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[–] 81 points 7 months ago
[–] 137 points 7 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)
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[–] 86 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Why do some people just have the worst fucking ideas...and why is "some" starting to feel like "most"

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Because media propaganda makes it seem as if the majority have certain views. People don't like to be on the outside so if the media can trick people into conforming then they will try that.

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  • [–] 39 points 7 months ago

    However.. ive read the associated analysis of the California bill that reads directly on legislative intent:

    quoting he Cali Senate Judiciary Committee analysis : file:///home/jspaleta/Downloads/202520260AB1043_Senate%20Judiciary.pdf

    Why are we listening to a person who tried to link a file directly from their downloads folder?

    Also the original post that the article is referencing on the fedora forums is suggesting that we remove all networking support from baseline linux as some way to comply/circumvent the law.

    I'm sorry, but I just can't take anything said in that forum post seriously.

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  • [–] 32 points 7 months ago
    [–] 30 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Dang, am I about to become an Arch user?

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    I already got BSD on a spare laptop. Granted it was freeBSD and I think I might switch to OpenBSD since the latter's foundation is Canadian and not US based.

    But yeah if they go through with this I will be uninstalling it off my gaming machine and switching to Arch 100%. I really appreciated that line about it "not being April fools" when it was introduced in their github thread.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    If youre not picky and want to use the default setups, arch install is so easy now. The script is very easy to follow and takes like 10 mins to install depending on your network speed. The only "hard" part during the install is connect to the internet. But iwctl takes care of that

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    It's a lot easier to use than one would guessed it at first. Much easier, than wrestling with getting the right cmake/gcc versions every time on Debian the moment you don't want to use not a 2+ years old version of something.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Is there a swastika in that image?

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago

    Because they are corporate-backed I can understand why Fedora would need to think about this, but I would never use them again. The surveillance state will stay the fuck out of my devices. The discussion also seems to be centered on GNOME?

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    We’re not legally required to have age verification here so if they try that shit here we’re just Gina nice to Arch/arch like :/

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Yeahhhh

    We use Debian and ripped out systemd (replaced it with openrc) a bit before all this happened. Feeling really good about that choice now.

    (unrelated: plural gang! :3)

    -- Frost

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    We’re still relatively new to Linux even after a year of switching. Started learning more about the terminal just to get comfortable with it and it’s not hard at all, just got to remember ask the commands haha (did make a cheat sheet lol)

    (Unrelated: Yoooo plural gang!!!! :D) -PJ & Sam

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

    (*wags tail at both PJ and Sam!!* =^.^=)

    yeah! Terminal's super useful but also kind of daunting.

    If y'all haven't seen the man pages, they make an excellent reference. Honestly, they're basically written more as reference than as tutorial type stuff most of the time. So that's there whenever your cheatsheet doesn't cover something.

    Also we use zsh (without plugins, you don't need plugins) and it's got really fancy autocomplete. We can just type - and hit tab and get a list of all the options for that command (that zsh knows about; I don't think it goes and reads man pages for you or anything like that). I can't remember how you turn that on but I think it's something you can do from zsh's initial setup wizard. I don't know if bash can do the same thing or not, I think probably not (but we're not super up to date on bash).

    (I'd avoid fish, which you might also run into if you go looking for fancy features. It's known for really fancy features but it's also not compatible with normal shell scripts, which'll screw you up if you ever want to get into scripting. zsh does normal shell script syntax (with the exception of protecting you if you forget to quote your variables) and also has really nice fancy features like the autocomplete.)

    -- Frost

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Got ya, will look into the zhs!! Sounds super useful. And yush found out about the man from a tutorial for useful commands in terminal. 90% of the time we’re converting files with ffmpeg and running yt-dlp lol -PJ

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago

    Nothing is sacred to these fucks

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    As long as I have root, I’m as old as I wanna be.

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  • [+] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    sudo rm /bin/evil-age-verification-binary

    Or if it's done through systemd: git clone, remove the offending code, and compile.

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  • [–] 51 points 7 months ago

    Ok well I suggest Fedora Project leader get fucked. Plenty of other good distros bub.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    bro... wtf should i use now??

    Back to Arch??

    Back to Debian??

    or fuck it go TempleOS.....

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    [–] 15 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Glad I ditched Fedora a while ago.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    ... sssssssiiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhh

    I went with a Fedora distro because the Intel GPU drivers were less of a headache. Guess I must now find another distro...

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I would wait and be very vocal about not wanting it in the forums and stuff first.

    This isn't decided and nothing has been added yet at the time of me writing this.

    It deserves to be ridiculed and shot down through so that it never makes it through but the problem is Red Hat is an American company.

    So I always knew this was going to happen to fedora. Still though, let's see what happens.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    it's cute how you think IBM won't comply with their biggest contract holder.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    I think they will, but I will wait and see confirmation before I go scorched earth and re install another version of Linux.

    I know ultimately that you are right though, but I stills expect pushback and I'm hoping all this shit just gets overturned or an exclusion made for FOSS at the very least.

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    For solutions that back on actually "verifying" the age by requiring credit card or government ID, those suck.

    As described, this is an administrator self describing the age, which doesn't mean much to anyone except kids of people who apply parental controls to systems their kids have access to.

    Accounts already require your "full name" but we don't consider that "full name verification".

    This proposal seems to be in the spirit of least intrusive means to let parents opt into this stuff if they want, with no ties to identity compromising third party/state "verification".

    Question is whether this sort of solution that at least gives parents some chance will satisfy the lawmakers long term. For the wave of laws now, it seems to suffice to self attest age.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Accounts already require your “full name” but we don’t consider that “full name verification”.

    They don't require anything. You can leave that empty or just put John Doe. All that is required for an account on a Linux system is a username and a password.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Well strictly speaking the full name field is always there, but a lot of people have the full name "".

    But less pedantic, perhaps require was the writing word, but same principle, put whatever you want in dob field, default to 1970 or something.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    inb4

    sudo usermod —birthday “1970-01-01”
    
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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago

    Linux Distros Could Tell Fedora To Eat Shit.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I hope OpenSuse doesn't follow, or I will have to switch to a fully community distro that have already said the f word to age verification

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The antix linux call gets stronger and stronger for me everyday. I have it on a 23 year old laptop and it runs quite well, although it isn't as clean as a using a full DE. While I do like running an enterprise grade OS, I'm happy to ditch any weak-willed organization that won't stand up for itself or it's users and become a radical antifascist communist cypherpunk hippie anarchist (on the outside).

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  • [+] 38 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago* (10 children)

    Oh wait, there aren't people chiming in to call me and others a fucking idiot and a stupid man child and all the other talking points for suggesting that the systemd merge was going to escalate?

    Fascinating. I wonder where they all went. Maybe they're on the BSD forums now, but somehow I doubt it.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Sure I can chime in here.

    You did actually read the post correct? Not just the title? The original poster, Jef, is talking about implementing a Unix socket or a dbus protocol similar to what apple already has. They are literally just referencing their definition for a struct.

    So no this will not be ID verification, it won't ask for face scans, and it won't necessarily send the data anywhere.

    The article is just using the big A word as some boogeyman to generate clicks and further rile up the community.

    The systemd change is benign and this is not proof of your slippery slope theory.

    Edit: I swear literacy rates in the linux community must be dropping.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    I read it and just like the systemd merge, this isn't the end for this.

    We can circle back when it turns into full blown identification standards though if its more comfortable for you to come to terms with the reality then.

    Also, "won't necessarily send the data anywhere" isn't exactly comforting.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    I just want to make sure that we do agree on a few things.

    1. Requiring actual ID verification and/or face scans is bad and cannot be effectively anonymized.
    2. That many of the current bills do not require ID verification or face scans. This includes the California one that the systemd merge request cites as well as the Colorado one that it mostly identical.
    3. The laws in their current form are poorly written and clearly misunderstand how modern general purpose computers work and are referred to.

    Given that, I think we can ultimately agree that the NY, UK, Germany, and I think also the Brazil laws are bad and cannot be fixed with simple updates to language.

    So let's focus on the law's that do not require actual verification since that is what the systemd change cites.

    What issues do you have outside of that they are poorly written and ineffective or that they are a slippery slope/frog in a pot/tip of the spear?

    This is not about my comfort this is about what these laws actually require rather than some imaginary law that has not even been written yet.

    I figured that someone might latch onto that "necessarily" and that's the great thing about open-source. If that distro/application/os does misuse your data then don't use it or fork it.

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  • [+] -9 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Oh no more people are talking about how to implement the least possible invasive version of age verification! Now they're referencing standards for it!

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, some of us really don't want our home PCs directly contributing to the surveillance state, and we sure as hell don't appreciate pre-compliance to the demands of increasingly fascistic states.

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  • [+] -6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Unless I'm mistaken everything being discussed here is still entirely within the context of your own system. Every date you put in is unverified and would only serve for something like parental control tools.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    That's cool but we don't want any which you seem to not understand.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    That's cool, just lie? Like there's no verification process going on here, this is a field on your system that can be set to whatever you want which will empower parents to keep their children out of platforms like discord where they will be predated on, and can be completely ignored by users like me who do not have any reason to restrict my own system. But keep pitching a fit over this little bullshit instead of actual age verification policies that are going to require your face id, government id, etc for every platform you interface with.

    EDIT: It really feels like you people just react to the headline and don't even read the article. One of the core points of their discussion in the first place is that the entitlements oriented approach to parental controls is better and that it seems that legislation is poorly informed for going after an age-centric approach in the first place. These people aren't the boogeyman trying to fuck over you and yours, they're contributors trying to figure out how to make their platforms better in the face of obligate compliance.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    As if their consoderation of adopting AI into their dev stack wasn't enough.

    Anyone have any recommendations for distros like Fedora that don't have systemd and won't consider using AI, but do support KDE?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    I've been going down there same rabbit hole. Right now, I'm trying to learn Slackware. Happy for other suggestions though

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    What problem does this even solve? On Linux, what app would even be asking how old you are? Web browsers for sure, and maybe electron apps like Discord? But what else is there?

    I'm on Bazzite (based on Fedora). I'm comfy with it, moving distros is a significant effort, so I'm very unlikely to ever jump ship. If I have to make a workflow that mirrors the official Bazzite images and neuters this age check, so be it. Not that complicated.

    But I'm willing to bet the community will step up and maintain browsers/apps that don't have these age checks in the first place. Firefox has many forks that definitely won't, and Vesktop will probably stub this out when it inevitably comes to Discord. If there's nothing to ask for age verification, it doesn't matter what the OS can do.

    I really don't see a need to burn a distro I'm comfortable with, even if the upstream maintainers are a little dumb. There a ton of ways to bend a Linux distro to your will without throwing your hands up.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago* (8 children)

    What problem does this even solve? On Linux, what app would even be asking how old you are? Web browsers for sure, and maybe electron apps like Discord? But what else is there?

    I'm on Bazzite (based on Fedora). I'm comfy

    well, the app catalog, steam, certain games, ...

    tbh parental controls would be useful to have. you can't be watching every minute if they are doing something inappropriate. usage time limits are also useful.

    why are people so much against tools? we are so afraid of the slippery slope that we don't even consider to accept legitimately useful optional tools

    can we acknowledge that what happens on the internet today is harmful to children? now, you either properly set up limits for them, or cut their access, if you want any good.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    All Linux distros either come with parental controls or have a way of installing them. This age verification shit was never about protecting the children.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    when I was looking I have found exactly zero parental controls for linux. which ones do you know?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Gnome has parental control https://help.gnome.org/gnome-help/parental-controls.html

    But it has some serious limitations: for example, you cannot block individual website reliably. Parents can consider piholes, but DNS sink hole on local network are often trivial to bypass.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (2 children)

    this is just limiting what apps can be opened, and it only works for flatpak apps. how will you disable all the other apps that are installed? how do you disable the shell which could be used to download a non-flatpak browser?

    and as you said it does not even try to limit which websites are allowed to be visited, or for how much time can the computer be used. a pihole can be circumvented with DoH, for which there is an easy toggle in firefox, probably chrome too

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Don't give your kids root permission so they can't install non-flatpak apps.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    of course, but no root permission is needed for that. flatpak packages can be installed on the user level, but even if you somehow disable that, they could still just download firefox (or anything else) as a tarball, unpack it and run it traditionally

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    can we acknowledge that what happens on the internet today is harmful to children?

    For 99% of what happens on the Internet? No. No, we can't. That would be malicious fearmongering.

    For the remaining 1% (or less)? Fine and impose sanctions on any companies that produce content intended to harm children (mostly Meta, and any company that makes games with lootboxes), and their CEOs and boards.

    Educate parents so they can prevent their children from accessing that harmful 1%. Fine any that refuse, and take their children away as you would any other abusers'.

    But this age tracking shit will do absolutely nothing to protect children, it will do absolutely nothing to educate parents, and worse of all will do absolutely nothing to stop the companies that intentionally harm children.

    Its only purpose is to control access to the Internet, and to establish a foothold to justify a slippery slope of ever worsening spyware measures, that will harm not only children but the whole population.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    For 99% of what happens on the Internet? No. No, we can't. That would be malicious fearmongering.

    malicious fearmongering? all that most people know about "the internet" is facebook, instagram, tiktok and the other corporate propaganda machines. by popularity, that is absolutely 99% of the internet, and not "the renaining 1%", as you are portraying it.

    Educate parents so they can prevent their children from accessing that harmful 1%

    wasn't that exactly what I was saying? providing tools in the freaking operating system to limit what your kid can do? but downvote me to hell because I'm clearly wrong and that will surely fix everything!

    But this age tracking shit will do absolutely nothing to protect children,

    you know what it will do? with proper OS level integration, with programs taking it upon themselves, easier presets for the kid to only access age appropriate things. age brackets, that's it.
    then even the web browser can manage the limitations natively, either with filterlists like what ublock uses, or when the visited website self-declares its category.

    Its only purpose is to control access to the Internet,

    how in the fucking hell will it control access to the internet when the local system administrator can change the age bracket setting in the OS.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Does Fedora has a Code of Conduct? Time to update it to either be

    • the meaningless "Be excellent to each other!" (as seen in any open source Elon Musk project),
    • or to include "protecting diverse opinions" (which is always a code word for "protecting bigotry") instead of throwing out bigots who often don't even meaningfully contribute to the project,
    • or to the Ten Commandments,

    if they really like the taste of the boot. Maybe they could remove "woke" elements altogether for that sweet fascist-controlled US money.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    age verification made easy:

    user has internet access -> contracts can only be made by adults -> thus age is verified...

    also... whoever provides minors internet access goes to jail

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago

    the whole point of age verification is control of adults. Kids are always just excuse, people who spout "think of the children!!" style rethoric always couldnt care less about kids. Those who do dont yell about it and actually do stuff to help kids, so its easy to tell them apart.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    I know this is tongue in cheek but kids should be able to use the internet. It's important that kids become digitally literate and the wonders of the internet are great.

    It's so obvious that social media has made the world an objectively worse place and this is just another extension of that. Social media companies should face consequences when they harm children, full stop. Personally, I'd be fine with banning social media outright but I understand some may have free speech concerns. However, I don't see how the interests of corporate capital and the attention economy can be squared inside this circle. Corpos will always want to maximize screen-time and they don't give a hot fuck who's brain they melt. Unfortuantely we live in a world where even the president of the US is a demented pedophile rapist so I don't have much hope for people like Zuck seeing the consequences of his actions.

    Social media is a societal disease and until we actually deal with the root of the problem, which honestly doesn't have anything to do with kids at all and really boils down to capitalist incentives and their relation to the attention economy, we will continue to see harms inflicted upon the digital citizens of the world.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Whoever the fuck supports age verification should be hung!!! Fuck that shit!!

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  • [+] -6 points 7 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Any form of age verification is a violation of user privacy.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    if im the root user then no user on my system has privacy

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    It's not about your system. It's about every system connecting to the Internet. It's not local age verification, it's widespread monitoring by the government.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    This is gonna kill Linux, which I'm sure is the intention.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Youtube requires age verification for some content since many years.

    Out of curiosity, who here is still browsing YT without verified age?

    Who browses YT logged in with their google account and verified age?

    Too bad we don't have pool here. I would really like to see what % of people complaining about age verification here verified their age in their google account.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    well well here we go again old friend:

    sudo pacman -Syu

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