We need to get back to being human beings and human doings

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[–] 129 points 4 months ago (23 children)

There are places in America that are like this, you have to be able to afford it though.

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  • [–] 23 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Or be so poor and in such a backwater place that time has no meaning.

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  • [–] 101 points 4 months ago (18 children)

    Yes, the naivety of OOP not realizing that southern Europe is some of the most expensive real estate in the world and that the Americans moving there are moving with hoarded wealth is hilarious to me. "Let them eat cake" energy

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  • [–] 68 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Last time I checked there were actually non-rich people in southern Europe.

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  • [–] -5 points 4 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 34 points 4 months ago* (5 children)

    Yeah, give Mexico City a try. It's very much the same, only not so financially out of reach. You can get an okay house there for like $70,000 so you can buy a $2.5 million mansion. It's up to you and what kind of money you have.

    I'm just coming back off of three weeks there and holy crap what a difference between America and Mexico.

    Every street corner has foot traffic. There are shops every two city blocks for a 20 mile radius. There's a variety and art and culture, and everyone's just taking it easy. No one's in a big rush, even when their traffic is absolutely insane, it's insanity that's dealt with with a logical mind.

    Culturally, America is 100 years behind Mexico City.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    I've been to Mexico a few times, and I never would have described it that way to anybody. I literally saw people living in sheds when I went there.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I haven't been to Mexico City, but I did get to go to Puerto Vallarta, and it seemed to match that person's experience. It was safe, cheap, and beautiful. Honestly I don't remember seeing people living in sheds, but it might have been outside of the places we visited. Traffic was annoying, but less than a similar-sized city in the US. It helped that lot of people walked or used bikes. And the food was really fresh.

    The guy we were visiting was from the US and had moved there essentially because it was so nice while still having a very low cost of living compared to probably anywhere in the US. He mentioned the culture there was much more relaxed about time, so I wouldn't be surprised if they had a lot in common with OP's view of Southern Europe.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Who will provide the grand design:
    What is yours and what is mine?
    Cause there is no more new frontier.
    We have got to make it here.

    We satisfy our endless needs,
    And justify our bloody deeds,
    In the name of destiny,
    And in the name of God.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    What are you talking about? Real estate prices in southern Europe vary widely. Centers of the main cities on the coast are very expensive, everything else not so much. You will find the same lifestyle in Marbella and Cordoba but the prices are completely different. Not to mention all the smaller towns and villages with lots of real estate for sale. "Hoarded wealth" my ass.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I feel like you have never been nor seen from afar the situation in most southern europe countries huh

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 92 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    American here - we're conditioned from birth to think not working as hard as possible to make money for somebody else is lazy.

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago

    I’m in the fortunate position that I could tell my chronically ill spouse to just not work.

    Took them literally years to work through the guilt of not working, the capitalist conditioning of work being your source of value was so strong.

    Of all the things I’ve accomplished in my life, knowing that my beautiful, creative, loving spouse gets to spend their days not being crushed by the capitalist machine is my most cherished.

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  • [–] 56 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Apparently I live in the wrong Southern Europe

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  • [–] 38 points 4 months ago

    Just got back from southern France. Yeah this lifestyle here is bullshit.

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  • [–] 35 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    Can… can I move to southern Europe?

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Assuming you're a privileged white person with an employer who is willing to fill out paperwork and vouch for you with the government before they've even hired you and aren't trying to stay permanently

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    It's not as bad as you think. I know many people who moved here (Germany) from outside the EU and are now on their way to citizenship or already have it.

    You don't have to be a "privileged white person" for that either.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    Spain has massively increased it's population. Even though the birthrate is below replacement level. All of that is immigration.

    You can move to basically anywhere. Most countries offer legal immigration paths. Some are of course harder than others, but it's possible.

    Especially if you are highly skilled. Such as a medical doctor.

    Countries love already educated professionals, since they basically get all the benefit of a fully working adult without the downside of paying for its childcare or education.

    And even if low educated, most first world countries want low educated foreigners that can do the "dirty" physical work that the locals don't want to do, such as construction.

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  • [–] 31 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    I see all the reels of Europeans coming to the US for the World Cup and they’re shocked how nice we are, how good the food is, etc etc. I have to remind myself that they’re visiting and that yes, we are nice on average and we don’t all live like an episode of The Wire, they don’t have to experience our job culture, health care, car requirement, extreme weather, and batshit insane and corrupt political system. Yes this is a great place to visit, but your life here is very much dictated by the hand you were dealt at birth.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Also these people are on vacation. People are in a good mood on vacation. They don't mind a lot of everyday bs. They don't really care of the food prices because they already spent a couple thousands to be there. Emotionally, they are in a theme park.

    And importantly, they are drunk.

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  • [–] 29 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    It's really just laughing at us at this point.

    There is very little chance of most of us escaping to Europe. Every program that I've looked at for moving over there has been entirely closed within a day or two due to the amount of applications being sent in.

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  • Your mind is under control, your defeatism is maxed out

    Check this out

    If you're a U.S. citizen, you can move to the Netherlands under the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty (DAFT). You need to start or register a business in the Netherlands (freelancing counts), maintain at least €4,500 in the business, and apply for a DAFT residence permit. The permit is initially granted for 2 years and can be renewed as long as you're actively running the business. It's one of the easiest ways for Americans to legally live in the Netherlands as a self-employed person.

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  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago* (5 children)

    ... and my entire American life has been an oscillation between being indescribably furious, knowing that 'it doesnt have to be this way' and then laughing uproariously at people being surprised by the astoundingly predictable outcome of literally every one burning out and crashing out.

    This never could work, the way we do things... its inhuman, and insane.

    It is no measure of sanity to be well adjusted to deeply disturbed society.

    We're just now finally experiencing the part where gravity resumes affecting Wile E Coyote.

    ... but we have a very long way to still fall.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    As a neruospicy person that's also an INTJ on the Meyer Briggs scale, let me tell you that "infuriating" doesn't even come CLOSE to describing it.

    Like I've spent 30 YEARS thinking of how to fix this busted system, read stoic, humanist, capitalist and socialist philosophy, Examined several world religions, studied most of european history, and am up to date on most science,... in short, I'm not a "know it all," I make it my business to be well versed.

    So when I come up with an idea of how to really get down to the nuts and bolts of the issues, only to be told that my solutions would never work, the only thing I have to say to everyone is

    "Not with that attitude." As I scream internally.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    As someone who self-identifies almost the same exact way: yes, shit's way beyond infuriating.

    Like I’ve spent 30 YEARS thinking of how to fix this busted system

    The only conclusion I routinely come to is that this whole place operates like one gigantic work camp, and (in a way) we're still in the colonial era, built on top of centuries of extractive capitalism. We've made some progress by eliminating slavery, but the actual colonialism part has concluded within the continental US; it's still happening elsewhere. The suffering doesn't stop until we dramatically curtail incentives for exploitation of all forms.

    There's a bunch of ways that could take shape, but as you suggest, they all require a change in attitude to pull off.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    Hah, yeah you're basically descibing my 20s.

    Now, I'm an absurdist / cynical bastard, who just laughs as ... 90% of all the things I told people would happen, are currently happening, to society broadly, and themselves personally.

    None of these people ever apologized for the mockery and social ostracization and gaslighting they did for the last 20 years... so fuck em!

    That I was correct means nothing. That I caused them to experience the cognitive dissonance of their lack of actually thinking about things... is apparently the only thing that matters.

    Which basically just means these people are selfish, egotistical, and lazy.

    The good news is that I don't actually have to do anything about that. I can safely exist in my own way, at a bit of a distancd, while these idiots do their own survival of the fittest to each other.

    I just had to get over the immense grief of fully realizing the extent to which I could do nothing about the incredible amount of unnecessary harm most normies gleefully do to themselves and others.

    That is apparently just the human condition.

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  • [–] 53 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    i am one generation too late to get dual citizenship in finland via bloodline, and i will never get over that. i hate it here

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  • [–] 48 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    You are not too late, you can still get finnish citizenship the same way as every other immigrant: you have to live there for 8 years, and learn the beautiful agglutinative language!

    https://migri.fi/en/citizenship-for-adults

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    i would loooove to learn the language but it is daunting. i know one phrase i learned from my granpa, i know how to ask what time it is. lol

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    If your parents acquire citizenship would you not be fewer generations removed?

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  • [+] 48 points 4 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Their intentions do not disqualify the legitimate point made though. As a European, the last time I considered I could maybe live in the former united states was around 1997. So well before it turned full-on shithead Magastan.

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  • [–] 24 points 4 months ago

    If people would stop voting for conservatives we could all have better lives.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    I dont think i'd survive the American hustle life, where everything is a potential sale and money is all your ever taught to create.

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