idk it's my first time (kind of) trying to do dataviz, I thought the original post was super interesting but like other comments said, it was hard to read.

I think in a way it's mostly because defederation is complex to show as links, since it is the break of said link, but hopefully this type of graph is better ?

you do lose the "group" of instances view, though (and also I did not bother with per instance MAU as raw number + percentage, or sofware used)

let me know what you think!

top 91 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 57 points 3 months ago (3 children)

A bit scarier than the previous one at first glance, but the single line explanation including everything needed to understand makes it easier to read.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Something though, I think it'd be better to have a cut-off of MAU or some other relevance metric, as otherwise smaller instances defederating from major ones may sneakily make the major one seem more isolated than it really is.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 23 points 3 months ago

    Hexbear uses a whitelist so they are not federated with a bunch of these instances besides .world

  • source
  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I'm on sh.ijust.works because it has a bad word in it. I don't know what you're all complaining about

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 37 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    I know lots of folks look at this and see a shattering of the what they expect. The Fediverse is NOT a platform. Lemmy.world is NOT the Threadiverse. Let's break these bonds. I left a server because I was suspected of being a CIA plant. I went to one that was more welcoming. I found they were too strict for me on their rules. I left that. I'm not on piefed.social. I'm planning on running my own piefed for ME and MY family/friends hopefully SOON^TM. If someone defederates from me, that's ok, they didn't want me to be a part of their community. MY community still exists.

    These aren't platforms that are out there trying to save the entire world. They're building a community that interconnects to other communities. Don't like how they're doing it, you can literally spin up your own for dollars per month.

    Yes, if you want your stuff to be found you have to advocate for it.

    I think the Trek communities are stand outs of how this works and how it should be done. Think of like old Forum days. Normally folks would create a forum for a specific topic and other thigns would go other places. But now those forums connect and you can run your own and connect to everyone.

    Break this idea that this major pillars disconnecting are fracturing the fediverse. IMO the more small instances we have the stronger the network.

    So build a Piefed/Lemmy/Mastodon/GoToSocial/Bonfire whatever for your community and then allow those to connect out to others.

    The idea of this change is scary though. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we can't exist the way I hope we do. But I think humans strive for community and communication and we have a new way to provide it to them.

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 24 points 3 months ago

    Besides, and related to "not being a platform", it helps break the idea of everyone having to share the same space with everyone. If two groups can't have a healthy relationship, it is healthier for them to cut ties with each other. Meanwhile, the oligarchic platforms being as big and with barely any internal borders makes for the toxic environment of places like Reddit and Twitter that predates recent polemics.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    Don’t like how they’re doing it, you can literally spin up your own for dollars per month.

    Not so easy.
    Mostly a liability issue.
    First there's security - make sure the server doesn't get compromised.
    Then you need to figure out how to deal with illegal content like CSAM (was already a widespread issue on Lemmy at least once, causing multiple instances to shutdown) - even on private instance due to content caching.
    And legal issues such as minimum age and privacy regulations that you'd have to comply with.

    3rd one is not an issue if you only use it yourself, and perhaps with a couple of friends that won't try to sue you when they get mad.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I always thought that people are drawn into the default instances because they have less friction to sign up and login in third-party apps. Along with new people not quite grasping how the fediverse works when they start using it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago

    Yes. This. Big Tech has taught folks that there's only ONE place to sign up. We have to help folks realize, and undo the damage, of centralization. And that's going to be a very personal and community minded idea. We shouldn't be going up to everyone and yelling "SIGN UP TO MASTODON!" Because we'll get "how?" And the answer will be mastodon.social. Instead we need to find groups, let's say your local gaming group and say "hey I set up this thing that allows us to talk about our local gaming group and OH YEAH it connects to all this other cool shit btw."

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
    [–] 13 points 3 months ago* (10 children)

    It doesn't even Include https://lemmy.today/ that has no defederation or blocking at all, and has never had, since the admin feels it's up to the user and not the admin to decide these things. You know, free and open internet, remember?

    Also one of the best themes of all Lemmy instances if you ask me.

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] [S] 10 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    You gotta ask the OOP about that, but my guess is, in a graph that shows instances that defederate, why include an instance that doesn't?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    I see your point I guess. Perhaps defederation is something that users want, and then they are happy to see who does it the most?

    Im not like that myself, but I can see the point.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago*

    why include an instance that doesn’t?

    Because it lets you see how common or uncommon defederations are relative to the total set of all instances (or at least, all minus the long tail of very-low-user-count ones). And although it would make the graph larger, it would also make it sparse and IMO that would also be easier to read.

    It could also give a misleading impression that all instances defederate or are defederated by somebody, making people think it's more common than it actually is. (Or maybe not doing that, if you include all^ish^ instances and it still ends up being not very sparse.)

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    Came here to say that!

    I can't comprehend why people would join instances in the list. If you don't like a particular instance, just hop into the user settings and block it! Why let others set your blocklist?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    The first and most obvious is that (last I checked on Lemmy) per-user instance blocks only block posts, not comments. This means that for truly spammy instances (cough Hexbear cough) it requires an instance-wide block to achieve.

    Secondly, I would argue it is the same as any other reason to choose an instance. That being, I have to generally like the vibe and agree with the way it's run. For example, I have to agree with the instance rules and trust the admins to moderate them. This is an extension of that.

    In the case of lemmy.ca specifically, I would say every major defederation I know of has been cast to a community vote and has had solid reasoning behind it. It comes back to trust and matching opinions: I (currently) trust the admin team to have reasonable defederations as they have matched or been similar to my opinions in the past.

    I enjoy not having to self-moderate my experience outside of individual users or rare cases. Choosing an instance that generally aligns with your views allows your admin team to do some moderation for you.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Besides ideology, preferences, bot filtering, or content, there’s also the matter of blocking things like CSAM, gore, etc. Lemmy proposes to not only factor in user preferences but also to properly curate the content via its moderators.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Honestly, that's one thing I've never ever seen on the Fediverse, while having seen plenty in conventional social media.

    It's fair that some moderation action might be necessary going forward, but I don't see this problem exist at a current scale.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 11 points 3 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    I assume for you it may be because of your display type. But that made me think of colorblind people and how much this format probably totally excludes them as an entire swath of the population

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    But that made me think of colorblind people and how much this format probably totally excludes them as an entire swath of the population

    I'm colorblind. It does :/

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Do you have any design suggestions for op? (Assuming they're the originators of this chart)

    Because as it is, this data is pretty hard to concisely portray. Whoever made this decided to use color, alone, which, even for me who is not colorblind, thinks could use some improvement. Design IS hard, the question is how.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    In this particular instance, I don't have many suggestions other than, maybe change the saturation?

    To give an example, the rainbow pride flag has always looked muddy to me;

    But I recently saw a colorblind friendly version that, to my eyes anyway, looks really good. I can much more easily distinguish the stripes in this one:

    I don't know the exact mechanics of how these are different. But maybe there's a lesson here about colorblind friendly stats representation?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    The second flag's colors look extremely well balanced in both brightness and color variance between them. That's weirdly satisfying to look at.

    But yeah, just having higher contrast in the chart would be a good start. Maybe some kind of three dimensionality with graded shadows? Or like have them as lines, and have them not have such similar angles? But then I expect that to be messy and not quick to read, either.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 months ago

    Chiming in as the OP, I used rawgraphs.io which only has 2 colour palettes for this amount of data (the first one only covers 7 colors the rest becomes grey), there's the option to pick your own colours and I considered picking colours from instances logos so they would fit. No idea if that would have been better for accessibility. In general there are colourblind-friendly colour palettes suggestions out there and I should have checked them first!

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    The similar color makes it slightly difficult to read but the graph is better, and easier to understand. Anyways, you are skilled, good job :3

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago

    What a mess. Not the graph, just all the netsplits in general.

  • source
  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago

    I like this representation a lot.

  • source
  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    So why does everyone hate lemmygrad and hexbear? I'm out of the loop on that.

  • source
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Hexbear originated from ChapoTrapHouse fandom which is a part of the so-called dirtbag left that explicitly antagonizes (neo)liberals. They also don't use downvotes and encourage users to voice their opinions instead.

    So every wave of redditor freaks the hell out when they get a handful of hexbear users clowning on some take like it's a coordinated brigade attack.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I have mixed feelings about that. Thanks for explaining!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    I should probably add there's also been a community on my instance dedicated to portraying Hexbear, Lemmygrad, and .ml in the worst possible way, usually by taking a single comment or DM out of context. The user running it finally fucked off from the Fediverse just a month or two back.

    Since that community is now being run by overt Zionists who are into spreading outright doctored screenshots, hopefully it'll fall into long overdue irrelevance. If you ever see the term 'tankie triad' that's probably one of them.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    lemmygrad because they are perceived as tankies / commies, and thus get all the kneerjerk reaction from the people who are unwilling to apply the same standards to the US, the EU or Israel.

    Hexbear, honestly no idea.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago

    Tankies act a heck of a lot like Alt-Right MAGA, both outright calling for genocide so long as it is done against their enemies rather than allies. In short, tankies claim to be leftist, but aren't.

    img

    That said, Hexbear isn't even that much really, so much as pure trolling for its own sake. Both are examples of what happens when echo chambers are allowed to exist for a long time - the people inside become radicalized and immune to factual information from the outside that may run counter to their allowed list of interpretations of matters.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago* (9 children)

    I’m kinda surprised that so many instances have defederated from fedinsfw.app It’s just porn, right? Who cares?

    Maybe I’m naive and missing an important point. If so, I apologize for my ignorance.

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 36 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    If people want porn there's a million places they can look instead. It makes sense to just remove porn spam from your instance, most people don't really want it in with everything else. Also, it's harder to moderate or find people willing to moderate it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    i havent seen any of the discussions leading to this, but i assume the sheer amount of images/video takes up a lot of space, so they instances decided to avoid it altogether.

    that and potential risks if something particularly unsavory becomes mirrored on your instance.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    but i assume the sheer amount of images/video takes up a lot of space

    You can adjust settings in Lemmy to not store other instances media like this, so this shouldn't be a big problem with the right config.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago

    The way the apps and frontends are setup, its easy enough to use alts for different usecases instead of having porn attached to general instances. Seperating gooner personas from regular is a positive imo. Keep that energy on the nsfw instances, banning them isn't like reddit getting rid of a community, everyone still can sign up and access it on the same app they already use. I always hated scrolling on r/all and seeing porn every 5 posts (nsfw tag covers a lot of non porn) Doesn't mean I don't use reddit for porn, I think I wouldve preferred having an alt there that only showed porn subs and vice versa with my main account showing none. Some seperation is healthy imo.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    i know blahaj at least defederated it because of "a community for porn of women that appear to be under 18" (direct quotation from a local-only post)

    i couldn’t find it myself (there’s a lot of communities on there!) but i’m guessing it’s some sort of "barely legal" porn community, which is gross (but unfortunately very common). so good riddance imo

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    It's not just porn.

    It's pretty much all fetish and kink stuff... At least last time I looked. Including cartoons of children. Maybe worse than cartoons. Noped out quick. Cops find that shit in your cache and you might be going to prison.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago

    In addition to comments others have made about some of the colors being difficult to see/differentiate, I think it would be worthwhile to distinguish one-way defederation from mutual defederation, perhaps with a texture?

    It would make the graphic busier, but I also would enjoy seeing population percentages next to each instance name (to give weight to the significance of certain defederations, e.g. how much of the fediverse are you excluding by defederating with hexbear vs lemmy.world).

  • source
  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    It would be cool to have something like the internet map but of the fediverse

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I find this much harder to read than the previously posted diagram, and it contains less information.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago*

    It's a very clear visualization. I do agree that some indication of the scale/activity of the instances would be a nice addition.

    I also think you should add a date, as the relationships and active servers will likely change over time. If you keep it up, eventually you'll have a collection that illustrates the changes.

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    This makes much more sense thanks

  • source
  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Now I am curious what is going on in fedinsfw.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    Legal risk. Being federated means mirroring the content locally and that can cause liability for the instance owner. Laws around porn can vary by country and to some being federated could be illegal, or be an unreasonable risk.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Ah, thankyou! As a lazy person not sure who my instance was blocking, I now know. Excellent. Better find an instance who doesn't block any instances.

  • source
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    I think it's prettier but harder to glean information from.

  • source
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    I find it mildly interesting that there's no inverse of lemmygrad, that defederates from everybody else

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • I love how almost everybody defederates with Lemmygrade lmao

  • source
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    One point of order, you lost slrpnk.net's defederation of hexbear.net

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    It's very pretty and a worthwhile attempt, but personally I think it's rather unreadable lol. All you need is four circles for the four major groups that defederate.

  • source
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Blahaj federated lemmynsfw? Interesting

  • source
  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I have to say, now it's even more amusing to hear people claim '.world is a bunch of narrow minded [whatevers] who block all opinions they don't like' (2 instances 😱)

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    nifty strongly curved arrows

    I should sort my ties this way…

  • source
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    As it is, bright yellow on a white background results in me barely being able to see who any of the lemmy instances defederate from.

  • source
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago*

    I've updated my spreadsheet with data of everything with at least 50 MAU (60 instances); pretty much have my updated defederation graph done in terms of instance placement (shared it on Matrix for feedback), just need to add more statistics to it.

    Adding more instances of course increases the complexity, so while I made adjustments to hopefully make the boxes easier to differentiate, any graph at scale will be somewhat confusing without animation that allows the end user to focus on one instance at a time.

    Your visualization definitely adds a degree of clarity to things, so maybe I'll spend more time working on my design too.

  • source
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago*

    Lot of unnecessary lines crossing. Why do the 5 at the top left not just swoop around instead of crossing 2 or 3 others? Why do the two defederating lemmy.world cross each other?

    3 yellows and two slightly orange and slightly green yellows are hard to differentiate at times.

  • source
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Very cool, bien joué ha ha

  • source
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›