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[–] 99 points 6 months ago (2 children)

one time when I was in college my mom called toward the end of the spring semester and said "if you're not busy you should make a few phone calls and get a job lined up for the summer by the end of the day"

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  • [–] 78 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    They should be forced to stay in the contest until they earn $10,000.

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  • [–] 120 points 6 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 82 points 6 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 35 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Good luck getting a place to rent too. That could be another game even.

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  • [–] 48 points 6 months ago (35 children)

    100% why I don't give advice.

    Older people refuse to acknowledge that the world has changed and the younger generation is legitimately fucked by no fault of their own.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    The more you give advice from a place of genuine compassion, the more you work out your empathy circuitry and thus the better you will be at understanding others' problems and communicating with them, not to necessarily give them a solution, but to help them how they need.

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  • [+] -28 points 6 months ago* (31 children)

    There is a middle ground. A lot of younger people are legit shit at applying for jobs, like they don't even read the job description and put the the position title... they just throw up a wall of buzzwords and copy-paste it and call it a day, showing the application reviewers they have no legit interest in the job.

    Also a lot of them are awful interviewers, again, focusing on vibes and buzzwords and demonstrating a lack of legitimate interest. And yeah that might work if you want a bullshit job for a bullshit company, but for more serious work it's a huge red flag.

    Just having basic social skills to like, demonstrate that you know what the company does and that you'd be interested in it's mission, as basic as that is, sets your application above like 95% of the rest of them. You don't have to be fancy... you just have to demonstrate basic information processing and acknowledgement skills...

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago

    A lot of younger people are legit shit at applying for jobs, like they don’t even read the job description and put the the position title… they just throw up a wall of buzzwords and copy-paste it and call it a day, showing the application reviewers they have no legit interest in the job.

    Often the jobs being offered are opaque, confusing, or outright scammy. Often the people doing the applications are just bots testing the HR system for vulnerabilities or marketing reps looking to sell independent contractors.

    I've lived on both sides of the hiring game, and in my experience just about the only way to get a job (outside of a job fair at a college or other meet-and-greet event) is via referral. The process of searching for and apply for jobs has become such a disorienting mess that simply spamming responses without bothering to read the job offer seems as reasonable a response as the HR method of throwing out hiring requests that nobody intended to read or respond to.

    Just having basic social skills to like, demonstrate that you know what the company does and that you’d be interested in it’s mission, as basic as that is, sets your application above like 95% of the rest of them.

    In a face-to-face interview, sure.

    But in an entirely digital marketplace for labor, you're legit better off just throwing shit at the wall until you actually make contact with another human being.

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  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    You can't custom Taylor every job application, chances are it's fake anyways and you have to apply for a lot

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  • [+] 6 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    From the other side of the aisle, consider receiving a dozen messages that just say "hi" and a handful that are legitimate attempts at conversation. You only have so much time in a day to respond, so which ones would you most likely respond to?

    In my experience of 2+ decades of dating across the gender spectrum (much of which was initiated online), the people who message "hi" often end up being bad conversationalists. I put effort into responses, just to get back something like "lol, that's great. wut u up to saturday?" Uh, probably looking for someone who'll respond as if they read what I wrote before attempting to meet me in person.

    Though I'm the kind of person who likes deep conversations, and I know not everyone is. I make it very clear in my profiles that we need to both feel a connection, so I expect someone who messages me to at least comment on one thing I wrote. Some people don't bother at all, just going by pictures and spamming "hi" to whoever is attractive to them, without reading a word the person wrote.

    Anyway, I think the point is that a lot of people don't put in the effort, whether man, woman, or nonbinary. People treat dating sites like it's a shopping website and they can just put people into their "cart," like we're just commodities that can be freely exchanged. If someone just says "hi" and nothing else, I assume that's the way they see me. I see no point in responding if the entire burden of conversation is going to fall onto my shoulders.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (14 children)

    Edit: Going to just bold 'vast majority' since people seem eager to ignore that part of what I wrote.

    I strongly disagree.

    Unless you're born into a wealthy zip code (and your zip code of birth correlates strongly with whether or not you become successful), you have four choices as far as I can see it: Crime, a lifetime of debt for a college degree, risk death in the military, or work a dead-end job until you inevitably can't afford to live.

    That is what the vast majority of young people are facing. They want to work, but even if they get a job, it doesn't keep up with the cost of living and neither ruling party is going to lift a finger to help them.

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  • [–] 14 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    The college degree also does not guarantee you're not working a dead-end job! I know graduates doing things like driving school busses, working as a barista, and just working in an apartment building office. No guarantee you'll find anything in your desired field

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    Or just be smart, hard working, and get scholarships by going to schools that offer generous aid packages.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (7 children)

    And where does that leave the rest of us mere mortals, you know the 99% of us humans that don't enjoy the smell of their own farts

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    We attended the college scholarship presentations for my kids. A bunch of scholarship folk from the colleges spoke about "Just apply" that's all it takes.

    Because millions in unclaimed scholarships are left on the table because nobody applied.

    One guy got the women's sport scholarship because no women applied for it, so the school was like what the hell might as well give it to somebody.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (5 children)

    Yeah but just apply implies a support system. Those kids dont just apply because they dont have parents who can force them to do it. And a ton of kids millions of them, did sit there and apply for the scholarships and now they're baristas and uber drivers. Because even if everyone went to college for free, not everyone can be a lawyer or a doctor, we need greater numbers of baristas and uber drivers than we need numbers of lawyers and doctors, the economics just doesn't work.

    So again, what are the 95% of us who arent in the top 5% supposed to do, just be poor forever fuck us?

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Also, uni doesn't have to be about career, it's personal growth. There is a good book, which I forget the title right now, about how countries that stop teaching the arts start to have less critical thinkers in society and just become factory minded workers with no questioning of the capitalistic nature their country is pushing onto them to only increase profit. So really we should all have free schooling to grow as a society, even if your passion is making the perfect latte

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (3 children)

    Trades is the best bet. I left Uni, and went into a trade. At 23 I had a house, wife, car, and baby on the way—Trades can be surprising lucrative, and can lead into other avenues via the variety of skills learned.

    For example, now I train engineers how to use their software or how to solve the technical problem they face via the sequrnce of tools in the engineering program.

    In some cases I'm earning more than the engineers. Their paper might open other oversea jobs though.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (2 children)

    Dude we're not talking about personal advice, we're talking about policy, what's a good idea for one person to do cannot be a social policy.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    You asked: What are the rest of us supposed to do LOL. If you don't like local policy, and in a country thwt isnt going to change, move to a country that has free Uni. There are many like Germany where as long as you show you are integrating you can get school paid.

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago

    you have four choices as far as I can see

    I don't think these are "four choices", as Crime and The Military are roughly interchangeable. Both of them are dead end jobs that only function if they give you a leg up into a degreed profession. I also have to say... you really don't need to go into a "lifetime of debt" to get a degree from a city college or community college. We're talking the cost of a car - too much, to be sure - but not every university is charging Harvard rates.

    Beyond that, pretty much every job takes you along the path from entry level newb to valued technical master. What skills you develop and where they add that value can change with the shape of the economy and the technological frontier. But in the end, where you spend your time working trains you to do what you will be paid for in the future. There's not four choices, there's more like two choices - do what you're doing right now or change and start back at the bottom of the ladder.

    That is what the vast majority of young people are facing.

    The vast majority of young people have no experience and no background. So they're attacking what is a very opaque job market in the economic headwinds of an '06/'07 or '00/'01 financial meltdown. But you're not an entry level employee forever. Learning your profession is as much about learning how to get paid as how to do the work. Your income is ultimately predicated on your ability (and luck) when navigating between employers and across downturns.

    But careers do improve over time. You're not the new guy forever.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    The interest is in getting paid, not the work itself.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Great. then you can work for shitty employers

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    I mean yeah I do work for shitty employers cause they at least pay decent even if they don't do anything else right

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    The downvotes are misplaced. I have seen this job seeking lack of skill first hand. Job wants a cover letter, work history, and notes about looking for a person with past volunteer experience to show that they are a community driven individual; since the employer donates profit to the community. Resume comes in and instead of cover letter, it has a long rant about they felt their upbringing was badly done by parents. No awareness about what was requested as the application process, and no self awareness about oversharing at a job interview.

    And it's not isolated.

    Had one guy answer all good answers to questions claiming to know this software package. 2 weeks in its looking odd that he hasn't finished the training package, turns out he was just on Instagram all day. Found out he had no clue about the software and why he was also canned at previous job. We have no issues training a good candidate, but if you just lie and hope to coast without doing anything...well there is the door.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Why are you booing him? He's (kind of) right!

    Lot of young idiots out there because of terrible parenting.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    because the lemmy userbase thinks everything isn't their fault. they are hapless victims who should never have to learn or try or progress... clearly if only AI didn't exist... they'd be be making 300K a year and own 3 homes...

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Yeah youre mostly spot on. I do despise ai used for anything other than data crunching. But its used for way more bad than good.

    Now I made it pretty good because I'm not a minority and dont have health issues and I have a good work ethic and desire to learn. Not everyone is so lucky. So fuck all billionaires that blame the poor.

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  • sets your application above like 95% of the rest of them

    Bro if everyone does this there's still 95% of people who wouldn't get a job, like it's good advice for an individual, try to be elite, but ultimately it's advice we ALL got in school(i.e. youre not telling anybody anything they dont already know) and we ALL try that and 95% have to be left out of that top 5% by definition.

    Which the interesting thing about your comment is that you demonstrate a huge flaw of all conservative rhetoric actually -- what's good personal advice for an individual CANNOT be any kind of coherent social policy. It's confusing the micro and macro, it's nonsense, like confusing general relativity and quantum mechanics. Yes heisenberg uncertainty principle is absolutely real but you cannot use that to talk about planets and stars. Yes, being personally financially responsible and saving more than you earn is great advice for any individual but you cannot use that as general economic advice, it would literally crash the economy.

    Back to your example, what happens when a company is looking to hire three people and they get 3000 excellent applicants? They're gonna reject 2997 excellent personalized amazing applications.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Yes, but I also see the flip side. I often went without luxuries, or even good food in the early 90s (like cutting mold off my bread to make a sandwich for work) so that we could save to buy our first house. While I see young family members complain that life is expensive and its a boomer problem, but they forget their 20k debt is because they are using Skip to order a milkshake, burger, sub etc. every day. There has been a conveniece culture created, besides capitalism running wild on house prices.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    ...yeah. The people commenting here have unrealistic expectations. I feel as though they're using old sitcoms and movies to make assumptions about the boomer generation.

    The people alive today in the United States have an unsustainably high standard of living; we need to continue supporting international wars of conquest if we want to keep what we have. The international politics of the Boomer generation is the source of our wealth.

    Personally, I think I have more than I deserve. I have no illusions regarding my worth.

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  • [–] 41 points 6 months ago* (6 children)

    I don't really care about boomerism any more

    make people who believe in late stage capitalism have to survive the low end of it. regardless of who they are

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  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    I'd pay to see one of those little DOGE wankers forced to work on a construction site

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Fuck construction, put them in customer service

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I have always said, if I were elected President, my first act would be to eliminate the draft and institute mandatory retail service of 2 years for everyone - especially those above a certain age and who make above a certain annual salary.

    It would either force people to learn empathy and make the world a better place, or it would destroy the country. And I don't care which.

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  • [–] 35 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Would be better if they had to apply online with an 18-25 year olds resume.

    Boomers have the advantage of personal connections that they have built up over the course of a lifetime. Many of them will still be able to find a job "the old fashioned way" just through those connections.

    Many still will not. Because job hunting is still garbage. But it's still not a good way to show them reality unless they have a blank slate with 100k in student loan debt.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Would be better if they had to apply online with an 18-25 year olds resume.

    ...which they then need to re-type into 17 different fields in a not quite broken corporate HR website.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago*

    Don't forget:

    "sign in with "

    Asked you to create a separate password and login anyway. For some reason never uses it but requires you to use a "one time password" sent to your email each time you login.

    Also, you can't login with your email address. You have to use a username you don't remember because your usual one is already taken.

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  • [–] 29 points 6 months ago

    I'd pay good money to see them going door to door with their résumés, only to be met with the blank gen Z stare of children who don't even know who owns the shop they work at, or why an old man is trying to hand them a scrap of paper with their life story on it.

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  • [–] 28 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Phone calls and in person died off in the late 2000s. There was still the occasional HR with public access but it was more: use one of the computers right over there. Nope, keep that resume, input that information at the application station.

    By the early 2010s, those were gone. No one knows where the door to HR is now. That knowledge has been lost to all but the few who work there. The phone was also disconnected at that time.

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  • [–] 26 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    In a lot of places, HR isn't even on site, or in some cases, they're not even part of the company. I know my current employer contracts their HR services.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago*

    our HR basally begs us for personal references once every few months, even offering referral bonuses for like $1000.

    and almost none of our hires come from that. they are mostly blind hires for entry level. for mid and upper level they are head hunted.

    we tried temp to hire through but those employees were almost always fired for being total disasters.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    I'm 60. I'm not sure I could get another job using my own advice either.

    I am working with several people trying to break into my field and it's almost impossible. Mostly because it's a bit of niche field, and almost everyone in it has decades of experience.

    It's considered a second entry profession so most people did something else first. There are now diplomas and certifications for young people interested in the field. As a profession we talk about how to ladder younger people in, but struggle with what entry level looks like. A few years work experience and a professional certification just doesn't stack up in an interview against a few decades of experience.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Sounds like the company needs to create a lower level position at lower pay to get the less qualified people in. Then you can promote from that pool when you need the higher level positions.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Don't quote me on this but I think you're cooking! We need a name for a role that makes it easy for people to enter our industry, maybe we can call it something like entry level!

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    🤣

    The issue with him is people with standard exp can't get standard roles due to too many overqualified applicants.

    But yeah. Opening up entry level roles for people with standard exp sucks.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    You've got it. If I need someone with logistics experience do I take someone straight out of school who did some a co-op term with a county emergency service or someone with 15 years in the military maintaining supply lines. And if I want to prioritize civilian experience there is a whole pack of police, paras, and firefighters looking for first retirement at 40 who can leverage that experience.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Shit, I'm only 39 and don't think anyone should try to get into my career field now. Tech's entry level is all but gone. I don't know who the companies plan to promote to senior roles in the future when their senior people retire...

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    You don't get it. You're not supposed to apply in the field you worked before, or that you're good at.

    The whole point is use boomer advice to apply to the jobs that are out there, with the salaries that are out there.

    The whole point is that the job market sucks and you don't get to choose because there's more job applicants than positions.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I'm on the side that hires. It's ugly over here as well. We still do resumes and I screen manually - yes I actually read them because I don't even trust HR to screen forget about AI. We get 300+ resumes for an opening and every one of them is a person with a story. At the end of the process I will have one very happy person, 5 feeling they were so close, and ~290 thinking nobody read their stuff.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, as a millennial I can feel this. Graduated in 2008 from university and couldn't find a single job in my field. Couldn't find a job out of my field. Couldn't even get hired by fucking Taco Bell.

    Eventually sold my body for money.

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  • [–] 39 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    They should also apply for entry level stuff.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Season 2, doing that entry level job.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago*

    Mid-season finale: learning that was just a government-aided internship period, and they can'twon't actually pay for another full-time employee, because they can just use their existing experienced workers to cover the extra tasks at no extra cost.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)

    Just walk in ,demand to see the Big Boss, look him in the eye and ask for a job!

    That was among the nuggets of whizdum from my Silent Gen parents.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago

    Even in late 2000s companies were just doing resume collecting at internship or career fairs.

    Hell think king of the hill was even doing episodes of how hard it was to get jobs it during its early seasons. When wallmart causes every business to go out of business

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  • [–] 14 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    My dad had to do it because he was too old at 56 (office job). In 3 years (government support and savings) he could not find anyone who would take him. Eventually he started working small construction jobs (which he enjoys doing) through someone that did work on his house.

    So I think there are plenty older people that actually know the difficulty.

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  • [–] 68 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    The generation war, the political war is just to distract us from the fact we are all under assault by a class war from the super rich. If we fight each other, we can't fight the rich.

    Blame it on the billionaires, not other generations.

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  • [–] 35 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    we are all under assault by a class war from the super rich

    It isn't strictly from the super rich. There's layers to the class conflict. It's like an onion.

    You have a large and entrenched class of pensioners who do actively resist any form of liberal economic reforms. You have an incredibly lucrative tech sector that rent-seeks off the political paranoia of the internet age. You have a bloated leviathan of police state, upon which tens of thousands of parasitic Kandy Krush Kops subsist. You have legions of ex-military mercenaries, security guards, consultants, D-list celebrity personalities, and bouncers. Then you've got sheriff's offices and prison companies and home security sellers and media propagandists and outright scammers, all drawing their incomes off a social fear of the underclass.

    Plutocracy doesn't exist in a vacuum. A sizable chunk of the consumer economy is predicated on the process of violently suppressing the tier of labor below your own. We are not all under assault. Many of us are doing the assaulting.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    not when those generations actively support the bullshit by being stubborn and ignorant

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago

    I'd rather one where we make lawmakers live the average life of their constituents.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago

    Alot of baby boomers do easily get jobs... Because the baby boomers are also the hiring manager

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago

    A bigger show would be made of people handing over their parents for social justice like this, based on bullshit they inflict upon their kids. And I mean all of it: jobs, economy, romance, marriage, everything. Lots of people's heads become full of advice that has aged like milk, but are too stubborn to admit that's the case.

    Back it up with an intervention style forum and follow-up episodes about the inevitable counseling to follow and I'm in.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago

    I don't believe you could make this as a terrestrial broadcast show on the Big Three Networks, but I absolutely believe you could make it as a series of YouTube Shorts or Mr. Beast style exploitation videos.

    Imagine this with a soyjack next to it.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Next, make the Boomer buy a house without using their current assets as a down payment.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    You don't even need to be a Boomer for this to be true. I'm 38. The only reason my partner and I own a house as nice as the one we currently do is because I got on the property market pretty early. I was in a place to buy a cheap town home in 2012. I put $3k down on an FHA mortgage on a $92k townhouse, and that got me out of renting. I've made plenty of extra payments over the years, even paid the mortgage on that townhouse twice. Since then I got married, and we moved across the country.

    But yeah, we recently moved into our third home (we own only one home.) And we bought it for $600k with $400k down. Some of that is from ordinary principal payments. Some from early payments. But the vast majority of that $600k was from simple price appreciation. We bought at the bottom of the market and have rode it all the way up. And yeah, there is no way we could afford our current place if we had to buy without that equity we've built up.

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