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[–] 70 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Nah we got several alternatives, like sudo-rs, doas (my personal choice), please, etc. All good.

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  • [–] 26 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    sudo-rs doesn't implement all the functionality of regular sudo, which causes certain applications to break. I had to install sudo.ws on the latest Ubuntu to get regular sudo back. Many installation scripts depend on sudo, not alternatives.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago

    It's simple to just symlink whatever you want to sudo and have it work in the same way. These alternatives implement enough for most use cases to make them viable IMO.

    Any software that invokes a privilege escalation utility should have a setting or option to choose which such utility should be invoked. Otherwise the software should be run with already escalated privileges, if it needs them to function. Or call a library that can do privilege escalation, after asking for credentials.

    That's my take. 🤷‍♂️

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  • [–] 39 points 9 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    alias make_me_a_sandwich="sudo "

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    I just added this alias, maybe I'll remember it exists every once in a while

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    I added "alias fucking=sudo" and I never remeber to use it :(

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    It's work by ppl like these that we owe our technological & even societal advances to, not a bunch of megacorps that enslave humanity in monetisation loops keeping us stuck in place & stagnating.
    (Said megacorps also owe their existence to the same open work & infrastructure.)

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Well, I still have pfexec anyway.

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  • 77 comments in c/programming@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 76 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    That Ubuntu unity article where the maintainer was a 10 year old when he started the project but now has shit to do is pretty funny.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 45 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    This has been depressing for a while now. I’m a big Unity fan and I’m concerned about the future.

    "Maybe someone could teach us how things are done so that we can take it over in time," Adamietz added.

    Wasn’t any of this documented anywhere? And who are these other team members they interviewed? How is it they don’t know how to write code? Are they just manual testers or something?

    I’d try to help myself if there was some decent documentation on where to begin. But if it’s all in this kids head, we might be kinda fucked.

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  • [–] 39 points 9 months ago

    Following publication, Miller has been in touch to tell us that he has no plans to abandon sudo, or even hand it off, but he suspects change is still on the horizon for the essential tool.

    "While I don't expect to maintain sudo for an additional 30 years, I also don't currently have someone to pass the torch to," Miller told us. He noted that the xz utils backdoor has made him hesitant to hand it off to someone he doesn't know, and that he "feels responsible for sudo" after having spent so long as its lead dev and maintainer.

    Unfortunately, a lack of financial backing means sudo work has ground to a glacial pace.

    "Since I have limited time I've mostly been focused on fixing bugs and cleaning up the code base rather than adding new features," Miller said. "As a result the amount of time I spend is heavily influenced by the bug reports I receive."

    Funding or not, Miller expects sudo-rs to become the next generation of the tool in coming years.

    "Ubuntu is already shipping sudo-rs as the default sudo command in their latest versions," Miller told us. "I've been in contact with the people working on sudo-rs since the project started and I trust them to do right by the sudo user base."

    Regardless of what happens, Miller agrees the sudo situation he's in is yet another example of how open-source maintainers is putting the entire computing community in a bind.

    "Without some form of assistance it is untenable," Miller said. "Maintainer burn-out is real."

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  • [–] [S] 36 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (16 children)

    It reminds me somehow on the famous xkcd webcomic: https://xkcd.com/2347

    Edit for an addition: Maybe it's also a reminder that we should frequently donate when we use FOSS.

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  • [+] -140 points 9 months ago* (12 children)
  • [–] 84 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Really? You want to post slop on Lemmy? That’s what went through your brain? That’s what you considered a good enough idea that you’d execute it?

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  • [–] 97 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Not just AI slop but a right wing dog whistle as AI slop.

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    The third frame here needs to be the same businessman in increasingly more fancy suits or gold or other gaudy-ass shit.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, the transition from the third frame to the fourth frame just doesn't make sense as currently depicted; why would people playing video games suddenly start to revolt?

    However, if the third frame were to depict rich men getting richer as you suggest, then the revolt in the fourth frame would make more sense.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    You're putting way too much thought into analyzing AI slop

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  • [–] 131 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    imagine if he said fuck it and turned sudo into a crypto mining malware

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  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    To be honest, it wouldn't take much for distro maintainers to detect that and stop it

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    But who is seriously looking at the sudo code at every update. I would bet a lot of money that the vast majority simply trust him and gloss over it maximum.

    The chain of trust has to exist otherwise distrobox maintainers would spend 24 hours a day reviewing code changes and only update once every 6 months.

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  • [–] 89 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    It’s been 12 years since Heartbleed and we’ve had numerous ”lone maintainer” issues since then. The situation shouldn’t come as a surprise or be especially ”hard to believe”.

    This is the state of free software, especially when it matures.

    Unless the creators manage to roll some kind of ”commercial” version, it’s not very sustainable in the long run. Turns out many eyes don’t really equal many PRs

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    In my experience a lot of these old projects really go out of their way to dissuade contributions anyway. Lots of naysaying "it's always been like that", ancient infrastructure - e.g. insisting on git send-email patches, etc.

    Usually the only way it gets resolved is when someone writes a more modern competitor and it starts gaining traction. Suddenly all those improvements that people tried to do and were told were impossible and stupid aren't such a bad idea after all.

    I don't think that's the case with Unity but it probably is with things like GCC, sudo, sysvinit, X11, etc.

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Funding or not, Miller expects sudo-rs to become the next generation of the tool in coming years.

    "Ubuntu is already shipping sudo-rs as the default sudo command in their latest versions," Miller told us. "I've been in contact with the people working on sudo-rs since the project started and I trust them to do right by the sudo user base."

    Projects don't last forever, and when they inevitably end, it's an opportunity to switch to something newer and hopefully better. Sudo coming to an end, if it does, will just force people onto alternatives.

    Being open source, sudo will always exist, whether someone else wants to maintain it, fork it, use it as-is, or just reference it. It's because it's open source that it can serve a purpose even beyond its EOL.

    Anyway, sudo's not dead yet, so there's still plenty of time for people to look at what's out there. Some distros have already moved to, or are considering moving to, alternatives like sudo-rs, so I'd expect that to continue.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    sudo-rs might never be adopted as a default in many distros precisely because it's in rust. or rust adoption gets better and better to the point that it runs everywhere.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Rust shouldn't be an issue IMO. Any rust libraries used are statically linked, only the good ol' C and C++ (if any) libraries it depends on would have to be dependencies to the package. So it should theoretically offer fewer issues with dependencies than the original sudo.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    What I was saying was: Rust doesn't support all the targets C does

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago*

    Technically yes, but all the common ones are covered. I don't think any mainstream distros support anything so exotic that Rust doesn't compile for it. Gentoo supports Alpha and HPPA which haven't been around since the 90s, those are the only architectures that Gentoo has sudo packages for, that Rust doesn't support. Your run of the mill distros don't support anything this exotic. Common everyday architectures we see all the time in our daily lives like SPARC, PowerPC or RISC-V are supported.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago

    https://git.sudo.ws/sudo

    According to the above Robert Manner and AZero13 also have one contribution each. There's also the https://opencollective.com/sudo-project which has a board.

    If Todd wants to pass off the project he has all the resources to do this.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Excuse me, but how isn't this a core feature, or do I think too complicated?

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    Don't tap Jia Tan…

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    Isn't the whole point of FOSS software that anyone can fork it?

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    You can fork it. Are you gonna maintain your fork? Is your fork going to be adopted by the majority of distributions?

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Mine won't certainly, but by the magic of FOSS I'm sure someone will do it.

    Oh look, someone already has...

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    What do you mean someone already has? As of this comment it has 268 forks on GitHub.

    Creating a fork takes one click, and doesn't mean anyone will adopt it. Maintaining a codebase is not as simple as "magic of FOSS", someone has to dedicate their time to it.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago

    Okay, that's a lot of someones. That doesn't contradict "someone has forked it." You're being unnecessarily assy.

    As per other comments, sudo-rs exists and is being maintained. And that's the magic of FOSS.

    Although it's apparently not a fork. But it's still a workable substitute, and that's what matters. My entire point was that the entire Linux ecosystem isn't going to be fucked just because one guy dies or decides to stop maintaining a widely used codebase.

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    The article points out that sudo has already been forked by Ubuntu maintainer canonical into sudo-rs which reimplements sudo in rust with better memory protections. It also states that the maintainer of sudo expects sudo-rs to be the future of sudo.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    That's good, at least everything won't collapse catastrophically at this like a single point of failure without any redundancies. It would be better if someone other than canonical would do it, but at least it's not like no one is...

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    Just waiting for another xz utils situation

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    One does not simply maintain sudo (lotrmeme.jpg)

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    The fact that the FOSS model is still considered the best thing ever is so sad to me. The "free" part is clearly not working. Or rather it is working as is now intended: free labour for the private sector to exploit.

    The Telekommunist Manifesto for the longer version of this 🙃

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    How is the free part not working? FOSS is the cure of the industry. Or do you think Adobe and Microsoft is working that great? Imagine if we didn't have FOSS...

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    I don't deny its great contributions to the public and free culture, but I think it has become insufficient. The industry abuses it as much as it can, so I believe the only way to defend ourself is to migrate to a copyfarleft licensing model. With it, we can keep the same openness and freedom for the commons, but force the private sector to choose: either pay for our work, or fuck off.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Funny, you are using with lemmy something for free, which is to some extent in the spirit of FOSS.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    "Haha funny you use a phone and buy things yet you are anticapitalist haha" ahh argument

    The copyfarleft licenses are not incompatible with the spirit of FOSS, they work exactly the same for the people, the only difference is that companies can either fuck off or pay

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The "free" part is clearly not working. Or rather it is working as is now intended: free labour for the private sector to exploit.

    I remember seeing a thread about redis on r/linux where lots and lots of people were basically defending Amazon as if from an anarcho-capitalist position. This confused me as I always saw foss (and foss users) as leaning socialist and anti-corporate.

    I spoke to someone about that and they linked me this article (and the article linked in the first sentence) which really opened my eyes.

    The TL;Dr is basically:

    FOSS is not socialist. The free software movement is right-libertarian / "anarcho"-capitalist, and the open source movement is neoliberal; neither of these is even particularly close to socialism.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I'm not so sure the "open source" part is working either when you think about how AI tools were trained.

    It's really sad, because the accessibility of developing software and collaborative nature of the open source community is a big part of what drew me to software engineering as a career, and it's always been one of the first things I mention about why I love it. But, of course, these fucking evil companies found a way to take every individual part of something good and twist it into something awful.

    👀 1
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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    FOSS will always be incompatible with capitalism. There is no incentive for the capitalist class to pay for the open source they consume.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Wrong. In example Valve is putting money and work into FOSS. AND they make money of it and rely on it. Even Microsoft does contribute to Open Source, believe it or not, even is one of the top sponsors for Linux.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    The pittance that most of these companies do contribute is in no way a fair share of the profits they reap from using FOSS.

    Valve is an exception to the rule.

    You're arguing that the factory owner giving a few bucks to someone who produced a tool that improved productivity of the factory is somehow a just compensation.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    There has been the "4opens" criteria, that has been more on point than free/libre/open source.

    In hindsight, defeating corporate and AI piggery might have needed single-maintainer closed source with open protocols. Software components? Maybe it would have led to the compound document model instead of the app model, architecturally enforcing openness.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Not gonna lie, kinda blame systemd for this. The more utilities they swallow the more funding gets concentrated to the RedHat folks, and the less freedom you have to choose different software. They've certainly made some improvements in specific utilities, but there is an invisible cost of centralization

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    It doesn't seem any money that the sudo developer had received was redirected to systemd, even though systemd has its own sudo called run0, with interesting features such as limiting the amount of memory or CPU a command it runs can use. His employer supported sudo as his side project while he was employed to work on something else. The funding from big tech is instead going to the Rust rewrite, sudo-rs and other projects of its community.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    I didn't mean they were directly responsible for him losing the sponsorship, just that it has made it harder to find new ones.

    If my memory serves this isn't the first time systemd has moved into a space and the existing infrastructure has withered away. Vaguely thinking udev or logind, but its not so much a critique as a worry. I've played with OpenRc, RunIt, and Upstart over the years, and I want them to remain viable alternatives

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago

    Or get this: Linux is perfect as it is, so are current PC's.

    Ship it pre-installed on shovelware PC's, you don't need better.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago

    With the push to immutable distros and flatpak I wonder how long we will need sudo.

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