metric instead of the imperial system second, measure economy by HDI instead of GDP third, and call it football instead of soccer last.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    yeah, the NFL is the same exact way. every game starts with a foot kicking a ball, therefore it is football

    soccer is short for association football, englanders created it, therefore it is soccer

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    It's not a sphere, therefore it's not a ball. It's shaped like more like an egg.

    You kick it once with your foot, then you carry it with your hand.

    It's not football, its HANDEGG.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    It's interesting how different aspects of US culture can trace its roots back to England.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    Soccer? Hardly even know 'er.

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