top 97 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 299 points 7 months ago (7 children)

This is just their way of saying they want state sponsored backdoors into all private home networks.

  • source
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 132 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Or, guess what, the next thing will be that all new domestically produced routers will require ID verification before they'll connect.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 42 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Please drink verification can

    Side note: I thought that meme was from idiocracy, but apparently it's actually from a 4chan greentext and I had made a false memory of it being in the movie 😅

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 188 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    … does America even manufacture routers?

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 128 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    We don't lol

    Electronics manufacture of any kind has been heavily outsourced since at least 1995.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It depends on their version the fcc is considering "manufactured". If they mean it in a literal sense, there's pretty much just starlink. If they mean it can be an American company but put together overseas then there's plenty, like Netgear and Linksys.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 117 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    If foreign made routers pose a severe cybersecurity risk then why would you let the current ones on the market stay? If they were truly a problem you'd remove them from the market, not grandfather them.

    But like everything with this capricious administration the real reason they're doing this is probably because someone greased their palms.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 89 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Awesome. So what used to be a $50 router is about to be a $150 router. Great.

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    $150 will get you a mini PC that you can run OPNsense on. Hopefully they don't ban WiFi access points next.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago* (6 children)

    there is not much wifi access points that are not routers at the same time and i doubt that said regulation would make such a minor a distinction.

    also keep in mind that the news articles are specifically talking about tp-link products.

    unfortunately we can only guess, because only official document i have found is as vague as the news reports.

    https://www.fcc.gov/supplychain/coveredlist

    Routers^ produced in a foreign country, except routers which have been granted a Conditional Approval by DoW or DHS.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Access points and routers are usually separate once you get away from the consumer grade stuff. The people that run OPNsense at home often use MikroTik or Ubiquiti access points.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    i don't think there is single mikrotik that can't function as a router. the fact you can configure them as software bridge does not change that.

    the rest answered here:

    there are some but they are definitely in the minority. also this regulation is focused on home and soho devices, it specifically mentiones tp-link, which is really not enterprise brand.

    also the regulation from what i found is so vague, that i suspect that for the author router equals to “that white box with antenna sitting on my table” and is very likely they have no clue about difference between l2 and l3 layer and what router actually is.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    There are. Just need to shop in the business side of the store and not consumer. At worst pro-sumer.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    there are some but they are definitely in the minority. also this regulation is focused on home and soho devices, it specifically mentiones tp-link, which is really not enterprise brand.

    also the regulation from what i found is so vague, that i suspect that for the author router equals to "that white box with antenna sitting on my table" and is very likely they have no clue about difference between l2 and l3 layer and what router actually is.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    You're being pretty stubborn about your positions but you're misinformed/ignorant.

    There are SO many Wi-Fi access points that aren't routers, but a combo router is what most home users buy or get from their ISP. So that's what you think is "most" when in reality the consumer market is dwarfed by commercial.

    TP-Link has Omada which is not as enterprise as CISCO but it definitely supports small and medium sized businesses, which are at the greatest risk to vulnerabilities due to low IT department skills.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 86 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Conditional approvals - it's a bribe scheme. Companies can ask for exceptions. Sure they wouldn't Grease any palms...

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    They bulit the bribe into the law: "Producers of consumer-grade routers that receive Conditional Approval from DoW or DHS can continue to receive FCC equipment authorizations. Interested applicants are encouraged to submit applications to conditional-approvals@fcc.gov."

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 76 points 7 months ago (16 children)

    The excuse that it's for security reasons just immediately falls apart when you get to this part of the article:

    The notice from the FCC states that companies can apply for conditional approval for new products from the Department of War or the Department of Homeland Security. However, that requires the businesses to provide a plan for shifting at least some of their manufacturing to the US in order to receive that conditional approval.

    So it's fine to supposedly threaten national security if you do some more manufacturing in the US? Uh-huh. How does that balance out exactly?

  • source
  • hideshow 16 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    I hate to say anything that would defend any of this, but cheap Chinese routers are very prone to security issues. There's a guy that has a youtube channel built arond taking apart and reverse engineering all kids of electroncis. He's found some pretty bad stuff in generic routers, static logins, telemetry sent home, remote executable code in the admin portal while not logged in.

    I agree there's a lot more here they hope to gain, and that those gains are their primary objective, but there are some real issues from consumer network electronics.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago*

    That may be true and is certainly a well known concern …. Yet given the US government’s recent history, I have a hard time believing much of what they say

    Cheap Chinese routers as a risk being true doesn’t prevent it from also being true that the current us administration is full of shit and likely more concerned about enriching someone connected to them, or tilt at windmills

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

    There's better ways to do it then, EU don't have that problem for example, and we buy plenty from China.

    We just have safety and security standards enshrined into law, and don't deal with anyone that doesn't agree to follow them.

    It's why some products have the C€ symbol on them, which is "this has been imported, and meets all legal requirement", and all shops are not allowed to sell anything without that cert if imported.

    (Though this don't apply to direct-to-consumer delivery from other nations, so it's not bulletproof)

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    That's kinda what's going on. They're pulling the FCC logo and making it illegal to resell without authorization. Hopefully, (but not assuredly) part of that authorization will be to make sure they comply with security.

    Though I'm absolutely certain those 'agreements' cost a pretty penny and it's lining someone's pocket as well.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Ah but the C€ don't require you to manufacture some or all parts in the country though, or to pay a fee for the courtesy of dodging the law

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    If I read this right it goes beyond the cheap no-name Chinese stuff that we hopefully all know to avoid by now. This would prevent US companies from outsourcing manufacture to foreign countries, which pretty much all companies do at this point

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    That would keep routers.ca from reselling Temu routers, net win.

    I just hope that part of this doesn't include mandatory backdoors for US agencies. This might be the start of the great firewall of the US

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    if that ends up being the case, us linux nuts can start making and selling our own routers!

    Side Hustle!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    In the Age of Technology and AI, it does make sense to have any manufacturing operations in house than overseas. Ofc if there were countries we could trust that would be onpar as well, but the U.S. pretty much shit the bed on alliances.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago*

    Sounds like it's just a modern version of Indulgences to me.

    You have all sinned against God America, but if you pay the donation to the church government then you will be given access to heaven America

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 57 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    The only explanation that makes sense to me is that this is a law to:

    1. get bribes or favors from telecom equipment manufacturers.
    2. Create a framework to force backdoors into consumer equipment.
    3. Force users to use ISP provided equipment.
  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 42 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Even more isolationism. Knowing how the usa works, they discovered the equipment was set up for spying on their people and they want all of that "spying on their own people" power for themselves.

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    they want all of that “spying on their own people” power for themselves.

    My assumption as well, after after the video release in the Guthrie case, we know objectively that every device with a microphone or camera and a wireless connection is spying on us and feeding the data to the US government without a warrant too.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Can you link to the evidence from the Guthrie case?

    I’ve always figured it was theoretically possible. Interested in any cases of it in the wild.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Here's one source: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/investigators-wrangled-video-nancy-guthries-google-nest-camera-backend-rcna258460

    I'm 100% sure it was Kash's call, and he was just too stupid to realize what the FBI was inadvertently admitting to by releasing this footage.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Thank you, that’s fascinating. Not exactly aa egregious as a smart phone constantly sending out mic and cam data. But it’s nonetheless interesting Kash is being so open about it. Comes across to me as marketing the idea to the public that “if you let us and corporate America spy on you, we will keep you safe”.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 41 points 7 months ago

    Force consumers into US made, AI-laden, crappy hardware full of backdoors for the regime.

  • source
  • [–] 38 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    I can understand the FTC being involved because trade. But the FCC? Maybe regulatory authority over WiFi? But this seems like massive over reach.

    Remember when conservatives claimed to support smaller government?

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago

    I mean... "Small government" Republicans were always demonstrably lying, as far back as any of them have been alive. Every one of them just wanted to shift money from things that support people to the pockets of their donors.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 38 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Gold colored Trump Router incoming

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Dude don’t give them ideas, I live here

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 74 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    This only applies to routers.

    It's not widely known outside the ham radio community, but part of the 2.4GHz wifi band overlaps the 13cm amateur radio band. If you turn off 5GHz wifi and lock the 2.4GHz AP to Channel 1, it qualifies as a ham radio, and can be sold as a ham radio instead of an AP/Router. You do need a ham radio license to operate it as a Ham AP, but you do not need a license to buy a Ham AP.

    If the end user wants to turn on 5GHz after the fact, there is not a damn thing the FCC can do about it.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] [S] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    That deals with the need for a WiFi access point, but not the main router functionality. Another approach would be a low-power PC running OPNsense or PFsense with a WiFi card repurposed as an access point. Or, if the new policy concerns only routers and not access points, a PC for the router plus a dedicated WiFi access point (some device that is not capable of being a router).

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    But you can't run encryption on it. So that means no WEP, no WPA, no SSL, TLS, VPN, etc.

    So yes, while you could run your own wireless access point, it doesn't solve the main requirement for most people which is privacy.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 35 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    You aren't understanding my point.

    My point is that you can continue to import and sell the exact same physical device, just with a little change in marketing, and possibly software.

    My point is this: Once you have acquired the device, there is fuck all the FCC can do about you converting your "ham radio" back into a consumer-grade router.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    This is technically not true, the FCC can and does enforce spectrum usage rules. Whether they will expend resources chasing down your router or your unlicensed GMRS is another matter.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 35 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Only US allowed to spy on it's denizens!!1

    People not being sure what their router is actually doing is the issue. Instead of hoping for local manufactoring why not mandate against black box software running on the router? Mandate routers come with schematics like all electronics used to do? Promote computer literacy while you're at it.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago

    A nice thought. But the Great Unwashed Masses do not care. They want a Quick Start Guide that just says "Plug it in" and no other steps required. They want the black box because they don't want to learn and understand.

    And that attitude is less about the oligarchy and a lot more about all lazy people.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    Sorry, are you expecting the government, which is owned and controlled by the ruling class, to make legal changes which would go against their own interests? Haven't you been paying attention?

    If you want change, there's only one way for us to get it, and it's through a social revolution.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 32 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Consumer grade.

    Because if they try and ban cisco they'll collapse

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    First routers, then foreign operating systems, then cars…

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 51 points 7 months ago*

    WHAT

    I am really fucking glad I recently bought a high-end router, holy shit

    FUUUUUUUUCK

  • source
  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Unintentionally shutting down ai data centers. Lol, we know this will only be selectively enforced!

  • source
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Well it does say consumer-grade. Not sure what the reasoning there is, as backdoors in enterprise equipment would be much worse for national security

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Producers of consumer-grade routers that receive Conditional Approval from DoW or DHS can continue to receive FCC equipment authorizations. Interested applicants are encouraged to submit applications to conditional-approvals@fcc.gov

    A very speculative, cynical interpretation: something of value will be exchanged for the privilege of conditional approval.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Enterprise grade equipment comes with entire teams dedicated to securing it, with various overlapping services intended to identify and mitigate vulnerabilities. Along with enterprise level agreements around usage and support.

    Consumer grade is just fire and forget, you're on your own.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›
    25 comments in c/usa@lemmy.ml view that post
    1 comment in c/usa@midwest.social view that post