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[–] 148 points 1 year ago (19 children)

-Why there are pyramids in Egypt?

-Because Brits couldn't moved them to British Museum.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (16 children)

    how to write lists

    - Why there are pyramids in Egypt?
    - Because Brits couldn’t moved them to British Museum.
    

    renders to

    • Why there are pyramids in Egypt?
    • Because Brits couldn’t moved them to British Museum.
  • Markdown guide is in the toolbar (?⃝) alongside a button for lists.

    Edit: Disregard. They were trying to do quotation dashes.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Well, that's the reason why I didn't write it like that. I wanted it to look like a dash, just like in novels.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    By the way, Markdown also takes escape \, which is why sometimes the shrugging emoticon is missing left arm.

    - So this
    - also works with space

    So you don't even necessarily have to leave out the space.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Apparently there is already a separate symbol for speech dash, which is —. However its keyboard shortcut is obscure and I couldn't remember it later, but Markdown already covered this it seems. Writing --- renders as —, which I'll do from now on, if I don't forget about it next time.

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  • [+] -18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

    So breaking accessibility for the heck of it? How forward-thinking.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    How is it breaking accessibility?

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Good question: for basic accessibility, structure should be conveyed, which adds

    when technologies support programmatic relationships, it is strongly encouraged that information and relationships be programmatically determined

    The web supports programmatic relationships through correct markup, so the technique using semantic elements to mark up structure applies, specifically by using ol, ul and dl for lists or groups of links or the markdown equivalent.

    If you want to experience this yourself, then put on a blindfold, use a screenreader & compare your "list" to mine.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I don't have a screen reader installed so I cannot try it but I can guess how it can screw with it. However I agree with Monkey With A Shell here. It's not realistic for all users to follow semantics, this can only be solved with a better software.

    While I use markdown daily, apparently there are still things I don't know about it. Well, I mostly learn them when I need them but still. So, I could use — (speech dash) instead of -, which I assume wouldn't cause a problem with a screen reader. There is no way for me to remember its shortcut on the keyboard, but it seems Markdown already covered this with --- which ends up rendered as —.

    Thanks for making me noticing about it, learned something new today.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    It’s not realistic for all users to follow semantics

    Not realistic for users to write lists the normal way that doesn't look wrong? I don't know guys

    -first
    
    -second
    
    -third
    

    looks obviously bad whereas

    - first
    - second
    - third
    

    looks right. Then you see the rendered result in preview. You also had a button in the toolbar to create a list.

    I don't think this is asking much.

    If you weren't trying to write a list, though, then I don't know what you were doing & I doubt a chat bot will either: could you link to an example of what you were trying to do? For all you know, I'm a chat bot not figuring out your intent. No technology is about to fix PEBKAC.

    I think the bottom line is if you write lists normally, then everything else including accessibility will turn out right without you needing to understand the intricacies.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I definitely wasn't trying to write a list, it was a riddle or a conversation. What I was trying to do is this:

    Though, it seems speech dash is not a thing in English. So I understand the confusion.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah its not a thing in English. In Spanish it is as well and learning to read novels in English was a bit confusing at first. I believe the official name is en dash or em dash I forget which

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Didn't really notice until now, though it seems some English speaking people used these dashes in their books apparently but I don't think I ever read one of them. It's hilarious to see these cultural differences may cause problems like this. :)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    You had me pondering…yes, quotation dash: it is a thing in English, just less common!

    Please disregard what I wrote before: you had it almost correct, but use quotation dashes ― as you suggested before. Some OSes offer nice character pickers for less common punctuation: for example, Windows summons it with WindowsKey-.. Apologies.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    No worries. I tried to look on my English novels first but couldn't find anything like this. I was almost certain that I saw this in one of the Roald Dahls but nope. Well, learned the official name of it too, quotation dash. Thanks.

    By the way, Meta (Windows key) + . opens emoji list in KDE.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It doesn't look like a list to me, but a riddle.

    Would putting a Q: and A: in front of them satisfy you or would that send you off on a different tangent of chastising web users on their formatting?

    Maybe instead of people needing to apply exacting rules to accommodate an accessibility tech, the tech should get better at interpreting human tendencies of writing. Even today I can write in a non-structured natural language form and a decent chat bot can typically make a reasonable interpretation of it without help.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    It doesn’t look like a list to me

    Then the - weren't needed.

    Maybe instead of people needing to apply exacting rules to accommodate an accessibility tech

    1. Nah, writing a space the conventional way suffices: - SPACE list item. Even aesthetically, the plain text looks atrocious without a space there & worse when rendered.
    2. The technology is fine, there was even a button in the toolbar. It's not that hard to figure out to anyone trying: there's a preview button & they can edit.

    All anyone has to do is (1) follow regular convention or (2) use the technology. Getting this wrong despite the technology & standard convention is less a technology problem & more a user problem.

    Edit: I understand what you both meant now: quotation dashes. They're less common in English, but still correct! Edited my comment above to reflect this. Thanks.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    i need someone to convince me why it is wrong to steal from the British museum gift shop

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    Will you display for free all your stolen giftshop loot for everyone to see, and promise never to damage it, sell it or dispose of it in any way.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I'll showcase it to people I allow on my house, and say I take care of it, but what if I put then in ebay? who is going to stop me

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

    If you are comparing stealing from the giftshop to the museum's procurement process then you have to display your loot in an equal (free) manner to all members of the public, and refuse sell any items.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    Is it free to the public?

    People in Africa/asia, have to get a visa, and spend thousands (if they manage to be super cheap might only be a few hundred) of pounds to see their own historical artifacts, and keep in mind most of the artifacts are not in display, and it is the British curators who decide what is displayed, and what will likely end up in ebay.

    IE: my metaphor is correct

    but I'll tell everyone I'm more responsible than those brown/people and that's why I get to keep them

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    You don't have to pay for people's transport if they come to see your giftshop loot, but you do have to show it them for free.

    No. Selling on eBay is not allowed. In fact, once you have started your collection you are expected to pay for all future additions to your collection (although you may get donations).

    Your shoplifting metaphor ignored the curation, storage and display responsibilities. It also assumed resale which, in the British Museum's case, hasn't occurred.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I still get to control who gets in (visa)

    i see the problem, you're assuming I'm the British museum in the metaphor, but I'm more like the UK in the metaphor.

    And there are plenty of artifacts from the museum that ended up in ebay, but don't worry, the museum promised they will investigate themselves whenever it happens.

    Why is a foreign entity, gets to decide what to do with stolen artifacts?

    could I rob a bank, and when they catch me I can blame the bank for low security,.and not have to return anything because I will allow some people to come to my house and show them some bank stationary I also stole? while keeping the money for myself and do with it as I please. while pinky promising to not use the money I stole, but there's no oversight or consequences if I don't.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    I still get to control who gets in (visa)

    You don't control country visas. Neither does the British Museum.

    i see the problem, you're assuming I'm the British museum in the metaphor, but I'm more like the UK in the metaphor.

    Ah OK. Then I'm confused what the "UK giftshop" represents, and also what are you stealing from it.

    Why is a foreign entity, gets to decide what to do with stolen artifacts?

    A good, but different question. We are straying from the question of being morally able to steal from the British Museum giftshop.

    could I rob a bank, and when they catch me I can blame the bank for low security,.and not have to return anything because I will allow some people to come to my house and show them some bank stationary I also stole?

    The standard response is that you are a white hat bank robber, and you will return the bank assets once they beef up security. But the Greek bank has done this and still doesn't have it's assets back.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Half the issue is the British museum, and the other is the British government,

    but as a result, we have stolen artifacts being kept for selfish and racist reasons.

    like ,we got them, and you guys cannot be trusted with your own history.

    As long as the country in question aren't currently in a serious crisis, artifacts should be returned.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I broadly agree. For example, the elgin marbles should be returned (after multiple copies have been made). The British Museum will never truly "own" their artifacts. The Rosetta Stone will never be British.

    But remember, I was answering about stealing from the giftshop. You would never own or be able to sell anything stolen from it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    about that,

    was referring to this:

    Item Stolen From British Museum Worth $63K Listed on eBay for $51 https://share.google/Bihwd2rnwaGTk5JFs

    just stating that they aren't as responsible as they claim, and their items ended up in eBay.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Marion, this is a movie made in the 1980s and set in the 1930s, what the hell are you even talking about?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    That attitude gets retconed in the great circle.

    where he explicitly says that it belongs in a museum and helps locals get their relics to keep safe in their museums. ie, it belongs in their museums.

    good game overall

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago*

    scandalized stare

    edit *innocent stare I meant

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  • Why are there pyramids in egypt?

    Because they were too big for the british museum.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    better a museum than on a shelf in someone's living room (no I won't be donating it)

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (21 children)

    What's the opinion on certain high risk countries where there's a high likelihood of the artifacts simply being destroyed? If I remember correctly ISIS and other similar organizations have burned or bombed several historical sites before.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Museums should participate in cultural exchange, if a museum feels under threat then they have channels they can trust to protect their artifacts until they can be returned

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    if a museum feels under threat

    If you run a museum in Afghanistan and are afraid that the Taliban is going to execute you unless you destroy some blasphemous statue, are you going to risk your life to send the artifact to the British Museum, or are you just going to destroy it? Yeah, some heroes will definitely risk their lives, but most won't.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The alternative isn't "nothing", it's getting precious cultural artifacts out of high risk countries where there's a high likelihood of the artifacts simply being destroyed.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    The only opinion that should matter is that of the people the artifacts belong to.

    “It’s safer with us” is an excuse that’s been abused by colonizers and raiders for too long.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The only opinion that should matter is that of the people the artifacts belong to.

    Which people? The government? So in Afghanistan it's up to the Taliban? If you don't trust that the government of a country represents the will of the people, then how do you determine what the people want?

    And, again, which people? Is a totem pole in a museum in Canada the property of the Canadian people? Or is it something that belongs to the Haida people, and it doesn't matter what other Canadians want? If it is up to the Haida, it is up to the Council of the Haida Nation, or is it up to the band the original artist belonged to?

    What about a Tatar artifact found in Donetsk? Who gets control over that? Is it the Russians since they occupy Donetsk? The Ukrainians because they used to occupy it? Do you have to study the blood of various Ukrainian people to figure out who has the most surviving Tatar DNA?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    If you don't trust that the government of a country represents the will of the people, then how do you determine what the people want?

    You mean most governments?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What if some of the locals want it taken away for protection, but the government wants it destroyed?

    There's no clear 'owner' in many cases. I think it places where it's uncertain, then we should prioritize saving the artifacts over the ones that seek to destroy them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    You will never be able to get everyone to agree on anything and you can't hold a referendum for every artifact.

    So as far as responsibility goes, barring edge cases, it should be left upto the government to decide, as they represent the people.

    And tbh, this feels like an argument made in bad faith, because this is such a rare case. No government is going to ask for an artifact back and then destroy it. What happened in afganistan and Syria was a tragedy (they didn't ask for those artifacts back, they were already there) But that only happened because the previous governments had been destabilized by Russian and American influences. (Iraq war - Isis, Afganistan war - alqaeda)

    There's no clear 'owner' in many cases.

    Just return it to the country where it was taken from. And I don't think there are many cases where ownership is vague, most are pretty plain and clear.

    then we should prioritize saving the artifacts over the ones that seek to destroy them.

    That's not on you, that's on their original keepers. Otherwise you are propagating colonial era crimes and justifying them by arguing in bad faith.

    P.s.

    • Museums have a notorious record when it comes to maintaining artifacts (they aren't shining beacons of humanity), especially the British museum.
    • They also do less than what's needed to discourage artifact smuggling.
    • watch: https://youtu.be/eJPLiT1kCSM
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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    We have to be extremely wary of people who cite that because it's so easily used as a justification for artifact theft and can have deep roots in racism.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Adults have the right to make their own mistakes?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Gotta love how the first movie opens with him stealing an idol from an uncontacted Peruvian tribe, and the heroic music swells as he narrowly escapes with spears flying around them.

    Granted, this takes place in 1936 and his actions were the norm for the period, but despite coming out in 1981 the movie plays this scene out rather uncritically.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    He narrowly escapes with his life after having the idol stolen from him by his rival, Belloq, who works for the Nazis and actually hired that Peruvian tribe to be his little private army. Belloq then orders the Peruvians to attack Jones and he barely escapes on his hired plane.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Where do you get that he hired them?

    The opening scene is them discussing that the tribe would kill them just for being in the area, and then Belloq taunts Jones saying he can’t warn them that he’s scamming them because Jones doesn’t speak Hovitos. No where does it say he hired them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Scamming them is even worse, no?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    He didn’t know Belloq was there until after he had robbed them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    So the entire point of my original comment was to give Indiana Jones a bit of vindication from the thinly veiled slander that he was nothing more than a tomb robber working for the colonialist west. How does your correction that Belloq was scamming the Hovitos, not paying them, make any difference to Jones’s character?

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  • It doesn’t. You said Belloq hired them to be his personal army, which paints the Hovitos as complicit in working against their own self-interests. As in, they were the betrayers of their own people and were selling out to Belloq for some cash.

    But no, the reality is both Jones and Belloq were out to screw them: Jones by directly robbing them, and Belloq by first scamming them and then robbing them. Both were being imperialist and the Hovitos were the victims.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Temple of Doom had way more questionable scenes in it with the banquet, the heroic British soldiers at the end and... Short Round. Did they really have to name him that?

    Although the cultists were based on a real group and I actually saw something that looked like the heart thing in an Indian movie, so maybe that's based on something real as well.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I doubt it.

    There are 1.4 billion people. I think there'd be a stereotype about them doing black magic if it was an ever prevalent thing.

    To be fair to the movie, it isn't trying to say all Indians worship dark gods. It's just depicting a cult that happens to be in India.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    When I said "something real", I just meant a preexisting idea in India. The movie was Baahubali. There was a scene where the villain was trying to reach his hand into the hero's chest in exactly the same was as the cult leader in Temple of Doom.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The heart thing is not unique to India?

    It's a very common thing to take the heart out by villians everywhere.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    More that the hand was open and the figures being pressed directly into the skin, as if he was going to grab the heard directly without cutting it open first. It's not something you see often as there's the sternum in the way. I don't know if there's some Indian myth it's based off of or maybe some other piece of Indian cinema. It was a very specific scene, but it's 5 hours to go though, so I'm not going to be able it quickly.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, but if the tribe made those traps that still work perfectly after hundreds of years, imagine how advanced they must be by now. Dr Jones was probably within miles of a hidden techno utopia and never had a clue.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It should belong to the country of origin, but it could also be shared and tour around museums across the globe so an even greater number of people can check it out. They do this with art pieces. Why not cultural artifacts, too? Is not everyone entitled to learning about anything, including someone else's culture?

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    I would assume there would be arguments around transporting them increasing the chances of it breaking. It would really only make sense to move these back to their country of origin and have them remain there to minimize potential points of failure. The rarer the artifact itself (another rusted out sword or plain clay cup versus a one of a kind manuscript whose pages have become incredibly delicate) the less their respective owners are going to want it to be moved.

    Instead, we should be allowing more people the ability to travel and take time to go explore other cultures in their country of origin instead of trying to transport priceless artifacts across the globe.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Fun fact: Many cultural artificats do go on tour!

    For example I've seen both Pompeii & King Tutt exhibits in San Diego that have since rotated. I've also seen other traveling exhibits in several other major cities I've lived in that were far more than art.

    Many cities also have free admission days to museums for people that live nearby (depends on the institution but it could be for City/County/State).

    With this knowledge, you too, can now learn and explore societies that predate written word.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    The museum could pay rent per item to the country the artifacts originate from? Bad idea?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Britannia Jones and the stolen museum artifacts.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Laughs in British

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    Gonna play a game of comment roulette. How far do I have to scroll before I see someone say something like, "That can't be in their museum because they can't be trusted with it".

    Spinning the chamber now.

    Edit: turns out I wasn't prepared for what I saw. Now I sad.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    on the other hand how often things go missing in the British museum?

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    There are occasions when it's useful.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_heritage_by_the_Islamic_State

    I'm not saying it always is but there are a lot of very unstable places run by people who just don't care about this stuff. And at the time it was stolen it was either the British museum, someone's private collection, or the Vatican.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Karen Allen, the perfect example of aging naturally and radiating beauty.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Petite brunette women with green eyes have always been my thing. I realised recently that is entirely due to Karen Allen.

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  • Well I'm British so... fuuuck that!

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago
    [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Forgot the zoom on the bottom panels.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    They're too poor to have museums so by default yoink

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago
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