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[–] 61 points 1 month ago (1 child)

The model was broken by publishers, not consumers. Releasing early access without an actual roadmap or intention to ever release fully has become was too normal. So of course early access has lost its meaning

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  • [–] 56 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I am fine with early access as long as the price is reflective of 'the game it is' instead of 'the game it could be'.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    The problem them is all the people that complain and review bomb when the price goes up for 1.0.

    The reality is gamers complain too fucking much about every and anything.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago

    It lost its meaning long ago when early access did not have buyer protection after a length of time that gave the option for refunds, so more people treated them as games to be viewed as regular releases you buy if you are happy with its current state.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago

    People just buy an early access game like they buy a normal game and treat it like that’s the game.

    Yeah, because devs release an early access game then treat it like that's the game.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago

    Its partly why for our indie title hermertia wars we are making playtests free and ubiquitous on our steam page instead of launching as early access ;)

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago

    At least those games are marked as Early Access. I personally do not treat Early Access games as normal and in most cases wait until they get a version 1.0 release. This is much better than a fake v1.0 release of AAA games.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    One of my favourite games is also experiencing this right now. It was released in early access and people were complaining on day one about there being not enough content and some are still complaining after only the second update. Like, come the fuck on.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago*

    So many people buying into early access titles do not realize how many games never get released regardless how much work was already put into them, and because of a lot more reasons than "we ran out of money". Personal health of the main dev, disagreements within a dev team, financial issues, Real Live(TM) happening, hardware failure and data loss and so on can all stop a project before it can get a 1.0 release. Before early access, these titles simply never appeared on the market, preventing people getting burnt.

    I think early access has helped to bring more projects to a final 1.0, but financing is just one part of the equation, and many gamers do not realize that. I only buy EA titles that are very obviously passion projects that have had regular and meaningful updates for a while and have a realistic roadmap that doesn't suffer from feature creep. Everything else i am interested in, i simply wait - better to pay 10 bucks more for a finished project than 10 bucks less for something that never will get finished.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    I don't fuck with early access products that aren't free. I'm not paying for something that's unfinished.

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  • [+] 15 points 1 month ago (8 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (7 children)
  • [+] 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    No, free open betas are free. Open beta just means it's not an invite beta.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    Ironic considering Palworld spent quite a while in EA and still came out of it as a buggy poorly optimized mess.

    Don't get me wrong, the gameplay is fun, but it is not smooth. One week in they killed all custom resolutions because a little bit of Japanese text would crash the game FFS.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Honestly I've never understood the early access program except as a cash grab.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    It's intended as an open collaborative system. Small developers get an early injection of cash to fund further development. They can also get continuous feedback, from the community, as they develop. For smaller companies, this can be critical to help keep them on the path that makes the game better.

    In turn, the community gets to have a say in how the game is shaped. They also get to play it early and watch it grow. It's often also cheaper to buy early.

    When used right, it's awesome. Unfortunately it gets abused a bit right now. Bigger companies using it as a bug fixing tool is problematic, particularly when priced at full price. Also some (intentionally or not) do a "take the money and run".

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    7 Days to die, valheim, and satisfactory are examples of early access done right.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Palworld dev doesn't understand Early Access, blames the consumer. I haven't bought palworld, nor plan to, unless pocket pair fixes their other game which has been stuck in Early Access for years and still is a buggy unfinished mess, Craftopia. Consumers have come to understand that they can't rely on developers to fulfill the vision they are selling with their EA game, all they can do is trust the game that is out now.

    I, for one, love early access games. There is exactly a single game I bought in EA that had its vision canned, Wizard with a Gun, and that had to do with publisher problems. I see EA as a way to get involved with the game development, and to fund games that I actually like and enjoy. So far, even games that have been stuck in EA forever are highlights in my gaming library (looking at you Exanima and Zomboid). But I'm usually okay with replaying games every few years to see what's up and different. I know that is not for everyone, but I'd still say to give it a shot if you have the time, you might surprise yourself. But don't focus on the end, focus on the present of the game, engage with it, yes, but don't bother being a completionist. Just have fun.

    Some Personal Anecdotes about Early Access:

    My first foray into Early Access was with Exanima, bought it in early 2020 during the Covid era. It has been in development since 2013, it's a crazy complex project, but the game that was out in 2020 was already something you could easily play for 100+ hours. That's a full game with bonus game coming for it. I've recently replayed the game, and it's in a much more polished state, probably coming out with 1.0 in the next 1~2 years. I super recommend it to anyone who likes dungeon crawls/souls lite games, it might seem crazy to have a game be 10+ years in development, but the devs are indeed cooking, and it's fairly cheap on steam. The best part of Early Access for me is getting involved with the community (not in excess though...), talking to people about the game in its current state, discussing strategies, opinions, ideas, ways to improve the game, and leaving feedback that I know might be listened to, instead of just glanced at.

    Then I started playing Valheim in 2021 with a friend, and it was a blast. My first playthrough took around 180h before we finally defeated the 5th and final boss, Yagluth, at the time. I still vividly remember my first encounter with a deathsquito, it killed me instantly as I was trying to read its name, and my buddy had to run for his life. In 2024 I hopped back in with another friend after the Ashlands update, and we literally spent the entire year of 2024 playing the game, rocking a total of 260h over many many weekends before defeating the Ashlands boss. I sit now at 440h played with that game, all in Early Access. And I'll selfhost a new server in my homelab starting this friday, we'll invite as many friends as we can, and try to conquer the entire game again. I'm super excited for it.

    As a final anecdote, let's talk about V-Rising. I had been invited to playtest the game in 2022 I think, or late 2021. I loved it, it was simply amazing. Early Access came out, I bought the game and convinced many a friend of mine to buy and play with me. We played that game as a group every year, for three years in a row until 1.0 came out. It's, in my opinion, the best ARPG with a top-down camera in the market. Combat is crispy, bosses are great, pvp is ridiculously fun (I prefer it to PoE2). And it was incredible to see the game get more and more polished over the years. Bosses would get shuffled around in level and rewards, new bosses would be added, new areas, new weapons/items... Every year that we replayed, the game was still fresh, challenging and growing. I still plan to spin a new server maybe next year so that we can go for a final run of that game at our own pace before a V-Rising 2 comes out (which has sort of been announced already, not sure if that'll be the name though).

    In conclusion: early access can be extremely fun, if you're interested in getting involved with the game's development, leave feedback, come back in a year or two, and enjoy the journey more than the destination.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Seconding Zomboid and also throwing Stationeers onto the pile. Both of these games have been in Early Access for years, much longer than most games take to make. But these two are not your average games. We're talking thousands of hours of playtime between them. More depth than you can shake a stick at, in both games.

    Zomboid is the most detailed and realistic Zombie Apocalypse game you've ever seen. Keep your survivor character fed, clothed, warm and happy. Build thousands of objects in your base including barracades for doors and windows, entire walls. You can go in the woods and chop down trees and make your own house from scratch. And then there's the zombies! Crazy good game.

    Stationeers is kind of a mix between base building in Space Engineers and Dwarf Fortress. It's gonna make you wish you had a chemistry degree. Atmospherics are extremely detailed. Your character also has the usual needs like food and water but also they recently introduced the need to have a bathroom. No longer does your video game character inhale huge quantities of food and drink that just disappears into a void. Now you get polluted water! Oh, not that glamorous I guess.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (6 children)

    Windrose seems to be one of the latest scams. They haven't updated their game in months, and it's just the very first release.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Windrose seems to be one of the latest scams. They haven’t updated their game in months, and it’s just the very first release.

    According to SteamDB: https://steamdb.info/app/3041230/patchnotes/

    No additional account required, no Denuvo, no additional launcher, price is 30 Euros. People generally seem to like it. I fail to understand how this is seen as a scam.

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  • [+] -12 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    ╮(︶▽︶)╭ stop hosting in Steam

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Bro I aint coming to another market for your game, you come to the consumer lmao

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  • 33 comments in c/games@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 29 points 1 month ago

    I tend to forget tehy exist, then see someone say "There's a 1.0 release!" like just popped up for Valheim.

    I mean I did the same with PalWorld, though...

    The pathing was so atrocious I gave up and didn;t bother trying again until the 1.0 release.

    But I bought that more to say "Fuck You!" to Nintendo than for itself :P

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  • [–] 64 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    The biggest issue I have is with devs releasing games for full price in early access then to never finish it (like ksp2) or just spam it with new content instead of fixing bugs (like Ark). In most cases it's not the player base treating it like it's a finished game, it's the devs selling it as a nearly finished game (while it's not even at a playtesting state) then to move on onto a new project as soon as sales drop leaving it unfinished, scamming the players.

    Steam early access became an excuse to release unfinished junk. The sport for devs is to create content which is a bit over 2 hours, so it's past the refund period. Think of long loading screens, unskippable intro videos and conversations, long waiting time for connecting to servers etc, extremily long unskippable instructions during the mandatory tutorial, so the actual crappy gameplay won't be seen within the first 2 hours.

    There are also devs that do try and mean well, they usually sell the game at a discount in early access to compensate the player base for bug testing for them (like ksp1).

    Sadly the majority are just scammers.

    How does Steam even allow paid DLC content for an early access game... Wtf.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Yeah, IMO they should either be priced cheaply because anyone who buys is essentially testing the game. Then it's an ok gamble IMO, cheap game that might never get better and could be full of bugs.

    Or they should be priced higher to attract people who specifically want to support the idea and avoid review boms from people who expect a full game even though it says "early access". But this model then puts a requirement for communication and transparency with those who did support it, as well as a commitment to release what they did produce as open source if they end up abandoning the project.

    Though I think there should be some buyer beware involved. Read reviews before you buy, especially negative ones, and look for trends (to avoid being overly influenced by one reviewer's bias). It's impossible to predict which will continue being developed and which will fail (and out of those that fail, which ones intended it from the start and which ones were trying to make a great game in good faith but it just didn't work out), so buy early access games for what they currently are rather than what you hope they'll be. Even if they do get finished, that final product might not be what you're hoping for.

    Other than banning the account after it happens, I can't really see any way to punish the bad faith actors without catching people with low resources just trying to make a game despite the system being stacked against them.

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  • [–] 91 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    People just buy an early access game like they buy a normal game and treat it like that's the game."

    As they should tbh

    They shouldn't buy it based on future expectations that may never arrive

    They should buy and okay it for what it is.

    If it gets even better. Great. If not, they know what they paid for going in.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I see a lot of games that should be "early access" that instead opt for a less functional "full" release.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Iirc that's good as it allows for a full refund at release

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Yeah, i guess successful people tend to be out of touch. People don't buy EA simply for the promise, people buy EA because of what they're able to play now and the potential it has, the current behaviour is basically people done getting scammed by dev that abandoned game, and there's shit tons of EA games being abandoned. Pocketpair also ditch Craftopia in favour of Palworld, and now only decided to finish it. If Palworld doesn't give them fuck you money you bet they will also ditch Craftopia and Palworld and move on to newer and shinier project.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago

    It feels like it's a license to disappoint customers with how some studios use it.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I can't believe Valheim just left EA. It's literally been over 5 years!

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I find that playing early access as a normal game, for some genres, is.. idk, good? Better?

    Like games like timberborn and whiskerwood and other base-building or colony-building games that I obsess over. Getting to try those in their early stages is awesome because people start modding them early just for a change of pace over what they already play. Then a lot of those mods end up being features in the game, which sort of makes the whole thing a group project, which is genuinely awesome. Probably also helps push them to 1.0.

    If you happen to be a sort who likes mods, and like those sort of games, getting into them early can be a decent opportunity to influence the development path of the game, even if its only in a small way. And if you aren't a modder, its low-key fun to watch how new features get added to the game as new versions come out.

    As long as they are playable enough to mod, everything else can (and probably will) be added by the player base, even if the project gets abandoned, but that requires people playing them as if they were done - why would you mod a game you wouldn't want to play for hundreds of hours?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Slay the Spire 2 is like this also.

    Honestly it feels like a full game already, with some things just unlocking on a real-time unlock timer (some of the flavor text art assets aren't done yet, but the placeholders are charming, and new ones are added all the time).

    I don't think it would be as fun as a finished product, where the balance didn't change every few weeks, and you have to relearn what cards do and what enemies are like.

    P.S., RIP Doormaster Boss! You were too cool for this world

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Yeah! I’d much rather be part of early access rebalancing than come across it on live full paid servers, too.

    WoW, in the years following the first expansion, was constantly rebalancing stuff because all the new content was… well.. not properly balanced at all. I stopped playing two expansions in when it got to be just constant clownshow shit with every patch, but if that was all happening as part of a beta? Fuck absolutely sign me up for the constant nerfs.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago

    And tons of people said exactly that would happen the day it was announced.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    Early Access makes them money so it's now a way to make money even before your game is done. Originally it was to help infuse cash to finish the title without needing investors.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago

    I think "early access" is more informative to non-techy people than "beta" is. Though an even more informative term would be "unfinished."

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  • [–] [S] 16 points 1 month ago

    Personally I treat early access like kickstarters at this point, I just avoid them by and large because of the rampant issues with delivery.

    Unless the policy changes for early access and allow me to request a full refund if the game is abandoned and allow for something like a week of evaluation after 1.0 to determine if crap was released, I doubt I would buy most early access games at this point.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    It depends how you use it.

    If you put out a game that works but hasn't got all its art assets yet then it looks like you're basically just releasing the game early.

    If you put out a game which only has its first two levels and upon completion of level 2 it has some text that says "more to come" people understand that's an early access.

    But there's way too many of the first example and not enough of the second example. None of this is helped by games like No Man's Sky, Cyberpunk 2077 and Starfield that released in buggy states, making people think that early access just means broken.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Honest advertising can fix the perception problem. Just outright tell people that it has crashes and/or other bugs and misses content right from the start. Provide a playable demo of the current state. Or relax the refund period to GOG's 30 days-no-questions-asked.

    Early Access is great for games which are already fun to play but unfinished. For that the game needs to be in alpha or beta.
    Funding the alpha is what Kickstarter is for.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    What does “early access” provide?

    What are its shortcomings?

    How should it be fixed?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    It usually means the game is cheaper than the release price. So it's like getting it on sale. And you can play it while it's still undergoing changes and testing. That's all I know

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    Early access means getting access to the game prior to its 1.0 release. It also usually means you can provide feedback to the dev(s) and help shape the game's development. EA games can also be priced less than their 1.0 launch price.

    Shortcomings of the system are mainly that there's no guarantee the game will be finished or the dev may just slap 1.0 on it and call it done, despite it being in an unfinished state.

    I don't know if there's a way to "fix" the system and I think it works well for the most part. I think people need to not buy into hype so quickly and also be aware that they're buying an unfinished product that has no guarantee of actually being completed.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I currently have 5 early access games in my library and I'm happy with all:

    1. Genokids
    2. Spirit X Strike
    3. Counterclocking
    4. Kings of Hell
    5. Dead as Disco

    All 5 were a "proof of concept" when they started and are building on top of it. I bought these games understanding they may take years to get to 1.0, but I also was conscious of the 2-hour refund window when I bought them and decided they offered me enough to keep them and look forward to their full release.

    I also looked up everything I could about their developers and publishers and how they communicate with the community just to be safe.

    It's not an ideal scenario for either: the developer, provided they're honest, or the player; however, extreme conditions demand extreme responses. Not many developers make this kind of action game any longer, so if the player needs to shoulder some of the risk, that's only fair.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    I am very happy with having bought Paralives when it debuted in Early Access. I had followed their work online ever since the first videos the creator posted back around eight years ago and the team seems really dedicated on making a good game.

    Virtual dollhouse-style life simulators are full of moving parts and I understand that there’s still a lot to grow from what’s currently on the game (even more so considering the size of the dev team), and with the frequent game updates they’ve been shipping I can’t wait to see where they take it.

    (them wresting the life sim monopoly from EA’s hands is a nice bonus.)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I've treated many games in early access like normal games and had lots of fun - which I would call successful purchases. To me EA means that not all content is there, the game is unfinished but playable. It works better for some games than others:

    Timberborn in EA was playable completely and since its a sandbox, hard to notice missing content. Similar with Factorio, Valheim and Rust (I actually miss EA Rust a bit).

    Hades, Baldur's Gate 3 were story heavy games so they did rely on being complete. Maybe a little less so for Hades. They were good experiences, but I kept playing them at a minimum and waited for full release.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Early Access, Beta, 1.0 release... It's all just a stay of mind to me.

    Now-a-days software is either being actively developed; Or it's sunsetted and ends up in the hands of retro enthusiasts.

    No reality is not so black and white and there are exceptions. Yadda yadda yadda...

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Early access is like a Gachapon. You may get something you like, you might get trash. The trash might become great years later or on the contrast you might hate what you liked beforehand with final-ish changes. It's a gamble, even triple A companies do this. Games like Fallout 4 or WoW changed the game to prepare for their new games or dlc that's to be released.

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    [–] 27 points 1 month ago

    Maybe use a roadmap with dates? I know it's hard to pinpoint a date but if you had a road map with the estimated quarter... And if you communicated why you had to push it to later... I understand communication is a dual edged sword but that's what it's for!

    So many EA titles go radio silent with no road map. Then we wonder whats happening after six+ months of silence.

    Runescape Dragonwilds is a prime example of how to do EA. Roadmap, expected dates, and reasons why a certain feature didn't get pushed out on the said date.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    The article references it but this is a hilarious thing for the company making Craftopia to say.

    SIX YEARS of early access and it's nowhere near complete. They fucked off to make Palworld which is understandable but...maybe they shouldn't be the mouthpiece for this complaint?

    I agree with them but the irony is just too much.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    seriously, palworld seems to have implemented most of craftopias shit from a glance.. refund people for craftopia, cancel it, and give them a discount on palworld.

    early access is bullshit, and is mostly either used for games that are finished but don't want to be held accountable, or for games that'll never finish and be abandoned once the devs got enough money.

    Steam needs to put a hard limit of like.. you can be in early access for 2 years, and if your game is not finished and released in that time, its automatic refunds for all customers.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (5 children)

    Automatic refunds!? Now that is would lead to some serious grind to avoid. Think about it, finish the game or go bankrupt. 24/7/365 development baby!

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    If your game isnt in a state where it can be finished in 2 years (and i'm being very fucking generous with that 2 year window), then it doesnt fucking belong on early access.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    I agree completely with your sentiment. You know that a developer can just arbitrarily declare their game "complete" just as easy as "early access" though right?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    yeah, and thats an excellent way to get mass refunded to oblivion. because I doubt steam is going to deny refunds for a game that defrauds the early access system.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Well then you're relying on the user who has played a game for a hundred hours, to be honest. From what I've sern, most people who put in a large amount of ea time, do not stick around long into the release if at all. I imagine most of them would just refund the game whether it is truly complete or not.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I also think the name "Early Access" is misleading. You're really paying to become a beta/alpha tester which also includes a license to the full release when/if that happens. If that is what you want, then that's fine, and the product page always details the current state and plans, but I still think it's a tiny bit problematic.

    Personally I ignore most Early Access games altogether and only buy if the price clearly makes sense for what the game offers at that moment and that seems pretty rare.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    I hate that so many are trying to normalize the "release" date with the Early Access. Like no, your game being in beta testing is not "released". CohhCarnage is doing it with his game he's a part of, using the word "release" when he's talking about "Early Access". You opened up early access. Your game releases later.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    Maybe it's the price the problem? It's 29€, at that price tag i expect a full game to be honest...

    (To be noted: i never played palworld)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Early Access is a place for games that are in a playable alpha or beta state, are worth the current value of the playable build, and that you plan to continue to develop for release.

    I guess if people are expecting too much then your EA game's price is too high.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Early access for pay, should die. Release a game or don't. If you need play testing, your game has to be free for that time

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