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[–] 172 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 66 points 11 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (10 children)

    Not same pose. Look at the different size gaps between elbows and body.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (8 children)

    When they said the same pose, they just mean they are front facing, arms to the side, as opposed to different positions for each dress. It's pretty darn close. She had to change dresses between shots, so the poses aren't going to be perfectly identical, but they are close enough to make the point that a person looks different depending on the stripes.

    Do you really think that extra half inch of daylight between her arm and body somehow faked the result?

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    The way to do this would be to edit the dress in Photoshop or similar. One picture, three designs and the model is the same in each.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (3 children)

    Absolutely. When the post is about how things look different based on the patterns chosen, everything we're looking at has to be the same or we can't really compare.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    This isn't a peer-reviewed drug study, it's just a demonstration. Things don't have to be absolutely perfect to demonstrate the basic concept that the orientation of the stripes makes a difference in perception.

    If she was facing front on one pose, sideways for another, and facing backwards for another, I'd agree with you. But three front facing photos, in the same pose, shot from the same distance in the same light, is good enough to demonstrate the difference effectively. I would much rather have this display, over a faked display of the same photo, with the dress patterns applied with AI or something. Then I would doubt the result. But doing it this way convinces me.

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  • [–] 46 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    Brb tossing out any horizontal stripes I have left from my closet.

    Wait what about flannel? The stripes are perpendicular, so would they cancel each other out?🤔

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  • [–] 53 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    Horizontal lines are known to do that but I think the photos aren't equivalent either way. If you cover the dress up or shoulders down, the middle one has a bigger gap between her legs and wider face without being able to see the stripes from what I see.

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    Horizontal stripes actually look great on a skinny person. Or any person, if the pattern is good by itself — while these black/white stripes aren't really a shining example of that (though they would work on a twig-shaped heroine in a 60s French new-wave film).

    Vertical stripes are typically boring imo.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Flannel's plaid disrupts any curves so it's pretty good for covering up bellies in particular. A big reason I'm a fan of the season of flannel (plus scarfs are nice, too).

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  • [–] 36 points 11 months ago
    [–] 32 points 11 months ago

    First one: I better watch out, she'll call a foul on me

    Second one: I better watch out, she's probably a felon on the run

    Third one: I can't watch out because I don't know where she is

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  • [–] 31 points 11 months ago (16 children)

    Something feels manipulated about this, but it also feels like the author/photographer went out of their way to make sure you couldn't prove it was manipulated

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  • [–] 54 points 11 months ago (10 children)

    What you're likely seeing as throwing you off is differences because this is an actual human wearing this - PLUS it's essentially an optical illusion. This isn't 3 versions of the same image with just the pattern changed. So yeah, these are actually not perfectly matching up if you overlay them on top of each other. I wouldn't say manipulated per se, just that they're 3 different images so they'll have some differences.

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  • [–] 24 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Yup.

    So let's take the body/pose on the right, copy it to all three positions mask the dress only, and overlay only the dress pattern in the same mask to actually show the differences between the patterns only.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Why can't I see your picture? Is it the app I am using?

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  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    I agree with you, but if you measure the width of the dress at the tip of her fingers, the left and right are about 99-100 pixels, while the middle one is 105 pixels wide. Her face in all three images is about 38-39 pixels wide (measured at the earlobe), so that rules out they stretched the entire image slightly. But 5 pixels is significant enough to kind of muddy the validity of the OP's message since it no longer rules out all but the appearance of the dress. It sadly happens that sometimes effects are exaggerated, even when there is a real effect at play.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Yeah, for sure. When I did the overlay I noticed the hands didn't match up, so I had to look close at the pose to see it's 3 different images with 3 different real dresses. Sort of defeats the purpose of doing this entirely.

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I think the biggest difference is the cut of the dress.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I feel this would be better as a Photoshop job. Keep the same base and just change the pattern. I guess it might be hard to have the lines follow the shape of the body though

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago

    (from left to right) a) trying to look slim b) about to escape from prison in 1930 c) trying to confound enemy nation's Navy

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  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Give her the 'ol Razzle Dazzle

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  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    The first one looks like a bottle, the second looks chubbier, and the third looks great.

    Very effective demonstration, actually kind of impressive how successful it was.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    She has different proportions in each picture. I can't tell if it was three different pictures, or they edited one picture and shaved down some spots depending on the dress.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Yes in the third picture which we all think she looks the best, there's more space between her arms and her body than there are in the other two pictures. They definitely shaved down something so she's thinner in the third picture.

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago*

    It’s funny how they also represent an era. Vertical stripes=50s horizontal=90s/early 2000s, slanted =futurama

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    It's not the clothes that make you fat, it's the nutritional choices lack of ozempic

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago

    I thought everyone knew that stripes change your perception of something. In this case a lady.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago* (15 children)

    Razzle dazzle camouflage!

    I'm genuinely surprised so many people are familiar with this.

    It's something talked about in perception courses/classes.

    The lines make it difficult for humans and machines to accurately gauge depth perception.

    For humans it's related to mach bands. And the way lateral inhibition works.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_bands https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lateral_inhibition&wprov=rarw1

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (13 children)

    How useful would this stuff be at disguising yourself from surveillance?

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (7 children)

    So the movement gait tracking would likely be impacted by this. Almost certainly. Since it heavily relies on leg movements and stride distance, even wearing a pair of dazzle pants with a regular shirt could, in theory, do a decent job.

    But not sure if there is any research on it. I'll have to look into this.

    As for painting the face in this pattern. It's less likely to work. Because facial recognition looks for specific feature ratios and ignores the rest. (However wearing a mesh scarf covering the face (no eye holes,) with the pattern, would be successful). But any mesh pattern would do this.

    Those geometric artistic face makeup guides you see are worthless. There is actual research on that.

    They don't work.

    But what does work is altering the ratios of your eyes. Because that's what facial recognition software mostly uses.

    1. Wear sunglasses that also block infrared. Easiest.

    2. Wear colored contact lenses that expand the size of your iris. Quite a lot do. Especially costume ones. Average iris is around 9-11mm. Costume colored lenses range from 13-15mm. You can even get some that completely cover the whites of the eyes. Tho I hear they are uncomfortable.

    3. Use makeup tricks to make your eyes look longer or taller. There are anime makeup tutorials that do just that.

    4. Add age lines. Research shows that older faces and faces with age lines added with paint/makeup , really screw up recognition.

    5. Be black. Recognition software has a lot of false matches for African Americans. Especially African American women.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    We had a bank robbery on my town a while back, a guy with a hoodie, so it was tough to get a good look at his face.

    They finally figured out that he was wearing a new type of mask made out of black stretchy material, with a face screen printed on the front of it, mostly celebrities. When put on, and disguised with a hoodie, it seems like it could fool facial rec pretty easily.

    Banks be wondering how they keep getting robbed by Kobe Bryant. It would be a good thing to wear to a potentially violent rally.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (4 children)

    Yeah I've seen those and they certainly would.

    Get yourself a Elon Musk one to wear for any mayhem activities.

    Pdiddy

    Epstein

    Ghislaine Maxwell

    Love to get one of kkkaroline

    Pam bondi

    Steve Miller.

    Mike johnson.

    Have your pick

    Kinda like how the Boston tea party did by dressing up as natives except without the racism.

    It's not a bad tactic.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    Kinda like how the Boston tea party did by dressing up as natives except without the racism.

    Since you brought up racism: The point is to keep the cops from identifying you with facial rec, so doesn't it make sense for a white person to wear a mask of a black person, and vice versa? Or is it bad to fool the cops into blaming a black person for a white person's crimes? What if the mask is of a black celebrity? Nobody would believe that it was really that celebrity anyway.

    Or maybe a white person should just wear a white person mask.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    Since black people are targeted in our country, not unlike the natives, maybe best to refrain from encouraging racial profiling and Black crime stereotypes.

    Idk. Ask a black person what their opinion is. Im white so I can't say for sure.

    I think it's fair to say that the original Boston tea party wasn't just worried about being identified. They could have just wore a mask or something.

    They specifically intended to put the heat on natives to protect their own ass. Which is pretty fucked up.

    Innocent Natives possibly died over their little stunt.

    We should make sure that if there is a connection to any group, it's the group that deserves it.

    Gop criminals, Nazis, and the like are good candidates.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I doubt the Colonists really thought it was Indians doing the Tea Party. I've never heard of the authorities seriously considering the possibility that the incident was caused by Indians, who would have had a difficult time making their way as an armed group, all the way through Boston into the harbor, and back out again.

    It would have been pretty clear by their clothing that they were Colonists, I doubt their disguises went much beyond some face paint and some Indian-style whooping. It was probably just more a matter of disguising themselves, than really putting the blame on the Indians.

    Besides, what would be the Indians' motivation to come in to Boston harbor and destroy the tea? It was the Colonists that had the problem with the Tea tax, the Indians didn't give a fuck.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    I think people will use any excuse , even a flimsy obvious illusion of guilt, to harm a group they hate.

    I mean just recently, every time there is a shooting, the media immediately tries to blame lefties. And then they use that to excuse ramping up violence against the left.

    Even tho it's clear to everyone else the right are 90% of the time, the perp. Cause they promote violence.

    Also. Just like police violence on minorities. The news often, at present and historically, does not report on hate crimes if the person(s) getting harmed are a minority that is devalued in their society.

    I mean I'm not saying 100% , natives were harmed from the tea party's little costume charade. But they could have been. I think it's reasonable to assume if it did happen, it wasn't reported.

    I am saying tho. They didn't choose to dress up as natives purely for camouflage.

    They absolutely wanted to put the heat on a group that was vulnerable and already disliked. To reduce chances of them being held accountable.

    So. Racism.

    They could have dressed up in Venetian costumes. Or just wore face coverings . Or dressed as women.

    They choose natives because they used them as a scapegoat.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago*

    Also I just had an idea. Jncos. Y'all remember those big ass wide pants?

    I bet it's pretty difficult for accurate gait measurements to be taken from pants that swim around you.
    Be like wearing a big fluffy skirt.

    We could bring back jncos!

    Think of the pocket space! Don't you miss being able to carry a small laptop in your back pocket? I do.

    Add a dazzle pattern on them and you are basically invisible.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Maybe if the stripes were across your face, nobody would notice you. I think the diagonal stripes would make your face look less fat.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    It's not about not getting noticed. The idea would be to keep them from analyzing footage of you to determine your identity.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (2 children)

    What exactly are the cameras scanning for? Is it just measurements between specific points? It would probably work pretty well for that.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    Yes for the face they measure your iris and sclera and the distance between your eyes. They compute a ratio output and use that. If your nose and mouth are visible they also create ratios for those. Distance and hight x length . By modifying these points, the ratios are poisoned.

    For movement gait identification. They use stride and leg lengths. (Thighs and calf ratios). Speed. Overall height. And where legs start (,hip). They make ratio measurements. But that's not as useful as it is for face. Not as accurate because of clothing.

    They use something more like motion capture. You ever seen videos of people in black skin suits with ping pong balls glued to it. ? They use this in games and cgi. They track movement with the ping pong balls and then map it on a computer to the CGI model.

    This is what is basically used for gait. tracking.

    But. Maybe you are thinking. "Holdon. If they need to use the ping pong balls in studios to capture motion, how can they do it from a video of someone walking down the street?"

    Well. Firstly it's not nearly as good as the suit/ball method done in a studio.

    But it doesn't have to be to create a high enough resolution of the movements to create a signature .

    That said. Unlike facial recognition, it's current ability to identify someone is less accurate and they can't just run it through a big database. Instead they use other information like cell phone pings to first create a list of possible identities.

    As you can guess. That still means there is huge amounts of error.

    There are huge amounts of error in facial recognition too. They just downplay it.

    But it's not nearly as good as they want you and juries/judges to think.

    Anywho. This is why the dazzle camouflage is specifically useful for gait recognition poisoning.

    The multiple high contrast bars of black and white confuse the software . The software cannot find the actual outline of the person vs the background. Especially in a video from afar. It poisons the data.

    Even modern day equipment has low accuracy determining the distance and specific location of things with this camouflage.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    So which one is supposed to be the good one? Her body looks identical to me in all three photos.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    There's this old propaganda that horizontal stripes make you look "fat," e.g. bad, and vertical stripes have the opposite effect, thinning, e.g. good. This is harmful rhetoric, as it encourages women to overprioritize looking thin.

    It is true that the horizonal stripe dress accentuates the curves, whereas the vertical stripes diminish them. But the values ascribed to these features are ass-backward. Curvy is good! Love the horizontal stripes personally.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I don't think anyone here is against the horizontal stripes. The vertical ones don't make her look fat, they just totally obfuscate her figure and make her look shapeless

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    It's a classic old saying. Women of my generation grew up hearing it and being shamed for wearing horizontal stripes.

    No one is saying vertical makes people look fat. If anything, it makes then look frumpy, uncomfortable and awkward.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago* (9 children)

    Can someone repost this using something other than Imgur? They block the UK and Mullvad (though if someone is using Mullvad and can access it, let me know what server you're using please)

    EDIT: nevermind, I can see it through the web version of Lemmy, just not through Sync or Imgur directly

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Oh, does Imgur not block Proton? I thought all VPN IPs were in a list somewhere and blocked en-masse, I wonder why Mullvad doesn't work then

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago
    [–] 4 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Despite being the same lovely woman, I am infinitely more attracted to her in the horizontal stripes.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    I have trouble estimating her position, direction and velocity.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago
    [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Why the hell do horizontal stripes make you look thicker?

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