Is there a reason why the necklace has to be made from parakeet bones?
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Is this from one of those games like Stardew Valley? Never played that one but my friend did. Reminds me of Link's Awakening too.
Read Graeber's Debt
This is what society should be
Barter economy sucks when you actually need stuff, and was pretty much only practiced by long-distance merchants who had no reason to trust one another.
For anything close to necessary in a society, mutual aid is much better, and has a much stronger basis in the historical record. No reason to dedicate half your house to random garbage when you can just have people know you help people when you can and so you deserve to be helped in turn.
And before anyone mentions it, "The tragedy of the commons" is something that very notably didn't happen to actual historical commons. What few selfish people there are were given their own personal incentive structure, while anyone with a lick of sense took freely and gave freely.
It required capitalism making those selfish people legally correct and backed up by state violence for the commons to die out.
No reason to dedicate half your house to random garbage when you can just have people know you help people when you can and so you deserve to be helped in turn
I mean, at what point does it stop being "dedicating half your house to random garbage" and start being a reclaimed material repository?
It is this, but instead of everyone needing to pay for stuff storage, we took the value of the stuff and trade to a portable, simple intermediary called money. There's a reason why money was developed practically everywhere with more than the most rudimentary economy.
Can I interest you in some self sealing stem bolts?
What is raw honey? Is it just honey? I'm not american.
Commercial honey is often pasteurized and filtered to avoid crystallization, be smoother and be pollen free. While it can effect the shelf life raw honey isn't enormously dangerous (or illegal anywhere as far as I'm aware) like raw milk but should still be avoided by infants and immunocompromised people. I am also not american.
Isn’t eating local honey supposed to help with allergies because it contains local pollens? So it like builds an immunity or something?
Honey can contain botulism, which is why you need to avoid it with babies and those with weak immune systems.
Would stirring it up real good help with that? Like to aerate it. I don't think bubbles would move around very freely but mixing it for a while should eventually expose it all to air.
Edit: no, it does not, the lack of oxygen is only relevant to the production of the toxin, not the stability of it as I incorrectly believed until the following conversation happened.
Did this guy just think that air bubbles can remove botulism?
To elaborate a bit, apparently Clostridium botulinum bacteria produce spores, which are very resistant and don't give much of a fuck about anything — e.g. boiling at 100°C. That's why preserved foods are boiled at pressure with higher temps, and pickled with acid and salt to kill the emerging bacteria. Toxin itself can theoretically be destroyed by prolonged boiling, but it's highly potent in very small quantities, so it's always recommended to just toss spoiled canned foods.
Bacteria themselves don't live in honey because of its high sugar content, but if it has spores, those would turn into bacteria in ones' intestines, and children's immune system is not equipped to deal with that.
Oh I thought they meant it contained the toxin rather than the bacteria (or spores).
Though I also thought the bacteria was one of the ones that was around us all the time and it's just anaerobic conditions like in an unsterilized sealed can that make it dangerous.
Toxin is produced by the bacteria in canned foods (typically indicated by swelling from the gases that the bacteria also emit). The toxin can't be easily destroyed, and definitely not with enough certainty that it won't paralyze you.
The botulinum toxin is the most potent toxin known in scientific literature, natural or synthetic, with a lethal dose of 1.3–2.1 ng/kg in humans.
That's 1.3 nanograms, i.e. 0.0000000013 grams. Firstly, your aeration would do absolutely nothing to the toxin, secondly even if it did, consider if you're sure enough that you didn't miss ~0.00000013 grams of it in there.
I also thought the bacteria was one of the ones that was around us all the time
That's true:
C. botulinum is a soil bacterium. The spores can survive in most environments and are very hard to kill. This bacteria is widely distributed in nature and can be assumed to be present on all food surfaces.
Idk how exactly anaerobic bacteria live and multiply, but at least when spores are dumped into a healthy adult stomach, the acid kills the bacteria. As evidenced by lots of people eating honey all the time.
The way I understand it is the bacteria itself isn't anaerobic (or rather, oxygen isn't toxic to it but it doesn't need it) but the toxin reacts with oxygen. Canned foods lack 02, so a contamination means the toxin builds up over time instead of breaking down quickly, which is how it is so widespread without constantly killing people. That's where the idea that aerating it could reduce the amount of toxin (if it was the toxin rather than the spores that was an issue).
Though I'm still confused about why honey in particular is considered dangerous for babies and immune compromised when they (the babies) are constantly sticking random objects in their mouths that likely have the bacteria and spores on them.
It's certifiedly anaerobic bacteria:
C. botulinum is an obligate anaerobe, requiring an environment that lacks oxygen. However, C. botulinum tolerates traces of oxygen due to the enzyme superoxide dismutase, which is an important antioxidant defense in nearly all cells exposed to oxygen. C. botulinum is able to produce the neurotoxin only during sporulation, which can happen only in an anaerobic environment.
I've never once seen it said that the toxin is destroyed by exposure to oxygen, and can't find such a claim on Wikipedia. If getting rid of the toxin was as easy as stirring the crap out of food for a few hours, the universally prevailing advice wouldn't be to avoid food in swelled cans like your life depends on it (which it does).
Ok, good to know, thanks for the convo. Probably wouldn't have saved any lives, since I would have assumed the amount of stirring required to get rid of it all wouldn't be worth the effort if it did work like that, but my understanding is better now.
Btw, regarding
Canned foods lack 02, so a contamination means the toxin builds up over time instead of breaking down quickly, which is how it is so widespread without constantly killing people.
The go-to methods of preventing C. botulinum multiplying in canned foods is pressure-boiling the food at high temperature for a few minutes and adding acid (i.e. vinegar) and/or salt. The first one kills the spores, the latter two kill bacteria emerging from remaining spores. If this doesn't work too well, the bacteria multiply and start producing the toxin and the gases.
There are also the options of dehydrating the food with salt or smoking, or adding lots of sugar. But the former two are mostly done to meat, to my knowledge, and the latter one is just sweets or honey.
With "children" what's the actual age that is meant in this case?
I have no certain idea, being blissfully free of the obligation of childcare, so you better clarify that at some more scientifically inclined resource. But from what I've briefly seen on Wikipedia, it seems that switching to solid foods changes the acidity of the stomach environment, or at least the acidity is ready when switching can be done — and the acidity is what nukes bacteria trying to pop up from the spores.
Please tell me you don't think storing it will get rid of botulism.
Why would I think that? There's a whole conversation thread beside this where I go into more detail about what I thought and why. It was a misunderstanding about how the presence or thereof of oxygen played a role in the toxin's production (it does) and stability (I thought it did but it didn't).
That's unfortunately untrue. Raw honey contains too little pollen to have an effect, and what little is there is rapidly broken down in the stomach.
It's also the wrong type of pollen as the type collected by bees is from plants that utilize insects, not wind, for fertilization. It's heavy and stickier, so isn't airborne in substantial quantities, and thus not the type of pollens responsible for most seasonal allergies.
While it can effect the shelf life
Archaeologists have found 3,000-year-old pots of honey that are still edible.
In Finland honey is never pasteurized but also not recommendes for children under 1 year old
Is cristalised honey considered unproper for consumption? Honey doesn't go bad. That is the only food that is so. Cristalised honey is just that: honey that doesn't have the same texture as a more recent more.
Sounds better than sitting in a cubicle for the best hours of the day, and the best years of your life
Wonder how that conversation came up.
"I'm sad. My parakeet died today."
"Alright, fuck it, let's make a deal!"
Um, Ackshually... It would be for the Biggoron's Sword.
Giant's Knife is the 200 Ruppee scam from Medigoron.
Giants knife was pretty good even broken tho', that's what they don't want you to know
doubts
It had the same power as the Kokiri sword but with less reach
Was it that bad? I thought I remembered its power as being pretty decent but the reach being poor so you had to time/distance fairly well. Maybe depended on the version, I know I played an emulator port of it about 15 years ago, perhaps the stats were modified for that. No idea if my memory refers to emulator, og n64 version, or is purely fabricated.
At the end of this trade quest they will either end up with an alternate costume that people only wear because of the quest or the most powerful weapon ever conceved. We will just have to wait and see if the earth is destroyed by the stick of unlimited damage or someone walking around some weird dead parakeet suit that offers no protection.
Wow, what a quaint little folk-tale. I wonder how this will...
When did my life get this weird?
Oh.
Oh shit, someone should let this person know that a lot of these don't end well.
One Small Favor
I'm guessing that's what you're referencing.
There was a dude in the Lego community on Lugnet at the time that took the idea and did a similar thing trading up from a 1x1 red stud to a Technic bulldozer that was one of the most expensive sets at the time.
Nope, a quest in popular mmo Runescape. It makes the player fetch items which require other items repeatedly and then you work your way backwards, usually takes between 2 and 6 hours depending on what systems if transport the player has unlocked.
I would be proud to tell a story as awesome as this
Meanwhile I’m stuck with one of those old-timey jobs where you’re actually supposed to show up.
The Giant's knife was the garbage that was easy to acquire. You're thinking of the Biggoron's Sword, obviously
Yeah those things didn't happen
While I agree this is probably just a made up funny joke, if you you've ever actually lived in a gift/barter community, it's pretty much this. Hung out pretty much exclusively with anarchist and various left-communists for years, and this was my life. You do things for folks, they do things for you, and along the way you end up with stuff like a shit ton of honey, and you end up giving that honey out in exchange for something else, and you end up meeting someone with a weird skill, and it all just spirals into this weird and glorious community.
The difference is that in real life, you're not saying "I'll give you this honey for a bird corpse" you say "hey, man, can I have your bird corpse, I know a girl who loves macabre art, and it would be a really cool way to honor your beloved pet," and then you either give them honey as a thank you, or just later on when it comes up that they want some honey, you give them some because you happen to have some.
I once had a friend who straight up gave this guy his Prius, that same dude ended up giving a mutual friend a place to stay for over a year. Original Prius owner never got anything directly for the Prius, but he was within the little gift economy, and ended up receiving lots of things and services from various members over the years. I doubt he feels like he was not repaid for it.
It's a pretty great way to live. It's a shame we all could never work out a way to get land and built the cohousing community we dreamt of.
left-communists
Is there such a thing as right-communists?
Also I’m guessing your friend didn’t originally acquire the Prius by bringing honey to the Toyota dealership. That’s where this kind of thing breaks down.
It's not lol. The issue isn't that barter centric systems fall apart with complex products/services. The blame as always rest with mega corps, investors, and the most insatiably greedy cunts that we always hand power and leniency to.
Anarchist systems fall apart at scale. Because they rely on social reputation to keep people well behaved. And social reputation doesn't work if you want factories and electronics and other things that require the collaboration of tens of thousands of workers around the globe.
They would just overcharge for the oil change anyway and claim the $8 cabin air filter needs changing for $120.
Strasserists?
But yeah I think it was Lenin who wrote "Left Communism, an Infantile Disorder"
Left-communism refers to philosophies such an anarchism, council communism, platformism, and other left wing thoughts that do not advocate for an all encompassing and powerful worker's state, and instead believe in achieving a communist system (stateless, classless, moneyless) through means of democracy, consensus, councils, or other means that put the actual people impacted by a decision in charge, or at least in the conversation, of making the decision.
And of course not. Because we do not live in a society where that happens. The topic is not "does gift economy work" or "do we live in a gift economy." The topic was explaining a micro-economy that existed around mutual aid and gift economics.
This is what real economy looks like, not make-believe numbers passing from one AI company to the next.
An entire cello just for a bit of juggling seems a bit of a steep cost
But that's exactly where the incredible wealth of interwoven community comes from! The value of a thing isn't distillable to a hard number, and in trying to do so, we cheapen the wonderful and make the essential unaffordable. Add to that the value of the story that comes with everything you touch...idk. I get really excited about this stuff.
Could have been stolen from a school? When I was younger I used to live on military bases and you could get second hand instruments for basically nothing. It was pretty common for military families to just not return their instruments to whatever off-base school they were going to when they moved.
are they... bartering?
This is the weird seemingly unrelated side quests that get you the main quest for a super weapon. Ironically you've already got a better weapon.
When the fiscal economy is broken the bartering economy is there to take over.


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