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[–] 155 points 3 months ago (13 children)

I don't know how anyone fell for this pump and dump scheme in the first place.

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  • [–] 84 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    I do :(. I'm also worried about which of my 401ks bought in to it too

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  • [–] 37 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    That's the most outrageous part. The most obviously fraudulent company being given fast track to s&p 500 (although I just read that decision was overturned) NASDAQ100 just reeks of corruption.

    EDIT: thanks for the correction. I don't know much about USA or their economic stuff.

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  • [+] -71 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    I mean you choose your investments for your 401(k). Maybe it is time to learn about which funds you’re invested in and make sure they’re appropriate for your time horizon and risk tolerance.

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  • [–] 73 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    401(k) is managed by the employer and you can only pick from the funds they have selected. That really doesn't leave much choice for most people.

    That's why people should consider doing a rollover into IRA anytime they have a job change and not just rollover into the new employer's 401(k).

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  • [+] -33 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    It’s not like it’s stocks. It’s index funds and you can get a list of the funds offered. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an index fund that included SpaceX

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  • [–] 39 points 3 months ago

    Broad-market funds like the Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI) and the iShares Core S&P Total U.S. Stock Market ETF (ITOT) include SpaceX.

    SpaceX was added to the Nasdaq-100, meaning funds that track it, such as the Invesco QQQ ETF, hold the stock.

    Benchmarks like the Russell 1000 also hold SpaceX, automatically populating funds like the iShares Russell 1000 ETF (IWB)

    https://www.investopedia.com/spacex-stock-joins-major-index-funds-what-regular-investors-need-to-know-spcx-ipo-vanguard-blackrock-vti-itot-12004764

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  • [–] 21 points 3 months ago

    I'm not even American and even I know that the level of corruption involved in the SpaceX IPO means that even people who want nothing to do with SpaceX had their investments tied up in SpaceX.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Man before Elon was a public figure it was so easy to fanboy. Reusable rockets is an insane feet of human engineering. At least now we have some competition in the space.

    I know that it was the talented engineers at SpaceX doing that engineering and huge publicity subsidies, but it felt like a step forward.

    Why can't Elon just leave SpaceX alone.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    It's unfortunately bigger than just the suckers being suckered. These things also get pumped a lot by "early investors", whose strategy is to get the stock immediately and sell quickly to take adventage of the initial surge. They increase the demand a lot and contribute to that surge.

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  • [–] 48 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    Seeing musk fail makes me giddy. Seeing people who dumped and lost their money on him makes me giddier. FAFO

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  • [–] 26 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    Unfortunately, a lot of people didn't have a choice in the matter.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    A lot of Americans voted for this clown, remember? And most of those voters were fine when DOGE destroyed the lives of many. Now it‘s their turn to pay up. Let this be a lesson for Americans. Subscribing into an ideology of selfishness and hatred comes at a cost for society.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 22 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Your money in savings and insurance and superannuation funds is often reinvested in shit like this.

    It's worth dropping yours an email and asking whether they do or not..

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    The 401k that americans use also automatically invested in it if they didnt opt out iirc

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    There isn't a single 401k that Americans use. 401k is an index fund, an investment vehicle. I'm sure many included SpaceX but plenty did not.

    And as an individual you can't really "opt out" of individual stocks in the fund. You could roll all of your investment into a different fund that doesn't include the stock you don't want, but I don't know of any broker that allows people to pick and choose which stocks they want to use in their 401k. You give them money, they manage the fund, that's how it goes.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Mine is invested in the UK with a focus towards sustainability and green energy, so I am safe. Plus I don't really care much if it doesn't go negative. Just want to pay off my mortgage and then stop working much.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Shorting the stock and making money on your own when Musk fails

    (This is not financial advice. In fact it’s very dangerous as Musks companies often perform irrationally)

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  • [–] 35 points 3 months ago (26 children)

    We ain't seen nothing yet. In 2-3 weeks the Q2 report will release at which 20% of stocks held by employees will be unlocked, which has hit even profitable and not-fantasy-based companies hard in the past. There will also be a wave of resignations from people who cash out and if that takes key people then investors back off even further. My guess is fElon wants the stock to stay high until next summer when he can sell, but he NEEDS it to stay high until November when early investors can cash out. He has borrowed billions from people you wouldn't want to owe $1 and been delaying and juggling for a few years with tacking together this SpaceX nonsense amalgamation.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (20 children)

    In 2-3 weeks the Q2 report will release at which 20% of stocks held by employees will be unlocked, which has hit even profitable and not-fantasy-based companies hard in the past.

    When you consider the kind of life changing amounts of money even a few thousand shares sell for at current rates, they'd be crazy not to.

    My guess is fElon wants the stock to stay high until next summer when he can sell, but he NEEDS it to stay high until November when early investors can cash out

    It's fallen maybe 12% since the IPO. You're talking about shares that were trading for a few bucks during the original debt offerings. Marc Andressen has something like a 6000% ROI on his holdings even at current prices.

    If this company dropped by 50%, it would still be worth in the $800B range. There's no world in which current shareholders don't make fuckoff amounts of profit. The only question is whether we're talking nine figures or ten.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (17 children)

    50% might prove optimistic. The rules that were bent for SpaceX exist for reasons. The August dump will be 4X the shares already in the wild. You are right, employees would be crazy not to sell at current rates. SpaceX employees are probably smart and/or educated enough to read the white papers on all these science fantasy projects and know they are pure fantasy. Cool stuff to fire up investment bros, but not the kind of thing they want to be tasked with trying to make reality. Point being, the floor for what an employee would not sale is going to be really low. True believers might hold, but anyone who smells the BS or just likes money will gleefully sell at 50% of current.

    Meanwhile, China is making great strides in VTVL and much cheaper, open source LLMs. The EU is eager to find home grown or at the least not-American tech solutions. Every headline makes SpaceX look less and less likely to make ANY profits, let alone completely dominate supposedly multi-trillion dollar markets.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Even if they did believe in the possibilities, they are likely eager to offload in favor of a more diversified investment strategy.

    Most folks I know that even think their company is in decent enough shape sell off RSUs quick as they can because they broadly don't trust having a bunch in a single company stock. Especially if that stock collapsing would likely correlate with them losing their paycheck too.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (14 children)

    The August dump will be 4X the shares already in the wild.

    So, from 1% of market cap to 2%?

    Spread over shareholders who still hold north of 90% of the company?

    Meanwhile, China is making great strides in VTVL and much cheaper, open source LLMs. The EU is eager to find home grown or at the least not-American tech solutions.

    China (and India and Brazil, among others) are all making huge investments in aerospace. The EU is certainly making a lot of noise, but because everything is privatized to fuck, what you're left with is guess like Richard Branson paddin wallets while programs like the FCAS flounder.

    Every headline makes SpaceX look less and less likely to make ANY profits

    Starlink is still the modern word in satellite communication. That's worth a few hundred billion on it's face.

    Will this advantage last? Idk. Probably not, but maybe.

    At a minimum, if you want to be friendly with America, you'll need to buy from Musk.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    Starlink, which is nowhere near worth that much even under a best case scenario (compare to other comm companies), can make money and SpaceX still not make any profits because of the the xAI money pit. Also, no, the advantage will not last. The last 30 years of satellite communications have been one seemingly promising idea after another that fizzled out or was made obsolete. No reason to think that trend will change now, especially not when the Starlink model is extremely resource intensive.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    Starlink, which is nowhere near worth that much even under a best case scenario

    The existing network plus whatever Elon Musk can launch in the next twenty years, assuming an absence of competition could be a trillion dollar company. When you've got a monopoly on military satellite technology in a market full of warring super states, that's a lot of economic leverage.

    I'm deeply skeptical that he'll have that edge for long. But I can at least interesting someone who thinks it's worth a gamble.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    The existing network will be gone within a few years. By design. If all goes well for SpaceX, it will have been replaced by a new network, which will also be gone within a few years.

    Just pointing out that the existing network can't be relied upon without continued re-investment constantly. It's hard to build up a strong first mover advantage when the fruits of the effort burn up in the atmosphere routinely.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (5 children)

    assuming an absence of competition

    And that no one comes up with a better tech and extending it out 20 years for... reasons. Sure. Ok. Trillion dollar company under those very reasonable assumptions.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Musk's done an excellent job of cornering the market in a few other sectors, EVs most notably. You'll notice how all the other American firms and even a few of the Japanese and Korean companies are bowing out and running away.

    I'm not saying its a safe bet. But it's not as unreasonable as you might think.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    Tesla has 7.7% of EV market share. What "few other sectors" were you referring to?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    He's got his finger in virtually every major AI pot. And his Boring Company has big footed proper HSR for decades

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (4 children)

    Who is going to pay the money for there to be a reasonable return on that value? I don't have Starlink, I have no need for it, since there's a cable coming into where I live. Sure there's people that live in remote places that it's useful for. But that's not a lot of people.

    There are military applications, but Musk is a flake not military wants to be dependent on him. Every country in the world is spending a lot of money to end their dependence on the US defense industrial complex, so there will be alternatives for military purposes.

    Maybe it can work in vehicles? But if the price is too high people will just use 5G or just go without access for a while.

    Starlink is just a product to fill in some edge cases. It will probably make a steady profit, but there will be competition from Europe and China before too long.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    Who is going to pay the money for there to be a reasonable return on that value?

    Government militaries, mostly. The Pentagon and it's NATO allies, militaries across the Pacific Rim, Ukraine, etc.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, so everyone is moving away from dependencies on the US. Not likely anyone will want their comms dependent on a system a US President (or Elon Musk) can shut down for leverage in a trade deal.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    everyone is moving away from dependencies on the US

    Balance of Trade with the US has only grown year-over-year for the last decade, with the singular exception of 2023.

    Everyone is not moving away from US dependencies, especially wrt to natural gas imports. European liberals are flirting with a degree of sovereign independence, while European conservatives are more and more aligned with MAGA tech billionaires. Latin American fascists are fully enthralled by the Rubio State Department as everyone from El Salvador to Costa Rica to Honduras to Peru race to build out the biggest network of Supermax Prisons for their northern neighbors to exploit. Out in the Pacific Rim, all the countries with American military bases are churning out pro-American politicians as fast as their mega-corporations can mint them. From South Korea to Japan to the Philippines to Australia, it's been a parade of Trump-friendly flunkies and ultra-nationalist goon squads. India's more aligned with America than it has ever been. The Middle Eastern states, from Egypt to Qatar to Turkiye, love Trump and can't stop sending him bribe money. The big African economies, from Nigeria to Cameroon to Ethiopia, have all been aligned with Trump since his first term (thanks largely to his friendliness with international petrochemical firms).

    Not likely anyone will want their comms dependent on a system a US President

    I wish that were true, but it simply is not. Multi-nationals and government militaries are all very eager to sign on with Musk, while their host countries debate the merits of investing in alternative programs. But, for the time being, Starlink is really the only game in town.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Only silly Americans think geopolitics has anything to do with "liberals". This is realpolitk, son. Trump has made the US an unreliable ally. It will take time, but the rest of the world will detach from the US. We aren't going to build a military industrial complex in a day, but it's going to happen.

    In the first Trump term people thought it was a blip. Americans got scammed into voting for that clown. But after Jan. 6 he revealed to the world who he really was. Then y'all voted him in again. You proved it wasn't a blip, Trump represents who you really are.

    The US can't be the arsenal of democracy when it doesn't really believe in democracy anymore. The arsenal of democracy will be elsewhere in the future.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    here’s no world in which current shareholders don’t make fuckoff amounts of profit.

    Well some of the shareholders, clearly none of the peope who had to wait for the IPO are going to make some unless they managed to sell off in the 4 days after IPO.

    Beyond that, we don't know that much about the pre-IPO costs and how low it can go for them to still make out like bandits.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    none of the peope who had to wait for the IPO are going to make some unless they managed to sell off in the 4 days after IPO.

    Fully unironically know a few folks who did exactly that. Got in at $135 and sold on the way up to $200, because it's insane to hold a company with a P/E of... 1000x? Something stupid like that.

    we don’t know that much about the pre-IPO costs

    We know what firms like Thiel's Founder's Fund and Andressen Horowitz paid for minority positions during the earlier funding rounds (Series A -J and assorted debt swaps). And we also know what a few of the outsider funds - EchoStar, for instance - paid for advanced shares shortly before the public offering. There were definitely some deals that were worse than others (the July 2025 Tender at $212/share was EchoStar, the December 2025 Tender at $421/share was to the company's own employees as well as some other earlier investors).

    Even then, the volume of shares sold was miniscule compared to shares outstanding.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    Is that going to be 20% of stock held by each employee can be sold, or 20% of employees can sell their stock?

    If it's the latter then yes, I can see them cashing out and leaving.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    20% of all stocks, specifically those held by employees.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    That doesn't make sense so I went and looked it up.

    According to the S-1 filing of SpaceX, shareholders (which include employees with stock) can sell up to 20% of their stock starting on the second full day of trading after the company releases its first earnings report.

    So each employee can sell 20% of their stock (probably options, but since they've had an "Employee Share Purchase Plan" (ESPP) some will hold actual shares). If 80% of someone's holdings are dependent on them staying at SpaceX I doubt many will leave after selling 20%.

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  • [–] 27 points 3 months ago

    It’s fun to laugh at the worst people taking Ls, until one realises that the insiders got to sell up early, leaving retail investors holding the bag, and that these involve not just eminently punchable Musk-idolising incel chuds or even FOXNews grandpas but ordinary working stiffs with pension funds and savings. Chances are everything went exactly to plan and even as Musk lost his very brief trillionaire status, he managed to cash out a lot of his virtual wealth.

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  • [–] 51 points 3 months ago
    [–] 66 points 3 months ago
    [–] 21 points 3 months ago

    Is musk the first person to lose 1 trillion dollars? Quite the honor.

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  • [–] 41 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    That's because it was severely over valued for a company that produces no product and makes no profit.

    To be fair it was a solid pump and dump.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    You mean creating a worldwide communication system that has to be completely relaunched every half decade that is the exact opposite of profitable isn't sustainable!?

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    Actually the Starlink division itself is profitable.

    The unprofitable part is Twitter and xAI which got merged in right before the IPO.

    SpaceX was actually on the path to being quite profitable, but then Musk tried to hide his two biggest money sinks inside it.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Profitable like Tesla? That is not actually profitable without a big chunk (like a third) of their money from government subsidies.

    https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/117956/documents/HMKP-119-JU00-20250226-SD003.pdf

    It appears SpaceX may not be as highly leveraged with the government with only 20% of its total revenue from government contracts.

    It is interesting to look this up but ultimately what I mean is long term profitability considering they will have to continuously replace their satellites every 5-10 years.

    The combining of his companies is a whole other level of fuckery that regulators should have smacked down instantly, but you know reality.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Good. Maybe one day the investors will see this idiot for what he is: a greedy racist fascist. And stop investing in his bullshit.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago
    [–] 18 points 3 months ago
    [–] 18 points 3 months ago

    he can drop still further

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    He's such a loser not even his stock wants to hang around with him

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Sadly Here, hé is not a loser. Things happened exactly the way he wanted to. He won big, his idiot fans lost bigger

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    I wont dispute that he certainly benefited from being able to buy entire countries and pay off any regulatory agency he didnt go at with an axe, but I think we all lost out as a result, not just his fanboys

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Prime wallstreetbets material

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    New low is going to become a common phrase for space x. Boldly going where no stock has gone before.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I assure you, many stocks have gone much much lower. It's called "penny stocks". They're exactly what they sound like. They're mostly used as pump and dump schemes. Company is worth $0.01 per stock? Buy $10,000 dollars worth. Then, when it eventually becomes worth $0.02, you sell, and make an easy $10,000. Repeat every few days.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    The irony is that Musk himself has already cashed out enormous wealth over the years: Whether the stock jumps or drops today barely changes his position. The people really feeling the pain are the retail investors who treated him like an infallible genius instead of managing their own risk.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    Its everything I hoped for.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    good, we knew it was bloat but it was still annoying af listening to people go "wow a trillionire", fucking wealth glazer are garbage people 9/10 times.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    9/10 times

    This leaves a room for the assumed 10% non-garbarge billionaire-stans, and I'm wondering what set of traits would such a person have, other than being an absolute boot-sucking loser.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago
    [–] 9 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    The majority of people who have bought SpaceX stock are now down at LEAST 18% in value.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Was this not the plan all along? I thought it was an open secret to open woth high price, let initial investors sell their shares. Let 401K and small-time investors buy it, up and take the fall.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    Yep. AI has drained the venture capital well dry. So...

    • You merge xAI with SpaceX to make one profit making company and a loss making company in to a mixed financial bag.
    • Hype "Data-centres in Space" for a good six months to make it seem like it all makes sense.
    • Sell all your compute to Anthropic / Google (with 90-day termination clauses) to get some revenue on the books.
    • Lobby that you're such a good deal S&P and NASDAQ should change their rules to admit entry to their "required to buy" stocks. NASDAQ bites, but S&P refused.
    • IPO: $80B raised from IPO partners (banks) at $135 per share. Job done. No control lost because the share of the company was so low.
    • IPO subscribers (banks) sell to markets at upto $225. Lots of happy bankers. Retail markets (e.g. investment funds) now holds the shares, but it's all good, right? Nasdaq have it listed so there's an enforced buy in two weeks.
    • Stock slides. Enforced buy comes at ~$145 per share and it feels a bit more firm for a day or two.
    • Stock resumes it's slide to below it's IPO price.
    • Stock now sits at $124

    Net result:

    • Space X : +$80B
    • IPO subscribers: +$40B...ish
    • Public Shareholders: +5% of SpaceX (Currently $69B) & -$120B
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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago*

    What? A company that is making -5 billion net income lost 1 trillion in market value?!

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    It's going to be interesting to see what happens to the stock price the next time SpaceX blows up a test rocket.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    The word "value" here is really subjective.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago

    And they're gonna sprinkle this into our index funds, yay!!

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    This is the sort of news that achieve nothing and only give this guy visibility

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    It was only ever worth that much to the absolute dumbest motherfuckers on the planet.

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