Just blocked lemmy.ml from my Lemmy account, and I swear to god it's one of the best things I've ever done on this platform. My homepage feels actually clean now.

For the past few months I'd been seeing a lot of tankie posting and pretty much far-left propaganda on my feed. It got tiring enough that I finally checked my blocked-user list, and realized pretty much everyone I'd blocked was from lemmy.ml. So I just blocked the whole instance instead.

Saying this as someone who considers themselves a leftist: I used to think Lemmy itself was an echo chamber. Turns out lemmy.ml was the problem the entire time. Probably the reason I tolerated it for so long is that I agreed with a lot of what they posted, but like an oversaturated meme, I'd had enough. Browsing the platform was starting to feel way too tiring instead of fun, which defeats the point of being here in the first place.

The breaking point was seeing some dude post a "meme" implying North Korea and China are basically communist utopias and that the West sucks. I mean, the West does suck, but come on - you're saying North Korea is the ideal the West should strive for? What the hell...

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[–] 25 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (13 children)

Experimenting with blocklists is fine and how you find your comfort zone on Lemmy.

I once made an experiment in which I blocked lemmy.world - not out of spite, but to just see what the rest of Lemmy has to offer. Turns out, quite much!

Still, too many niche communities are hosted on .world, so here I am again.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    I tend to agree that the majority of communities are hosted on 3 major instance's its a concern that makes it difficult remove any of the 3 or 4 mega instances regardless of policies or practices.

    I see many saying just boycott or block .world but, a decent source of communities im in are listed there. I know it's against the spirit of fediverse but I don't see that changing any time soon.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    It's an inherent problem with having both users and communities on the same instances, and just how humans tend to operate in general in that we automatically gravitate to others and clump together.

    I think it was @rglullis@communick.news who was saying that in an ideal world there would be two types of instances, one for users and one that only served as hosting space for communities. That way you could block or defederate user groups without losing access to entire communities.

    Of course, we're way past the point where reorganization into a structure like that is feasible. But it's interesting to think about.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    Thank you! At least I don´t feel so alone now. :)

    we’re way past the point where reorganization into a structure like that is feasible

    I am still optimistic about it. It will be impossible to make one huge push in this direction, but slowly people will come to realize that this is the most sensible approach. For example, I've noticed that !nba@nba.space started to get more activity because !nba@lemmy.world is considering moving out of LW, but are spending a lot of time debating over a lateral move. If only they had accepted when I first invited them to join as mods from the topic-specific instance, this would've never been an issue.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    That is an interesting concept, I would argue that it wouldn't tackle the root cause of why most would want to federate due to rules just being universally applied to both the user instance and the community instance for the mega instances, and it still wouldn't do anything with it being against the spirit of the fediverse in terms of needing to spread or web out, but I agree it would be nice.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago* (8 children)

    Lemmy.world is clearly run by a bunch of incompetent, at least slightly bigoted, idiots and it really shows in the overall quality of the community that results.

    I think the most toxic thing about Lemmy.World is a pervasive belief that stricter rules and more automation will make everything better and they are just so painfully, blatantly wrong about it that it hurts.

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  • [+] -7 points 3 months ago* (7 children)

    cool. i disagree. in my 3 years on fedi it's been the most chill instance that is more hands off than many of the other ones.

    and the userbase is far less militant than other instances.

    piefed.social is fairly chill too

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    The developer for Piefed.Social's main front end app that they develop literally has censorship baked into the code with hardcoded instance blocks that are not obvious to the user or even a new instance creator who doesn't look to far into the details....

    So what are you saying is, your bubble is nice and you aren't willing to confront how or why the bubble looks as unchallenging to your belief systems as it does :)

    https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/72685299

    https://lemmy.pobierz.net/post/1293

    I discovered this after upgrading our instance yesterday, which also upgraded all frontends to their latest versions as well. After I did, our Tesseract frontend stopped working and I noticed immediately as it’s been my primary for a while. Initially I thought it was an API version mismatch, but no, it was much worse.

    Someone pointed out that the developer of the frontend added an explicit hidden and unmodifiably blacklist which includes any and all instances to the left of Kissinger. There’s a commit which also explains their specious reasoning about our instance specifically, as it seems we’ve been on their shit list for a bit longer than that.

    This instance and its admin staff encourages identity politics, groupthink, mob mentality, and extremist solutions to societal problems. Users who advocate violence are not moderated so long as the admins agree with the target. Caution and critical thinking are advised when interacting with this instance or its users.

    When you use tesseract to connect to one blacklisted such instance , you just get a message informing you that Tesseract is “incompatible with that instance” which leads one to think of a technical issue, like an API mismatch, rather than the dev being an opinionated coward.

    Isn’t it funny how all the software developed by turbolibs, like Piefed and Tesseract, end up with hidden control mechanisms from developers who think they know better than everyone else? That they don’t just think they deserve to tell you what you should think, but they should manipulate you to think it? Isn’t it funny how libs go on about how bad it is to support lemmy due to the ideology of the devs behind it, and yet lemmy has 0 opinions as a software? It does make one think…

    Anyway, I forked - it as one does - and disabled the blacklist, but since this is a massively ideologically compromised software, I’ll doubt I’ll keep this frontend up after Lemmy 1.0. I think we’ll bring up mlmym again now that someone’s maintaining it again.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    yeah. i also blocked db0 manually too. no idea what the other instance is. pretty sure i blocked db0 before it was a standard block on piefed.

    i have no interest in anarchists and their delusional worldviews and their fantasizing about violence and revolution.

    i don't have a belief system. but i notice pretty much everyone fedi loves to tell me about how wrong mine is and how i need to believe what they believe or I'm a terrible awful shitty human being.

    i also don't buy penis enlargement pills, or listen to fundamentalist Christians, or flat earthers and lots other things. those folks also 'challenge my belief system', but my belief is that they are deranged and obsessed with falsehoods.

    mormons come to by door a few times a year and want to educate about how christ will make my life meaningful and amazing, i also don't listen to them either. and i highly doubt you are letting them into your home to lecture you too.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    i don't have a belief system.

    facepalm I really hate being reminded constantly of how important a well rounded education with arts, language and critical thinking stressed as well as STEM concepts is...

    Yes, you most definitely have a belief system just as much as you most certainly have biases, it is part of being a human being.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    Oh yeah, what is my belief system them?

    according to posters on lemmy, I vote for trump, but i'm also far left, i'm a centrist lib, but also a far right socialist, etc.

    weird how that there is zero consistency in how others categorize me... perhaps because I don't have a rigid well-defined system of belief that they insist I must have. you have have beliefs about the world without them being systematic or unified under any particular ideology or political grouping.

    though i understand that for most fediverse users, this idea is inconceivable, because they live to define themselves and others by belief systems, and like you, then immediately go for insults about how stupid, dumb, and ignorant you are, if you don't agree with them about your own beliefs.

    because you know, just insult, mock, and harass anyone who doesn't agree with you. as you just done. because you are some superior being who is so well-educated and I am clearly an ignorant fool who should listen to you and your wisdom.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    No, don't listen to my opinions, disagree with them vehemently that is fine.

    What you need to stop doing is conflating having an inconsistent, unexamined belief system handed to you by the society around you and the cues you took from it with not having a belief system which is literally impossible as a sentient human trying to make sense of the world around them.

    I was kind of switching into a classist tone in my frustration and you are right to point it out, fair enough and genuinely that is a shitty thing to lean into I am sorry, I recognize education is extremely unequal and not knowing things is not a fair basis to judge people on... however please recognize that a lack of your awareness of parts of you does not mean those parts do not exist.

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  • [–] -5 points 3 months ago*

    yeah, i'm such a dummy with my master's degree which i had to spend two years writing a thesis on the topic of belief system formation.

    please tell me more about how awful I am though. and how hard it is to be you with your superior intellect and awareness of all things.

    and it's not at all that you're a yet another fragile egotistical fedi user who thinks they are a Supreme Genius, who tells other posters here how they lack 'awareness' for the crime of what... making you mad with words on computer screen you don't like?

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I just switch to my subscribed instances when I get tired of All.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Thats the correct answer. If too much stupid stuff gets past the block filters its handy just to switch to the subscribed tab.

    Of course this may not get rid of people posting tiring stuff on the subscribed instances, but block filters also seem to work for communities - honestly, thats what I mainly use as instance blocks seem too overboard. Overtly sexist or ageist instances get blocked tho.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I use Lemmy.world. I don’t see any of this drama, about cat food or leftists. I do see posts that used to be regular at Reddit, with decent discussion.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    It sure would be swell if people could, at the very least, elevate to a 2d view of politics. Hearing the majority of quadrants II, III, and IV all referred to all "far-left" is confusing at best.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    That's because adding a 2nd axis does almost nothing to mitigate how insanely reductionist political spectrums are. People are not that simple x1,000,000,000.

    Nothing wrong with building models with limitations but one cannot test the political compass to measure how reliable it is at predicting future results.

    As such I genuinely think the frustration you're experiencing is because the people who relate to it the most tend to view people over simplistically, usually because they can't empathize with any human experience that isn't theirs. Aka conservatives.

    Like me as a progressive can empathize with my conservative family that's never been exposed to trans people and only fed anti-trans bs. But flip the script and they cannot fathom why I don't go to church or vote conservative like a good christian. I know because they've told me.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    2nd axis does almost nothing

    In 1d about 2/3 of the political spectrum is being called the same thing. Elevating political discourse to where we are not calling tankies and social libertarians the same thing seems like more than "almost nothing" to me.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago*

    it's not even 2d, it's 1d. everyone who isn't me is bad and wrong. many folks here are are straight up solipsistic.

    and you aren't going to elevate anyone like that. they have to take their own head out of their own ass, which is possible, but more likely to be triggered by real life experiences and trauma than internet posts.

    of course that's also not necessary they will ever get better, they often get worse. i have had friends have a traumatic life experience an just shove their head further up their ass even more than it was before. especially during covid.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    I just moved to lemmy.zip from dbzer0 and before that, world, mainly because I want to be the one blocking, I don't want my instance to block for me. I must not be subscribed to the right places, because I just don't see a whole lot of CCP/RUS apologia? I'm pretty good at passing over shit I know I won't agree with though, so it might just not be registering.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Dotzip does have default blocks on new accounts iirc, you should check this if it's of importance to you.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Isn't that only PieFed.zip, but not Lemmy.zip that has the default instance blocks? I am fairly certain that this is the case, but even so could still be wrong:-).

    Tangentially, the transparency surrounding this issue is abysmal.

    Oh, it is also remotely possible that simply nobody on that instance has signed up to those communities yet - it requires at least one local subscriber to pull in new content.

    Another possibility is the admins having blocked the specific communities even if not the entire instance. There is no way to tell which these are, as the Lemmy devs decided to not expose that information to users (fwiw, neither does PieFed).

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  • [–] 60 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Don't be surprised if you find hexbear giving you similar twitches.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago

    My feeds pretty decent. I don't block instances outside of an accident. I block plenty of users and communities though and it works for me. Don't get me wrong the vast majority of my blocks is not that the communities are bad. just that its easier to block what your not interested in and peruse all than peruse subscribed if you want to find new things.

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  • Ive blocked dozens of instances because i dont like them. Just do it and move on -- no, nobody else was getting tired of lemmy because the rest of us block instances and users we dont like and enjoy our experience instead.

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  • [–] 28 points 3 months ago (30 children)

    Could someone give some examples of these leftist propaganda posts? I just browse all top day, maybe they get diluted enough for me to overlook these.. i've seen this argument pass by so many times.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (20 children)

    Try commenting that maybe, just maybe, Stalin wasn't the greatest benefactor of humanity, ever.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Trotsky would have been no better than Stalin.

    Then watch the fireworks.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago

    I think it's a pretty common take that Trotsky's idea of Permanent Revolution would have been suicidal for the fledgling socialist state, so yea, I think running the Soviet Union directly into a broader, protracted war and losing the entire Soviet Union would have been worse than Stalin.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago*

    YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HE HAD TO MURDER MILLIONS SO THAT 10s OF MILLIONS COULD BE MISERABLE AND LIVE IN A CORRUPT OLIGARCHY REGIME, WHERE THE QUALITY OF LIFE WAS DECADES BEHIND THE WEST.

    and don't forget how glorious and prefect and FREE life is in China and North Korea.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    Want to really piss people off?

    "Over the last 50 years, regulated market economies have produced more wealth, pulled more people out of poverty, and resulted in less war than any other economic system in any period of history."

    In other words, the status quo of the last 50 years that everyone blames everything on, was in fact an exceptionally GOOD period of human history.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    The biggest problem is that this heavily relies on calling a socialist market economy like China a "regulated market economy," it's deceptive and implies capitalist countries have been pulling people out of poverty. In reality, China has pulled massively ahead with its socialist system, while capitalist countries have stagnated.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (10 children)

    What's so hard about that? You are jumping to conclusions because my account is registered on lemmy.ml because at the time it seemed like a good place to start.

    Stalin wasn't the greatest benefactor.

    Now you say it about Trump, Netanyahu and Putin.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    Just to make you happy: Xi, Putin, Trump and Netanyahu should all be tried at the ICC in The Hague.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    Trump and Putin, sure, but naming Xi before any living former US president?

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Are you really whining about list order? XD

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    It is how they are taught/programed, when one false argument fails they move down to the level. Depending how good they are, destroy 2-3 levels of false shit and they end up just name calling.

    Just look at this thread all the .ml accounts are name calling at this point.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    I got banned from memes in Lemmy.ml over whether genocide in China is real. All the supporting evidence provided to me was from the Chinese government.

    Not saying US propaganda is trustworthy either blindly believing propaganda from any government is wild.

    I was also told that no one died at Tienanmen Square in that same thread.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    I checked the thread you were talking about, that's not what happened. The supporting evidence came from a huge number of different sources, including many western sources. You also equated Chinese diaspora with the Chinese government itself, which reeks of chauvanism.

    As for the bit on Tian'anmen Square, it's correct, even Wikipedia says so:

    Deaths in and around Tian'anmen Square itself

    Government officials have long asserted that no one died in the square in the early morning hours of 4 June, during the "hold-out" of students' last batch in the south part of the square. Initially, foreign media reports of a "massacre" on the square were prevalent, though subsequently, journalists have acknowledged that most of the deaths occurred outside of the square in western Beijing. Several people who were situated around the square that night, including former Beijing bureau chief of The Washington Post Jay Mathews[i] and CBS correspondent Richard Roth[j] reported that while they had heard sporadic gunfire, they could not find enough evidence to suggest that a massacre took place on the square.

    Student leader Chai Ling claimed in a speech broadcast on Hong Kong television that she witnessed tanks arrive at the square and crush students who were sleeping in their tents, and added that between 200 and 400 students died at the square.[268] Ling was joined by fellow student leader Wu'er Kaixi who said he had witnessed 200 students being cut down by gunfire; however, according to Mathews, it was later proven that he had already left the square several hours before the events he claimed to have happened.[211] Taiwan-born Hou Dejian was present in the square to show solidarity with the students and said that he did not see any massacre occurring in the square. He was quoted by Xiaoping Li, a former China dissident to have stated: "Some people said 200 died in the square, and others claimed that as many as 2,000 died. There were also stories of tanks running over students who were trying to leave. I have to say I did not see any of that. I was in the square until 6:30 in the morning."[269]

    In 2009, human rights activist Robin Munro, stated that he was present during the clearance of Tiananmen Square and that, according to his account, there were ten Western reporters near the Monument to the People's Heroes at the time. He also reported a Spanish television crew that recorded footage of the event. Munro disputed Wu'er Kaixi's claims of mass killings inside the square, stating that he did not witness fighting there and instead observed students peacefully complying with the soldiers' demands to leave the square in an orderly manner. He further noted that the Spanish TV crew reported not seeing killings within the square during the final clearance.[270][271]

    In 2011, three secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing from the time of the events were leaked and published by WikiLeaks, all of which stated that there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square itself.[194] Instead, they said Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters in Beijing outside the square, around Muxidi station, as they fought their way from the west towards the centre.[194] A Chilean diplomat who had been positioned next to a Red Cross station inside the square told his US counterparts that he did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds in the square itself, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops who entered the square were armed only with anti-riot gear.[194][216]

    The square was evacuated bloodlessly, all of the deaths that day occurred in areas scattered around Beijing during riot suppression. A few hundred people died, which is a tragedy, but not 10,000 people being executed on the square like the west initially reported. Substantial evidence to the contrary since then has come out, and Wikipedia has accordingly responded and added this context.

    I don't think Wikipedia is a CPC front group.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Peak party truth is arguing akshully against a massacre occurring because it 'really happened a few meters outside of the square'.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    The killings weren't "a few meters outside the square." Riots happened in disparate places all over Beijing, with PLA members lynched. The PLA responded with force, and in the end a few hundred rioters and a few dozen PLA members were killed. The west reported on an entirely fabricated story of the PLA running their tanks over 10,000 students on Tian'anmen Square itself, which has remained in pop culture as the understanding of the events. It isn't about trying to play semantics, but to highlight that the west quite literally invented an entirely different history and reported on it as fact against a geopolitical enemy, one of many such examples.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    If you criticism the Chinese government on a .ml instance, you will quickly get banned for "rule 2: xenophobia".

    Go to basically any comment section of a politics-related popular post on a .ml instance. I can almost guarantee that there will be some china/Russia/north Korea brainless take.

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  • [–] 45 points 3 months ago (20 children)

    This post made me curious so I took a look at my block list, and almost all of my blocked accounts are from .world. I've only blocked two .ml users. I wonder how much that varies by instance.

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  • [–] 42 points 3 months ago

    Well lemmy.world is statistically one of the larger instances. So that's not strictly unusual. And thankfully some of the worst from ml tend to stay in their Echo Chambers being self-aware enough.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    Every time I see people from a handful of the same instance always try to pivot any discussion of one of the other handful of instances back to a criticize of .world, I go look at their post history.

    I always see the same thing; almost all .world postings, a few of the others, and none on their home instance, or any of the ones they're defending

    I keep asking, never getting an answer:

    Why do you hang around .world so much if you don't like it?

    Why not just block .world?

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Why do you hang around .world so much if you don’t like it?

    Answer: because, unfortunately, many of the most active communities are hosted on .world.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    While I appreciate the answer...

    Part of the question involved who I was asking:

    Every time I see people from a handful of the same instance always try to pivot any discussion of one of the other handful of instances back to a criticize of .world, I go look at their post history.

    "It is what it is" and commenting where the people are makes perfect rational sense.

    But...

    I'm assuming you don't immediately try to turn any criticism against an instance whose politics you agree with, back on the mainstream instance.

    If you did, then it wouldn't be rational to spend all your time here

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Throbbing_banjo was curious about their blocklist, they did not criticize anything. The reason for having a lot of lemmy.world users on there, as Eldritch said, is most likely statistics. You talk about being rational while battling made up phantoms.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I’m assuming you don’t immediately try to turn any criticism against an instance whose politics you agree with, back on the mainstream instance.

    I think that many people reflexively speak out against perceived unfairness. Why should they stay silent when they see people from a problematic mainstream instance constantly complaining about other instances that they see nothing wrong with, the vast majority of the time without evidence, I might add? I mean, it adds up to endless whining, even in completely unrelated threads. I often see it go like this:

    Person 1: "Hey, did you hear about this new scientific discovery? Pretty interesting, huh?"

    Person 2 (very often from .world or piefed.social): "Well, just stay away from the DaMn tAnKiEs! They're horrible!"

    Person 1 (or Person 3): "Huh? I didn't say anything about any tankies. Besides, .world or piefed has plenty of idiots too."

    I've rarely ever seen anyone grumble about .world in a completely unrelated thread without cause (i.e., in response to a .world person saying something stupid), but I see that all the time against mostly the socialist/communist instances with some spillover to the anarchist instances. After a while, people start to react automatically to any complaints about other instances.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Then Person 1 should block those accounts for being idiots, like I most likely did years ago...

    I’ve rarely ever seen anyone grumble about .world in a completely unrelated thread without cause

    That's easy, its all over this thread, if you don't recognize it here, you're not recognizing it elsewhere.

    Like a colorblind person insisting the color red isnt real...

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago

    That’s easy, its all over this thread, if you don’t recognize it here, you’re not recognizing it elsewhere.

    But that's appropriate in this thread, since it's specifically about a person on lemmy.world complaining about lemmy.ml. The scenario I was describing was of someone chiming in about the "tankies" in a thread completely unrelated to Lemmy instances or politics, like gardening or movies. I feel like I see this all the freaking time, but I suppose I could be wrong. It's always a possibility.

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  • [–] -5 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    That makes sense dbzer0's made a hard .ml turn lately so I could see why the users like each other.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    It is bullshit. You can read the sidebar of the instance they clearly stating they are against russia. I remember debating a pro russia person on a db zero community and they rightfully remove his comments.

    Some people just assume dbzero not defedersting from ml make them friend of ml. Thr only thing dbzero and ml agree about is anti the genocidal state of Israel

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    [–] 32 points 3 months ago (1 child)
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