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[–] 45 points 8 months ago (2 children)

The evidence that ketogenic diet might help with schizophrenia symptom remission comes from two case reports that Palmer published in Schizophrenia Research in 2019. When discussing them, Palmer was quick to emphasise that “yes, it’s only two”, and that “case reports don’t prove anything. They’re not controlled. They come with tremendous amounts of bias.” But, Palmer noted, that can be important for generating hypotheses about what treatments might work. Palmer thought it was valuable to publish these case reports because remission of schizophrenia symptoms is incredibly rare.

Two case studies! The scientist quoted knows that it means nothing! Don't read one article that might show something that confirms your bias and go "this is real."

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Nothing this snake oil salesman says is ever backed by any evidence.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago

    someone has been brain damaged by cocaine and heroin should not be giving medical advice, and likely a parasirtic infection in his youth(before his divorce)

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago

    Has anyone found evidence behind the claim that RJK Jr can integrate novel information?

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Unless I'm mistaken he doesn't even make money off the keto diet, this is just stupidity for stupidity's sake

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    It’s more insidious than that. In general, meat forward diet influencers are entry points into the conservative pipeline. You start out seeking to improve your health and very quickly end up exposed to jordan peterson types who will ominously warn you of the “normalization of inadequacy” among the general public and suggest progressively more conservative content as a pathway to achieving your full potential.

    So in essence, though he may not seem to directly benefit, by highlighting these types of diets he knows plenty of people will hop on youtube or whatever and get algorithm’d right back into the broader MAHA/MAGA sphere

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago

    the gym bros, culture is also pretty conservatives, they follow UFC, and by extension roegan, and other pseudointellectual. J peterson is a fully paid shill for Putin, ever since he went to russia to GET a coma from them.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Why would literally anyone listen to this coke-fried man whose had actual fucking worms crawling around in his actual fucking brain?

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    No evidence behind most of what this walking crime against humanity says

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I give him one thing that keto diet works for dropping weight but it’s hard to sustain

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    It's a brutally boring diet after awhile.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Look at the last year.

    Now imagine permanently living in a conservative America.

    That's a reality we're actually facing because Americans can't get their shit together.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago (15 children)

    Who would have guessed you could cure mental illness back thousands of years by eating exclusively chicken.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago* (14 children)

    That's a carnivore diet. A ketogenic diet can be vegan.

    Not that I'm recommending a vegan keto diet, I'm just saying you got your diets mixed up.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    After some health issues I did a whole food plant based, no SOS, Keto diet. My cholesterol ratio went to 1.08 without meds, I lost a ton of weight, was full of energy and got fit as fuck, and apparently I was "full of color" because I was now eating a ton of vitamins and nutrients. Great diet but viciously difficult to keep up with unless you have a peraonal chef.

    Needless to say, I am no longer that strict.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I've also done several stints of mostly veg with some fish keto, and every time it's like magic. Feel great, clear head, drop 5kg over a couple weeks. It's always back-to-back social things or travel that break it. If I lived in a bubble or some keto-only hippie commune, I'd be shredded like a block of cheddar.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    FIBER does slow down the absorption of fat, cholesterol and sugar. i

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    Can confirm. I've been on and off keto for years, eating fats and fiber really makes you hungry a lot less often. It helps facilitate intermittent fasting if that's something you're into.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    When has RFK ever suggested a vegan diet? The article referenced a "red meat, whole milk and animal fats" diet. So my mistake I should have said steak not chicken.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (3 children)

    Whole milk has more sugar than it has fat.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Don’t those who experience seizures eat a keto diet?

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    It's a treatment for people who don't respond to medicine.

    https://www.epilepsy.com/treatment/dietary-therapies/ketogenic-diet

    It's pretty interesting! I listened to a medical history podcast about keto years ago.

    https://maximumfun.org/transcripts/sawbones/transcript-sawbones-ketogenic-diet Apparently the diet started as a treatment for epilepsy. Way back in history people noticed that if you were inclined to have seizures and were starving, you had fewer seizures. In the early 1900s there were experiments to figure out how to reduce seizures without, you know, starving them to death. keto!

    I wouldn't be shocked if keto had some kind of effect on the brain that helps with schizophrenia, but there's no real info yet.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

    There are an increasing number of case studies for Bipolar Disorder, as well as pilot trials. If you're interested, there is a YouTube channel called Keto Bipolar with interviews that you could take a look at.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Kennedy Jr’s statement probably referred to the Harvard psychiatrist Dr Christopher Palmer, who said he has “never once used the word ‘cure’ in my work. I have never claimed to have cured any mental illness, including schizophrenia,” but added: “I have talked about ketogenic diet being a very powerful treatment, even to the point of inducing remission of symptoms of schizophrenia.”

    RFK is a crackpot moving way too fast. At the same time, The Guardian is equally misleading in its headline here.

    There IS evidence that Schizophrenia, like a lot of other disorders (epilepsy, Alzheimer's, Bipolar, etc) have links to the microbiome. Here is a paper analyzing various studies into keto as an effective treatment for schizophrenia. It's not perfect, it's not for everyone, and more research is needed.

    Technically the Guardian is correct when they say there is no evidence that keto can "cure", but I find it very misleading when there is a decent bit of evidence that it is an effective treatment.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I've suspected for a while now that a good chunk of common health issues might be caused by malnutrition. Like energy needs are being met and/or exceeded, but not necessarily the case for each nutrient.

    Like I've started to recognize when I'm protein deficient. I get a headache and general unwell feeling. I'll have an appetite for things with protein but it doesn't just feel like hunger.

    And personally, if I'm feeling depressed and unmotivated to do anything, even what's usually fun, I can resolve that with a vitamin b-complex supplement (usually I take vitamin D and K2 with it, so those could be playing a role), and if that doesn't have me feeling better (as in normal, not just "less depressed") within 15 minutes or so, I also take a magnesium supplement. This may or may not work for anyone else (it requires that your depression be caused by b and/or magnesium deficiency), but it has consistently worked for me since 2020, when it helped get over the exhaustion that might have been long covid.

    Micronutrients are essential for many different body functions and I think it's easy to miss some if you don't have a lot of variety in your regular diet, especially if you mostly eat processed stuff where the process could inadvertently remove or change the nutrients into something we can't absorb.

    I agree that one's biome can also play a big role, though I think nutrient intake (both what you consume and what you absorb) and gut biome health can end up in a vicious cycle because those microbes also need the right nutrients to stay healthy and can be exposed to substances that are fine for us but toxic to them. I haven't looked in a while, but this was my objection to all the studies that "showed" glyphosate was safe, as the ones I saw were mostly about how it doesn't react with any of our own bio-processes, but no information about whether that's the same for the bacteria we have a symbiotic relationship with.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah I think that's an important line to walk: the conversation between the body and the mind. A lot of people in my life seem to really struggle with body awareness. They wait for the signals from their bodies to reach a certain threshold before paying attention. It's like waiting until your car's low fuel light is flashing before starting to look for a gas station.

    On the other hand, you can go too far... But maybe that's a good thing? The placebo effect is real. Any time I take supplements, especially when the science is mixed, I wonder whether the supplement actually works or if it's just placebo. But at the end of the day I don't care which. I still take my vitamin D in the winter, my vitamin C when I start to feel a cold coming on.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Yeah, I think at this point I do get the placebo effect first, pretty much immediately after taking the vitamin b-complex, as it works faster than I'd expect my body to really access those nutrients (though it is water soluable, so maybe it does start getting absorbed immediately), and I have had times where it feels like just the B is going to do the trick but then the tiredness returns a few mins later and I add the magnesium.

    My approach to supplements in general is an assumption that I generally get most of what I need from my diet (which is better these days than it used to be earlier in my adult life), but that I'm probably not meeting all the needs consistently, so I'll supplement it occasionally, either with a dose of multivitamin when I'm not feeling like anything is missing or with specific ones if I'm experiencing potential deficiency symptoms. I don't want to supplement into overload, which can be as bad or worse than deficiency.

    Also gotta watch out for the scam supplements, or ones suggested based on single properties without considering other consequences of them.

    Eg, a little while ago, I bought some bromelain on a whim after seeing a claim it could dissolve eye floaters. Before taking one, I realized I had acted too quickly in buying them and did more reading and found out that even if it can get past the blood brain barrier and into the eyes (which is dubious at best), there's nothing to stop it from dissolving other proteins inside the eyes, ones that aren't just minor annoyances (speaking about my own situation, I understand floaters can get much worse than just annoying), and end up hurting your vision.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Even beyond like actual facts and evidence proving this wrong, I have one fundamental question for all these nutcases making wild claims about diet: why the fuck would X diet do Y thing?

    Like what about eating more meat and fat & being in ketosis could possibly have any effect on schizophrenia, of all things.

    It doesn't even make sense on any basic level. Could there theoretically be some counterintuitive thing that would cause an effect? Maybe, sure. But come on - these wacky claims don't even pass the sniff test.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I do think it'd be interesting to do a real study on it. Keto can reduce seizures, and after study it might turn out the same mechanism of action that helps there helps with schizophrenia symptoms. I hope there's a more extensive study being planned out there.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago*

    The good news is there are studies being done!

    There is a lot of co-morbidity between Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, depression, and Schizoaffective disorder. Epilepsy might've been in this list as well. The research in this WRT to nutrition is known as Metabolic Psychiatry and the book that Dr Palmer has written is Brain Energy. It is a fascinating read. Other notable resources include Dr Georgia Ede, Dr. Bret Scher, and Dr. Iain Campbell.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    It just keeps the brain worms satiated and quiet for a brief moment.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    Bobby may himself be evidence that his diet actually causes mental disorders

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    He so close - it's not the Keto Diet, it's brain-worms from eating the roadkill.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    I'm keto and I don't have schizophrenia so it must be true.

    /s

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    "Experts, schmexperts. I'm on the salt and beef diet, and that cures everything!"

    -- "wellness" morons, probably

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    obviously false claim has no proof, wowzers. lol

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Isn't a keto diet dangerous without a prior check-up?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    No evidence behind RFK Jr’s claim

    Ima stop ya right there… heh

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Color me shocked!

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    There's a day coming when most Americans will have very limited access to real medicine. A plurality will have to depend on quackery and home remedies.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Fuck you, Bobby.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    There's plenty of evidence. The voices he hears all promised that it's true, and they say they're all doctors and wizards and wizard doctors.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    I have no expertise but found Dr Christopher Palmer's book interesting: https://brainenergy.com/

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    "RFK Jr’s claim keto diet can cure schizophrenia" But RFK jr is living proof that it's not true or he would no longer be schizo. Go away raw milk boy.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    I don't know what you're trying to say here

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  • 3 comments in c/publichealth@mander.xyz view that post
    [–] 3 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Kennedy Jr’s statement probably referred to the Harvard psychiatrist Dr Christopher Palmer, who said he has “never once used the word ‘cure’ in my work. I have never claimed to have cured any mental illness, including schizophrenia,” but added: “I have talked about ketogenic diet being a very powerful treatment, even to the point of inducing remission of symptoms of schizophrenia.”

    Of all the things to criticise RFK for, confusing the technical definition of "cure" and "treatment" seems like pedantry.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    When discussing them, Palmer was quick to emphasise that “yes, it’s only two”, and that “case reports don’t prove anything. They’re not controlled. They come with tremendous amounts of bias.” But, Palmer noted, that can be important for generating hypotheses about what treatments might work.

    Sounds like there is little to no actual evidence that this is even a possibly real treatment and requires significant further study. This is straight out of the author's mouth. Statements like RFK Jr made have real impact, and there may be a bunch of people about to stop their psych meds as a result of this.

    Palmer was clear that nobody should stop psychiatric medications without careful supervision.

    Too late

    While one of the patients in his study worked with her doctor to safely taper off her psychiatric medications, the other decided to stop all of them suddenly on her own. “Let me be clear, that was an unmitigated catastrophe for her. She became severely psychotic. She was hospitalized for over two months,” Palmer said. That patient continued her diet throughout her hospitalization, and had to go back on medication before tapering off safely.

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  • 1 comment in c/theguardian_us@ibbit.at view that post
    [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Experts schmexperts, what is years and years of studying something going to teach you? BobStankr432 had a video on YouTube that told him all he needs to know!

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