Shortly after a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officer shot and killed a woman in Minneapolis on Wednesday, city leaders began looking into whether the officer had violated state criminal law.

Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey said, “We collectively are going to do everything possible to get to the bottom of this, to get justice, and to make sure that there is an investigation that is conducted in full.” Police Chief Brian O’Hara followed up by saying that the state’s Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is “investigat[ing] whether any state laws within the state of Minnesota have been violated.”

If they conclude that state law has been violated, the question is: What next? Contrary to recent assertions from some federal officials, states can prosecute federal officers for violating state criminal laws, and there is precedent for that.

top 99 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 169 points 10 months ago (12 children)

"could" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

  • source
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 110 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    It's the same jurisdiction that put 4 cops in jail for murdering George Floyd. There's a good chance that AG Keith Ellison is looking into it

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 38 points 10 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 75 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    Even in the bizarro world where an arrest warrant or indictment is issued, ICE will close ranks around their brother who just got a notch on his belt. No state cops are gonna slug it out with the feds to make that arrest.

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 63 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Although you're probably right, part of me really hopes that's why Walz put the national guard on standby

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 53 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    That's the stated reason that Walz put the national guard on standby. He said he put them on standby and that he wants ice out of our state; the implication there being that ice can leave on their own or be escorted out. He's not running for reelection so he has no reason to hold back anymore. I have never seen him quite that clipped in a press release before. He is furious. We may have ice being forcibly deported by the MN national guard shortly here and that is going to get very interesting in a lot of ways

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    He’s not running for reelection so he has no reason to hold back anymore.

    i am not even an american, but i'd really like to live in a world where running for reelection would be the reason not to hold back.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago

    Yeah, running for office they need to seem bland enough to appeal to the most people. It's kind of a shitty system when you only see their true colors after they are done campaigning. Although, Walz at least has always been pretty transparent in that regard. He's always just been a small town highschool coach. He's not a political creature.

    I wish we could keep him in office. But in a way I am also glad he's getting out of politics because especially these past several years it has been clear how hard the job is on him. Him getting out of politics is going to be bad for us but good for him because he is a good person. Asking him to run again would feel like kicking a puppy. He's the only politician where I've ever felt like I needed to apologize to them for voting for them.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 19 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    I watched his speech and he doesn't actually say that he is putting them on standby to defend against ICE. Reading between the lines, he seems to be putting them on standby to be ready to quell protest so that Trump can't use the protests as an excuse to put federal troops in the area.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 22 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    What I got from the speech is the following in fairly quick sucession.

    1. We won't have minnesotans fighting minnesotans.
    2. The minnesota national guard are minnesotans; they are your friends and neighbors.
    3. The minnesota national guard has been put on standby.
    4. Ice is not wanted in minnesota and they need to leave.

    The fact that points 1 and 2 were said right next to each other says to me at least that the national guard isn't there for the protesters.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

    What made me think that is that he rattles off a whole list of state agencies that were being activated to deal with the incident, and then his next words are we do not need help from the federal government.

    Quell the protest was probably the wrong wording. But I think that the national guard is being used to ensure that the protests are controlled and don't escalate or turn to violence which would give the federal government an excuse to send troops..

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    A lot of those same agencies are also the same agencies you'd activate if you were getting ready to boot out ice too though. I guess only time will tell exactly what is going to happen. But Walz did seem like he regretted and learned from his response to the George Floyd protests. It seems likely to me that he may swing the other way this time.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    ...and then his next words are we do not need help from the federal government.

    And what are ICE agents? I haven't seen the interview, and your interpretation could well be correct, but it could as easily be, "We've had enough of federal agents entering our state and arresting and killing our citizens without warrants or due process." Frankly, no state needs that kind of help. We will see.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    Hey just gonna point out that the civil war nearly started some years early due to slave hunters kidnapping folks in Northern states. The only reason that didn't happen was largely due to luck and folks taking matters into their own hands to off slave hunters. I say this to make the point that this whole situation with ICE ain't that far off.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 58 points 10 months ago

    Could means fuck all. The word that needs to be used is will.
    "Minnesota WILL prosecute the ice shooter."
    When that is the title of an article then it means something. Until then it's all may, might, and could. Weak shit.

    The Gestapo is murdering people on the street. Public executions on the streets of the Nazied States of America.

  • source
  • [–] 35 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    Look what it took to get Chauvin prosecuted. If we want pigs to face justice, we have to speak at a volume they can hear us in their mansions.

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [+] -41 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Chauvin wasn't assaulted with what's legally considered a dangerous weapon. So this case would be much harder. Unprecedented, really.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 34 points 10 months ago*

    Chauvin wasn’t assaulted

    That's not what he claimed at the time. A big part of every cop-killer story is the allegation that the person they murdered prompted the killing. Chauvin insisted through his entire defense that Floyd lashed out at him in his final moments, right before he spontaneously died of a drug induced heart attack.

    We've got video clear as day of the ICE agent casually walking up to the car and plugging the woman in the face. This was a mother who'd just dropped her child off at daycare, not some marauding vehicular anti-ICE assassin. She was given seconds to respond to a command and butchered for failing to act fast enough.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago

    By the logic the government has tried to push on this murder, people should be able to shoot into the vehicles of ICE thugs when they try to drive through protest crowds. We've seen that on video plenty of times in the last year.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Not an american but seems like US' case law is very much precedented here. I don't have a source at hand but there has been at least a dozen similar cases all sided with the victims. Even official training of ICE explicitly says "do not stand in front of the vehicle ever".

    If there's no justice here then it's entirely on lack of will rather than law.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -4 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Every case people cite are civil lawsuits for excessive force. And people usually don't prevail, especially when an officer is actually in the process of being assaulted.

    At most, her family could get a settlement for damages for excessive force. But criminal charges are what would be pretty unprecedented.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    I think it's moot to discuss this without bringing up the actual law cases and I'm not going to lie - I'm a bit too lazy and this is too depressing for me to sacrifice my time for.

    My faith in US' justice system is not great though so you might very well be right.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 35 points 10 months ago

    Get that Nazi fuck!!!

  • source
  • [–] 27 points 10 months ago

    The only justice that happens in this country anymore is vigilante

  • source
  • [–] 24 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Trump can't pardon him

    Trump isn't supposed to be able to do a lotta shit the fascist fuckwit is actively doing. Those checks and balances are non-fucking-existant.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    Trump keeps getting away with shit on the federal level because no one is stopping him and people comply with his demands. Despite Trump repeatedly "pardoning" Tina Peters, the prison guards in Colorado are keeping her locked up and are ignoring him. Minnesota could do the same

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Oh my, what will happen?

    Will we reach across the aisle and let cooler heads prevail by letting the killer go free?

    Or will the killer learn first hand that having a badge doesn't mean he can kill random innocent people?

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    Do they have him in custody?

  • source
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    They all wear masks for situations like this. He will never be identified.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] 7 points 10 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    You're wrong about about what's causing the apathy and disinterest. It's not being caused by phones and tablets, social media addiction, or doomscrolling. Those are symptoms of the real problem.

    That 22 year old cashier is zoning out because that's their 2nd or 3rd job, and they're exhausted. Those folks who refuse to watch the video? Some of them simply can't, because they're burnt out from just trying to survive. Those cynical kids with no hope for the future? After 2 recessions and a pandemic, that's kept them out of the jobs market, I can't blame them.

    A lot of people are struggling to survive. Struggling to ensure they can keep a roof over their head, struggling to afford groceries, struggling to afford that car they need to get to the 2 or 3 jobs they work.

    The cost of living is ridiculous now, and wages are stagnant. A large amount of people are simply surviving. All their energy is going to getting their basic needs met, and not all are able to meet those needs. They can't spare the attention to care about the rest of the world, when they are worrying about which bill to pay and which can wait. Or how to keep that car running just a bit longer until they can get it fixed.

    Trump and his goons are absolutely taking advantage of this too. Don't fight back, or we'll make things worse. Argue with us and we'll take away that benefit you're using to survive. So you're absolutely right when you say something has to be done. And the sooner, the better. But understand that for those folks we are talking about, they won't be able to help. Not yet. Unfortunately, things will have to get worse before they are forced to act. And not "ICE is killing more people" worse. It'll be "I'm getting evicted, I can barely afford to eat, and a lot of people I know are the same."

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [+] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    I agree with you about the harms social media causes. It's not helping matters at all, and actively harms people. But so does alcohol. Drinking can relax people, make them feel numb and happy for a short while. Doesn't help them at all. But we don't point the finger at alcohol, we say it's a symptom of a larger problem. In this case I'm saying social media consumption is the same, just a symptom of a larger problem.

    And like alcohol, it doesn't actually help at all. It just takes a person's mind off their problems for a while. It lets them unplug and just mindlessly scroll Tiktok or Instagram. Say stupid shit on Twitter.

    Building community is an answer to this problem. Arguing on the internet is like yelling at the void, where speaking in person tends to make someone think more and be more mindful of what they say, since the repercussions are immediate and right on front of you. And it's just better for the person too, getting to feel that connection to other people.

    The problem though, is that it takes a lot more effort, time, and money to participate in community. The people I'm talking about, simply can't. They don't have that time, energy, or money. They can't afford to meet friends for dinner, even at each other's homes. They can't go meet friends at a nearby park because they're exhausted from work. They can't go hang out at a friend's place because of the time commitment. The couple of hours they might have at the end of the day is spent browsing simply because it's low energy and doesn't cost them anything more. It's the only thing that lets them unwind, or unplug, or blow off some steam.

    I think the answer is to have the community meet these people where they are. That's a huge undertaking though, which is probably why we haven't seen very much of it yet. But it's going to be sorely needed.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (7 children)

    Trump may not be able to pardon him but he can invade the state, take over the prison, have puppets do it for him, whatever. He's not bound by law anymore, he does whatever the fuck he wants and somehow all those dumb Americans just let him get away with everything.

  • source
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    The imperialism thing is nuts. He would absolutely send many millions to their death or into poverty merely for his own glorification.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    In a way, a gross overreaction by trump might wake more people up. Most here can see the boiled frog trajectory. Let others see that, while they can still help stop it. There's a reason they do it slowly. They need to manufacture consent.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    You're talking about firefighters standing in the middle of a huge ass forest fire, still doubting there's a fire.

    There's nothing done slowly. What Victor Orban did in 8 years turning Hungary into a dictatorship is what Trump did in the first 100 days of his second term.

    If people still fail to see what's happening, it's Idiocracy level stupidity. If people aren't woken up by now, they will never wake up.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago

    Yet,.in Cambodia, a million people were genocided in the equivalent of trump's first term. It's all relative.

    For most people, despite the political landscape, their day to day is not changing that rapidly. It's on the same gradual downward trajectory it has been for 20 years.

    Seeing heinous acts wakes them up. Things like cities being occupied. Ice murders etc. People are waking up but for those outside the affected cities they don't feel unsafe. Yet.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] -4 points 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago*

    War crimes by invading Venezuela, kidnapping it's "president", taking bribes, pedophilia, influencing the stock market while profiting from it, shooting boats murdering its crew near Venezuela which are also war crimes, deporting us citizens, invading us cities, putting people in concentration camps in the US, Afrikan countries and El Salvador without process, the list goes on and on and on.

    But SCOTUS cleared him of prosecution for anything he does while being president.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
    [–] 60 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    Yeah sure.

    How many National Guard went to jail for the Kent State massacre?

    Zero. Four murdered, 9 maimed.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago

    And I could win the lottery. Or fly to the moon. The current play of all media and politicians is to throw around words like could, and might, or possibly. All in the name of “doing something” without actually doing anything. Just empty threats upon empty threats. Because the politicians do not care.

  • source
  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    He's a murderer, not a shooter.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    The media can't legally say "murder" unless/until there's a conviction. So it's either "alleged murderer" or "shooter", and they definitely chose of the two, the one that 'safely' implies more guilt.

    One can't really reasonably fault them for that choice, if one believes in his guilt, which you obviously do.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    Yup, and it's generally "alleged murderer" only after they've been charged.

    Knowing how the media uses these terms helps understand where along the line things are in terms of the justice system. If I read "murder" I'd assume the guy has been convicted (so justice is being served) because of the convention of not using that word until there's a conviction. "Shooter" means he hasn't even been charged, so I know there's been no justice.

    It wouldn't be good for the media to imply justice has been served when in reality it hasn't. So it's good that they call him a shooter so those of us with media literacy know the situation accurately.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 23 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    They should just accidentally leak his name, address, etc.

    Mistakes happen.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago

    The FBI kicked Minnesota out. FBI is doing the “investigation “.

  • source
  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Can't prosecute someone of they can just walk out of the state unimpeded. Has he been detained in Minneapolis, even? He's certainly not under arrest. We'd have heard about that.

    Remember that Kyle Rittenhouse was allowed to leave Kenosha, Wisconsin and drive all the way back to Illinois without city or state officials lifting a finger. After turning himself in, he was let out on bail and - not long after - spotted

    at a bar with his mother in Mt. Pleasant, Wisconsin, drinking beers and posing for pictures alongside five men who sang "Proud of Your Boy", a song used by members of the far-right Proud Boys political organization. In one photo with two of them, Rittenhouse flashed an "OK" sign, a hand gesture that some have associated with white supremacists

    And this was just some vigilante asshole, not a badged up capo in the Trump Army.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 19 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    Please prosecute him, Minnesota

    Oh and this is my 150th comment here in this instance - I DON'T have to keep telling you this

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    no they can’t, the FBI stole all the evidence

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago

    That may not have been enough, given that in incidents like George Floyd, public video postings were some of the most critical evidence. Everyone has that evidence, even if they cannot provide on-scene confirmations.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    What's the opposite of jury nullification?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Ehh kind of. But, you know, nullification is when the laws say they're guilty but the jury says no. Typically because the laws are unjust. But there's an opposite where the laws might say they're innocent, but the jury says guilty because the laws are also unjust.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    The should start as soon as fucking possible.

  • source
  • Start tossing these Nazis in jail and see them scatter

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    They should arrest him and put him in the toughest prison in the state with the word Chomo written on his forehead.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Trials need evidence which Noem and others knowingly stole. Absent evidence a conviction will be hard to obtain. The state's helpless pleading here isn't about jurisdiction it's about access.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Couldn't they charge them with evidence tampering or obstruction or something?

    IANAL

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›
    40 comments in c/news@lemmy.world view that post