“This is how we should order our lives together,” he said. “And frankly, yes, we are going to impose it upon you. If you don’t like it, I’m sorry, but this is good and right and just if it lines up with God’s standards, and I am going to enforce my morality on you in as much as our morality is God’s morality.”

“You should always check yourselves,” he continued. “Do I believe what God believes? Am I defending what God says is good?”

“And if it is, then you should have the courage to say, ‘This is how we’re going to run our town, this is how we’re going to run our county, this is how we’re going to run our state, and this is how we should run the United States of America by legislating the morality that we can find in the Bible.'”

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[+] 130 points 7 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    I remember a particular asshat on DP forums that would try to get me booted all the time, and always crying that there is no such thing as xtian Shariah Law and that calling xtianists talibangelicals was so very unfair and so mean, and oh my god, the civility of it all!

    The xtianists definitely have Shariah Law even if, sure, they don't call it that, duh.

    Other than the days they worship and a few other differences about ritual and so on, explain the difference between backward dumbasses of the fundamentalist stripe of either of these Abrahamic religions?

    Both groups ache to subjugate women and murder infidels and gays, etc.

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  • [–] 62 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    If they followed the teachings of Jesus I might not mind so much.

    — an atheist

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, I'm not religious but I know enough to know "don't be a dick to immigrants/foreigners/travelers" is arguably one of the most consistent messages in the Bible and they've definitely pretty well screwed the pooch on that one.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    That love thy neighbor guy must have really hated the minorities, women, gays, and trans. Thats great for me i wont double check or anything.

    -someone who never read the Bible and probably cant read in first place

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  • [–] 55 points 7 months ago

    Y'all Qaeda.

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  • [–] 54 points 7 months ago

    I have rarely seen a nation further from "christian values" than the United States at this moment.

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  • [–] 140 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    You mean their made up fake Christian values. If an actual Christian saw what these creeps consider Christian values, they'd be very upset. Pretty sure infidelity, bribery, cheating, fraud, name calling, mockery, gambling, false worship, casting out of strangers and all the rest is exactly contradictory to the book they claim to hold in reverence.

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  • [–] 46 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    All Christian values are made up, bruh. But I get your point.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago

    No, there are.

    The "teachings of Jesus" seem just fine: stuff like love thy neighbour no matter what (aka don't hate minorities), let the one without sins throw rocks first (aka don't judge), throwing a tantrum at money changers (aka communist).

    If only Christians looked up to the one and only character they literally believe is God in human form and try following his actions.

    But alas, those Christians are "Christians", and most know more abot the teachings of Thomas Aquinas than Jesus Christ.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    At what point is something considered an entirely different belief system though?

    Part of why there are so many different sects of Christianity is because belief systems can differ quite a lot on what the focus is for followers of the faith.

    Even Mormons are considered Christian, but many Christians would put them in their own category since they have an entirely different holy book that they follow.

    Maybe it comes back to the word for ‘Christian’ being this less meaningful, all encompassing, definition. In which case, I feel there’s an argument to be made that having at least some other way to show distinction matters, whether that’s a new word or phrase entirely.

    For the sake of conversation though, I feel there is some utility in using the word we are already familiar with, in this case ‘Christian’, and making a compelling definition, in the context of the conversation, based on the values echoed in the text. I feel that we can still hold the general understanding that this is a narrow definition, but it’s one made based on those values that we may want to see encouraged.

    TL;DR: It’s difficult to have a conversation about any group of people that is made up of a wide assortment of people from different walks of life.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    That's really only true for undefined terms. If I'm scientifically determined to be diabetic, but I say I'm not because I define "diabetes" differently than the medical community at-large, my pancreas still can't produce insulin. Christians, by every accepted definition, follow the teachings of "Jesus Christ," hence the name. If any can demonstrably be shown to go directly against those teachings, I'd say the argument that they're not Christian is pretty solid. It's only when the claims are defined in non-universally accepted terms that the fallacy exists. Like, "No true Scotsman brushes their bottom teeth before brushing their top teeth," is obviously not a true statement, but "All true Scotsman have a non-zero amount of 'Scottish blood,'" is acceptably true as long as "amount of Scottish blood" is actually a determinable value.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    As opposed to the traditional catholic values of murdering brown people, burning apostates, progroming Jews, policing every aspect of sexuality, and most importantly enforcing a rigid belief in social hierarchy and the divine rights of nobility?

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  • [–] 91 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Christian? They are a fucking pedophilic ring.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I mean, the Bible doesn't say it's against that.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago*

    The ironic part is that the one section of the new testament they claim is against gay people is very likely condemning the act of sleeping with child slaves, using a Greek word which has been otherwise lost to history.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    So someone else commented a long time ago that in america the age of marriage was 7 years old because thats how old someone is when they truly understand what sin is per the Bible.

    No idea if true but seems legit ppl would use the Bible to promote this behavior.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    In times like this we must remember what the Bible says about things like marriage: One man, one hundred women.

    Also, selling daughters, because they're property! Like slavery, which is also totally fine.

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago
    [–] 30 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    our morality is God’s morality

    That's because you invented your idea of God to match your own prejudices.

    Do I believe what God believes?

    Humans have beliefs and opinions. If you think that which creates and sustains the universe has beliefs and opinions, it strongly suggests you're overly likening it to yourself. Once again, you're projecting your own prejudices.

    Just another case of assholes inventing God in their own image and claiming it went the other way round.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    If these guys were going to impose, say, the Quaker interpretation of "the" Bible on America, I might not mind quite so much.

    But no, these jerkoffs always take up the most ridiculously hateful and tyrannical version of xtianity that conservatives can find. It's the most hateful version they can find to validate all their preconceived notions of morality.

    Kinda weird how that works - people with a decent set of morality join up with things like Quakers, or the UUs, or something like that.

    People with extreme conservative views join up with the militaristic groups that want to back Israel in order to bring about their end of the world fantasies.

    It's almost like they treat "the" bible like a Rorschach blot, and that's if they've even read the thing.

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    When is someone going to get fed up enough and [ Removed by Reddit ] ?

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    I think you're confused about which website we're on. We're on Lemmy here. This is a higher class of website. So, the question you should be asking:

    When is someone going to get fed up enough and [ Removed by Lemmy ] ?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    I expect it'll be when one of the writing class gets chronic pain or a death sentence diagnosis that could've been prevented if healthcare didn't suck.

    Not unlike Luigi is accused, except he's innocent.

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  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago

    "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Denis Diderot

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  • [+] 26 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    Unironically how these people read that list:

    Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Read: the poor in spirit die first.

    Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.

    Read: We will kill those who mourn

    Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the Earth.

    Read: Once the greenhouse gasses are no longer tolerable. We going to Mars, suckas

    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.

    Read: killing those who oppose me is what is righteous.

    Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

    Read: we don't even bully the Mexican guy on our squad, he's pretty cool guy

    Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

    Read: white

    Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the Sons of God.

    Read: kill those who oppose you until there is no more opposition and you will become Jesus.

    Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Read: God needs me to kill ANTIFA

    Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

    Read: you have my permission to kill the infidels.

    Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you...

    Read: don't question your mission. You and all your pedo friends can fuck teenage girls or something, after you die for this cause.

    ...yep. those are them alright.

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  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    What did Jesus have to say about immigrants?

    What did Jesus have to say about taxes?

    What did Jesus have to say about retaliation?

    What did Jesus have to say about money and what should be done with it if you have it?

    What did Jesus say you should do with everything you own?

    Jesus was a Communist. Own nothing. Share everything.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, my question for this was "WHAT Christian values", because if they were going to push the fundamental teachings of Jesus I'd actually be ok with that. What they really mean though, is to hang crosses and Bibles in every school and then watch the government speed run breaking every one of the 10 commandments, never mind the teachings of JC.

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    This guy is an Atheist, running a scam, as are MOST religious leaders. They absolutely do not believe in God, or any kind of an afterlife, because if they did, they would NEVER support the obviously heinous behavior of MAGA. They would be too defensive of their immortal soul. The fact that they are jumping in with full support of MAGA's obviously, cartoonishly evil agenda, proves who they really are.

    Religion is a business, and should be treated like one. There is nothing in the Constitution that gives churches some special benefit. In fact, it literally says that the government should not be supporting any religion. So why does the government support religion by making it tax exempt?

    EVERY church should be investigated, and most should be abolished as illegal tax avoidance scams. The rest should be heavily taxed, with the tax revenue earmarked for the public good, not military or law enforcement in any way. It should ALL go into the fund for Social Safety Nets, including universal health care.

    And it should also be strongly regulated, with their donations being public record. Tithes should be heavily regulated, and the money fully accounted for. All churches should be operated with the same legal obligations as any other business.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I am not so sure about this. At the top, fundamentalist have convinced themselves that God can choose champions who are above all of his rules. They are chosen, they can do whatever the fuck they want. Rest of the people, of course, needs to abide to "God's rules".
    At the bottom, it's kept simple: anything and anyone they dislike is anti-christian (that can be stretched to no end).

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    100% - I grew up in this.

    They live in “feelings”. You go to church, you raise your hands during worship and there’s a collective weirdness where you “feel” like you’re “in gods presence”.

    Because of this feeling they get to be the worst humans imaginable because every Sunday they get the feel goods and Jesus loves them and they literally do not believe they’ve done anything wrong because of it.

    Horrible horrible people.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Nonsense, nobody with the intelligence to start a church and convince people to join it, believes that kind of nonsense. It is LITERALLY like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, and INSISTING that our entire society should be configured to follow the rules that Santa Claus and/or the Easter Bunny demands. And who interprets those demands? Those same religious leaders. And surprise! Those demands include doing everything those leaders tell you to do without hesitation or question, and giving them as much money as you can possibly come up with.

    It's a scam, and they KNOW it's a scam. NONE of them believe in God, or they would be absolutely certain that they are destined for Hell. Or maybe they do, and they know that since they're going to Hell anyway, they might as well take advantage of the fun on Earth, before they go to their eternity of getting poked in the ass with a pitchfork, or whatever their weird cult believes.

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    And the head of their entire structure has never been religious and, in fact, matches their description of the anti-Christ.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I'm not christian, but I think my moral values of not committing heinous acts are superior to the Christian values of those acts being ok if you ask sky daddy forgiveness afterwards.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Raised Catholic, currently atheist:

    That's not really what is said in the bible about forgiveness - it's very clearly stated that god knows your heart and there is no forgiveness without true penance. That's not "say 5 hail mary's and 3 lord's prayer and you're all good", that's a run-off effect of the middle-ages "indulgences", where someone could be "forgiven" their sins for a payment to the church.

    Actual forgiveness as described several times in the bible explicitly requires the confessor to be truly sorry for their sin (contrition), and a real commitment to do better in the future. This is a fairly concise summary of what the bible says about contrition, confession and forgiveness: https://biblehub.com/topical/c/contrition.htm

    TL;DR - There is no forgiveness if you are not truly sorry and if you don't do your best to be better.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Ah, I see you're trying to crusade, please indulge me: is correcting somebody who's being facetious and antichristian worth your time while you could be doing something to fight white christofascism? Or are you providing them smokescreen?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Not sure how you got that from my comment, or why you decided to be snarky in your reply, but whatever. My statement is that even in their dogma, they're doing it wrong and if any of it were true, they'd be going to hell regardless.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    How are they going to impose Christian values if they don't know what those are?

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  • [–] 40 points 7 months ago

    Your god deserves to be skull fucked to death. Along with your neo nazi Christian subsect.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    And frankly, yes, we are going to impose it upon you

    No, you fucking ARE NOT.

    this is how we should run the United States of America by legislating the morality that we can find in the Bible.

    You can go ahead and go fuck yourself pal, because this is a secular nation. Besides, the "morality" in the Bible is a horrible model for morality, sorry.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago

    The "I'm not homophobic! You can do what you want but just dont force it on me or my kids" crowd, everybody.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago

    You mean all the screeching about "they're forcing the gay/trans agenda down our throats" was projection this entire time?

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago

    These people either rape children, or support people that do.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, we know! The Christian Right is dead-set on rolling back the rights of the women, same-sex couples, LGBTQ kids, and other minority groups. Think I'm exaggerating? Think of the Dobbs decision.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago

    "the morality we can find in the Bible"

    It's ok to own human beings as property: "As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you and from their families who are with you who have been born in your land; they may be your property. You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property."

    Its ok to rape young girls (is God in the Epstein files?): "So now, kill all the boys, as well as every woman who has had relations with a man, but spare for yourselves every girl who has never had relations with a man."

    It's ok to kill babies: Thus says the Lord of hosts: "I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and attack Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”

    When David had an affair and had the woman's husband killed, God killed his baby and had his wives publically raped: "Thus says the Lord: I will raise up trouble against you from within your own house, and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel and in broad daylight.”

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    There is no God it's only you bro

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago

    Start with Trump I guess? Good luck forcing people into your lifestyle when your own people don't even follow it.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Emphasis mine.

    Christian nationalists cannot fucking stand that you don’t share in and support their delusion, that you’re not subject to their little club, and that their power dynamics cannot legally bind you. They’re crazy because their beliefs do not align with reality, and the founders knew that they are crazy. It was the first thing they thought of when first amending the constitution after our government was formed.

    It will never be enough for them to simply practice their own religion for themselves, their own families, or even their own associations. The flock must grow, by coercion if possible, by force if necessary. The great invisible hand of the “savior” reaches from beyond the grave through the raised arms of voting supplicants, cloaked in peace while sowing righteous fury and stark judgement with starry-eyed innocence and empty smiles.

    How funny is it that infinite, omnipotent, unknowable God happens to want exactly the same things as rich white American men? “God” is just convenient excuse for stripping away rights and projecting ego.

    Here’s something that’s really hard to believe: That this bullshit still works.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Christian nationalists cannot fucking stand that you don’t share in and support their delusion, that you’re not subject to their little club

    I truly love telling some xtianist trying to lecture me on how I should do things this:

    Your rules are for you, bro. They simply bear no relevance outside the context of xtianity.

    If you talk to some of these people, many don't even seem to have any kind of understanding that there are millions of people that don't accept their framing. Like, at all.

    Telling them that trying to cite "the bible" at someone like me has as much of an effect as citing Harry Potter or Dianetics makes them just about glitch out. They want to find the right bit of their "scripture" that could be used like a spell on others and make them into another drone at their church. Ain't going to happen: I don't value your text like you do.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    It's all a giant psychological tangled mess. They must force it on others, otherwise the truth of their delusion keeps punching them in the face day after day. The cognitive dissonance of knowing you are believing in a fairy tale, deep deep down, is overwhelming and expresses itself in the lashing out against the world we see all the fucking time. They hate freedom because they are to cowardly to enjoy it themselves.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago

    by legislating the morality that we can find in the Bible

    "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor" Mark 10:21

    "You cannot serve both God and money." Luke 16:13

    "If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also." Matthew 5:39

    "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you," Luke 6:27

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Makes sense. We all remember the part of the Bible where literally Satan tempted Jesus with authority over all the kingdoms of the earth if he would only bow down, and Jesus said "Cool, now I can make everyone live the way they should. You got yourself a deal, Satan."

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    You think you know what god believes? Always trying to impose it on others, even if they've told you no. Sounds like god derangement syndrome!

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago*

    1797 - Treaty of Tripoli. Unanimously voted on and signed by the 2nd President of the United States, John Adams:

    "[t]he Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."[4] 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

    Christo-fascists go "Nuh unh! It's not in the Arabic text!"

    To which the correct answer is "Yes, it's the ENGLISH version that was voted on and signed by President Adams."

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

    It will be a small, hollow victory.

    But I hope I can hear the MAGAs cry, when they find out "Christian Nation" means they can't get booze and pr0n anymore.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I once trained a guy who worked with some of the Saudi royals. He was really cool, wasn't Saudi (Jordanian, the poor Arabs without oil), and wasn't a practicing Muslim. The subject of alcohol came up, and I said that it was illegal over there, and he said "Not for the royal family. They have rooms filled with cases of booze. I've seen it, often. The people can't drink, but the royal family definitely does."

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    If the house of saud could maintain their power without the clerics you bet your ass they would. The clerics are an allied power who could turn against them if they got out of line.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    They both like the control that each other offers. It's a good, perfectly complementary partnership...for them.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    In theory, but the house wants to live above religious laws and the clerics want no limits. They're allied because neither alone can have all they want, but both do resent the other forcing them to only have some of what they want

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    How about fuck you? I dont need your book to be a better person than you.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    US religious fundamentalism is no different to any other religious fundamentalism. None of those people can see the irony in their hatred in pursuit of a love that they, and only they can define.

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  • This ghoulish misanthrope can't comprehend that god didn't make us all different so we could all live the same cookie cutter life

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    If it’s “love thy neighbor,” then great.

    If it’s “be bigoted pieces of shit,” then I’m sorry, but hail Satan— and I meant “sorry” as earnestly as you meant it, fucko.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Christian mental gymnastics turns bigotry into being loving. Since Christians do not comprehend love without fear and shame, they are unable to actually be loving without hurting others.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    I feel like that one line from Kingsman (the good one, right before the fight scene in the church) is appropriate here.

    Harry Hart: [to bigoted church lady] I'm a Catholic whore, currently enjoying congress out of wedlock with my black Jewish boyfriend who works at a military abortion clinic. So, hail Satan, and have a lovely afternoon, madam.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    Sharia Law then.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The unfortunate downside to religious freedom is anyone can turn their insane values into a cult and spread it largely uninhibited.

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