Do we really need West and South when we can use negative North and negative East?

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[–] 108 points 11 months ago (1 child)

I think the idea of directions came before the idea of negative.

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  • [–] 50 points 11 months ago

    Just guessing here, but I would think it's for for clarity and brevity. West and South are shorter to say and distinct enough to avoid being easily misheard causing somebody to go in the opposite direction than intended.

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  • [–] 47 points 11 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 25 points 11 months ago* (18 children)

    Why stop at two, when you could stop at just one?

    North

    Negative North = south

    Negative 90 North = west

    90 North =east

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  • [–] 38 points 11 months ago (11 children)

    Better idea! What if we use 0 for North and then divide the circle around by exactly 360 points? That way we don't need NSEW, we have 0, 90, 180, 270!

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (10 children)

    Ah... I love airplanes... To be clear, the issue with this is that magnetic 0 is not the same as true 0. There's a slight offset that can cause issues. So why not have like... True 0 and magnetic 0. T0 and m0?

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Fun fact... there is an ICAO effort to "get rid" of magnetic headings for runway numbers. I listened to a presentation they did last year, and as much as I went into it thinking it wasn't needed, I was a convert listening to them.

    Btw, magnetic variation is pretty significant in some places. It's 13 degrees where I am.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    What's the new one? I must have missed the presentation. Probably because I wasn't invited.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I don't remember where I watched the presentation. I think it might have been one of Brian Schiff's videos, but I don't remember. Here's a link to it I found online. https://www2023.icao.int/safety/OPS/OPS-Section/Pages/Truenorth.aspx

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I suppose it makes sense but it feels wrong. I'm so used to having and using magnetic but that isn't a reason to continue doing less efficient things.

    The redundancy aspect is there as when systems would fail (GPS for true), the magnetic redundancy would still come into okay and still work enough to get by.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Why not?

    Because what happens when your referent changes? Which direction is Mars from Earth? We obviously need a single navigational system that works anywhere in the universe.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Easy! Assuming the earth is the center of the universe, coordinates are 360,360

    +- the current position of the Earth in the solar system +- the current position of the solar system in the Milky Way. In the Local Cluster, in the Local Group, in the Virgo Supercluster, in the Local Mesh

    In order to return, we just go that way:

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    We could use one, and assume we’re operating in the field of complex numbers:

    1 N = North
    i N = West
    i^2^ N = South
    i^3^ N = East.

    And we could use the complex modulus to indicate distance or speed... or we could map the Riemann sphere onto the surface of the earth and use a single complex number to indicate location.

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Why do we have subtraction when we can just add a negative number?

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    [–] 18 points 11 months ago

    Negative north negative east airlines doesn't have a good ring to it though.

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  • [–] 32 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Why do we have 26 letters? Why not just communicate in binary!

    01010100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110110 01100101 01110010 01111001 00100000 01101110 01100001 01110100 01110101 01110010 01100001 01101100 00100001

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    55 73 65 20 68 65 78 20 66 6f 72 20 74 65 72 73 65 6e 65 73 73 20 62 72 75 68 0a 0a 41 6c 73 6f 20 74 68 69 73 20 69 73 20 73 74 69 6c 6c 20 61 73 73 75 6d 69 6e 67 20 55 54 46 2d 38 20 6f 72 20 61 74 20 6c 65 61 73 74 20 41 53 43 49 49 2c 20 73 6f 20 77 74 68 20 6c 6d 61 6f

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago

    Why do we have down when we can just use negative up?

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    What goes up, must come negative-Up

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    And I say we don't have enough names, we should have names for at least 30° and 45° increments.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    So you'd have states like North Dakota and Negative North Dakota?

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago

    How would that be any easier?

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Better question is why don’t they have 8? I hate saying “north by north east”.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    I would not be surprised compasses were invented before negative numbers

    edit

    negative numbers : 200 BCE
    compasses : as early as 202 BCE

    (these are just from a cursory search, I am not a specialist)

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago

    This is just the Minecraft coordinates system and it sucks. "OK I'm at the coords, where's the--oh fuck, it was -3002, 108 not 3002, 108."

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    If the four cardinal points bother you, better not look up wind roses or rhumbline networks...

    A rather simple one.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    This is basic coordinate usage. Negative latitudes are South. And 180 or -180 is half a planet away from the prime meridien. West of England are negative longitudes.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    In addition to what others have already said, it'd be really silly to make one a negative of the other in the most basic sense, too.

    There have been so many issues with electrons having a "negative" charge, and that's a binary situation! It would be so much worse to introduce implied favoritism with basic directions.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    For most of human history people who couldn't do math, or read, or understand a map, have been communicating directions to each other.

    4 directions is just enough to tell someone which way to face, without being too many to remember.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    without being too many to remember

    People used to have no problem remembering the names of at least eight winds, depending on the direction...

    Here are the ones used in Catalonia, for instance; we were taught them at school:

    Though, to be fair, llevant means where the sun rises and ponent where it sets, migjorn means midday, which makes sense given the other two, and everyone already knew tramuntana, cause it's a headache when it blows, so it's mostly the other four we have to remember... the Greek one seems quite harder, though, then again, I'm not Greek..:

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    We just say "North-East" for gregal or "North, North-East" if it's half between North and gregal. Other would be North-West, South-West, and South-East.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago*

    North and south are fundementally different, climate and biosphere -wise, so i don't think it would ever make sense to people to modify the same word to describe two very different things. East and west maybe less so, but dawn and dusk are pretty important differences.

    Some polynesian cultures use two main direction words, which usually translate as something like mountain-ward and beach-ward.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Whatever, Nancy.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Other languages kinda do. In Spanish, east and west are este and oeste. Italian is est and ovest.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Why even use WORDS for it? That's too long.

    Let's use ternary numbers, one for each of North-South and East-West. A 1 is center, 2 is north/east, and 0 is south/west.

    So North is now 21. South east is 02.

    Much easier to say like that, and it covers all 8 directions too and the center (11) too.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    @NorthWestWind@lemmy.world

    Your new username is -South -East Wind lmao

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    As a practical matter, relative directions are already hard enough, where I might say that Colorado is east of California, and California is west of Colorado.

    To use +/- East would mean there's now just a single symbol difference between relative directions. California bring -East of Folorado, and Colorado being +East of California.

    Also, we need not forget that the conventional meridian used for Earth navigation is centered on Greenwich in the UK, and is a holdover from the colonial era where Europe is put front-and-center on a map and everything else is "free real estate". Perhaps if the New World didn't exist, we would have right-ascension based system where Greenwich is still 0-deg East and Asia is almost 160-deg East. Why would colonialists center the maps on anywhere but themselves?

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Ah yes, our great 51st state, Folorado!

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Why don't clocks have just 4 numbers?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    180° of Arctica and then 180°of Antarctica. Reasonable.

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