This is so funny because rust has one of the worst cheating situations and majority of their players are windows users, and theres lots of games that have anticheat that allows linux and have notably less significant cheating problems like marvel rivals. in reality rust doesn't take cheating very seriously because if they did they would have more server side software that detects illegitimate behaviour like tons of other games do successfully...... even most popular Minecraft servers have better functioning anti cheat that is completely server side than rust has while getting kernel access to your pc. its pathetic and lazy development tbh and this entire post from them reads like such extreme cope....

top 100 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 208 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Get your anticheat code off my fucking cpu and onto your servers where it belongs.

Garbage games do this, simple as.

  • source
  • hideshow 16 child comments
  • [–] 24 points 11 months ago (14 children)

    Absolutely. You know where all the players are and what they have. Just check if something that the client is reporting is IMPOSSIBLE and kick the player who threw the request. If you have a player who is performing at over a certain level of realistic performance, have someone manually check them to verify they're legitimately that skilled and if so, flag the account as "actually just that good". It's the only reliable solution.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 14 child comments
  • [–] 25 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    I'm not a gaming dev, but a full-stack web dev; is it not common sense that data needs to be validated on the server side, not client? I don't really get why client-side "anti-cheat" is a thing, but may be missing something.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Not a game dev either but my guess would be the main reason is server performance/compute cost.
    Any checks that are done on the client run on the users' hardware instead of the publisher having to pay for more/better servers and electricity.

    I think the disconnect with most other types of developers stems from the respective goal hierarchies. In most fields of computing, correctness isn't just a high-value goal - it's a non-negotiable prerequisite. With online multiplayer games, one of your chief concerns is latency and it can make sense to trade some cheating for a decrease in lag. Especially if you have other ways of reducing cheating that don't cost you any server processing power.

    Also, aren't many of the client side anti-cheat solutions reused in several games? If you're mainly checking that the player is running exactly the same client that you published, I imagine the development cost for anti-cheat is lower.

    TLDR: Money. It's always money.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    I think you're wrong about one thing - it's not about compute cost, but about complexity of accounting for latency. You could check if the player can see the enemy they're claiming to have shot, but you really need to check if they feasibly could've seen the enemy on their computer at the time they sent the packet, and with them also having outdated information about where the enemy was.

    The issue gets more complex the more complex the game logic is. Throw physics simulation into the mix and the server and clients can quickly diverge from small differences.

    Ultimately, compensating for lag is convoluted, can still cause visible desync for clients (see people complaining about seeing their shots connect in CS2 without doing damage), and opens up potential issues with fake lag.

    More casual games will often simply trust the client, since it's better for somebody to, say, fly around on an object that's not there for other players, than for a laggy player to be spazzing out and rubberbanding on their screen, unable to control their character.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Aimbots and esp is client side only.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    hmmm I see; could not at least aimbots still be detected on the server side?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    Not 100% no. And any evaluation method you do will either allow more cheaters or catch very good players. Not to say this isn't done because it totally is just that it's very far from perfect.

    Hell I've heard of cases where some really good streamers had to be an a special list of people to not kick/ban from this kind of detection because they've repeatedly been falsely detected. If you aren't a streamer you will have a lot harder of a time to get unbanned though not just because you aren't famous but also because it's harder to prove your innocence.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I remember Valve placing honeypots that would be impossible for a honest player to see or reach, and banning in mass the players who fall for it after some time to avoid the adaptation of the cheaters. And that is a cheap yet effect way to clean the player base.

    Other interesting strategy is to limit the client information available, of the character is not looking with a scope, the client doesn't need to know if there is another player far in that direction.

    Probabilistic analysis is not the only way.

    But I know that some strategies would demand major reworks or good planning from the development phase.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Honeypots are not an easy solution either though unless you only really do it as a one off thing. And to be worth it you have to allow those cheaters to continue for some time before banning. You shouldn't underestimate how adaptable cheats developers are.

    Limiting information is easier said than done especially for circumstances that matters the most. And don't forget people can still hear others through walls.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    What performance threshold should that be? 10%? So 140,000 manual checks of CS:GO players? 1% is still 14,000. How are you going to check those people - go to their houses? If they don't let you in just ban them? What about people who install cheats that allow them to perform as well as someone in the top 2% but not top 1%? They have a free ride?

    It's not possible to catch all cheats, but pure server-side cheat detection is basically worthless.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Doesn't CS do it by using volunteers, showing clips to players waiting for matches or something where they can vote if the player was using cheats? I could be remembering wrong though, my CS knowledge comes entirely from watching klicksphilip :P

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago*

    Just look how well this went for Valve & CS2... It's riddled with cheaters, despite having multiple updates to VAC over the year. This method only works for games like World of Tanks, where most things are server sided.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 86 points 11 months ago

    Server side anti-cheat should be the focus of every game company with an MMO game in their catalog. Relying on kernel access is madness.

  • source
  • [–] 82 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    Let's do some math here, they said:

    More cheaters using Linux than legit users (...) .01% of all players base

    Let's do a quick math. The maximum peak users for Rust was 259,646 concurrent users according to https://steamcharts.com/app/252490 . Let's assume 60% (more than half) of all the .01% users were cheaters, congratulations, you got rid of all those 16 cheaters... I haven't played much Rust, but I'm fairly confident that there's a bit more than 16 cheaters there.

    And that's without getting into the whole client side anti-cheat doesn't work.

  • source
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] [S] 60 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    You dont understand linux users have black magic hacks that ruined the game for every player on every server, their power cant be understated... Theyre a whole bunch of dangerous hardened criminals

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I feel like some people think Linux is only for hackers and cybersecurity professionals

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago

    And genuine hackers and cybersecurity professionals have got way better things to do than cheat in Rust.

    The cheaters are all obnoxious 12-year-olds who couldn't land a single hit without the cheats, that's why all the compilation videos of cheaters falling foul to fake cheat software are so funny. They'll spend 10 minutes trying to go through a doorway without it ever occurring to them that something must be wrong.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 73 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    If your cheat detection runs on the client side only, you don't have cheat protection.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Well, there only so much in gaming that reasonably can be done server side.

    Sure, the server could identify that a player shouldn't be visible and not transit that location to a client, addressing seeing through walls, in theory.

    But once a player is hypothetically visible, aimbot can happen. If you are crawling in a ghillie suit in the grass, but the other player has a client that skips rendering grass and replaces the ghillie suit model with a suit made of traffic cones...

    Now intrusive anti cheat isn't worth it, but it is an unavoidable reality that it is up to the client to preserve the integrity.

    Closest you get would be streamed gameplay, where the rendering even is server side. Also not worth it. But even then I could see cheating machine vision and faked controls to get an edge unfairly.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 236 points 1 year ago (38 children)

    It's almost like client side anti cheat doesn't work and if proper server side anti cheat is made it wouldn't matter what platform the client is on.

  • source
  • hideshow 38 child comments
  • [–] 178 points 1 year ago (24 children)

    "never trust the client" is pretty much a motto of infosec, idk what the hell game devs expect

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 24 child comments
  • [–] 51 points 11 months ago* (5 children)

    See, the wild thing is that I used to run with some actual hackers in GMod... and... I learned from the exploits that they did, how you actually design at least a game mode script that can't be fucked, can't be poked proded or queried directly.

    Of course, if the actual exploit is lower level than what I'm writing at, well then I'm still fucked...

    I can remember at least one GMod originated, lower level exploit, caused by Garry leaving some direct, unsanitized interface to Steam itself directly exposed via lua... which caused Steam/Valve themselves to step in and rewrite a part of all of Steam, because Garry is s fucking moron, and more or less allowed a virus/malware to propogate through Steam itself, independent of Garry's Mod...

    Never did figure out if any of the goobers I knew had any direct ties to that or not.

    But anyway, fucking yes, literally never trust the client with anything beyond their own GUI, and barely trust them with that, don't just let them click on anything in their screen space to see if its an item they can put in their inventory, do an actual server side vector ray trace, from the item to the playet, make sure the thing they clicked on is actually near them, put that all into a buffer that locks up if they're calling it at inhuman rates...

    It was so easy to item dupe and stat boost and even hijack other players accounts in so many gamemodes I saw.

    Fucking one of them had the user set and enter a login password to 'access' their various characters, pick one to spawn as.

    Problem?

    ... That gamemode was actually doing the id check via SteamID, duh.

    The username/password thing was a fucking phishing scam, that game mode had a forum, everyone used the same user names, a bunch of people got their hotmails or whatever fucked, by the dev of that gamemode.

    ... Anyway... yeah, I learned all this infosec type shit first hand, in an earlier 'FacePunch Studios' production.

    Fuck Garry, fuck FacePunch, these people are idiot clowns.

    Roblox exists now, the GMod roleplay communities independently invented their own ways of monetizing their gamemodes via syncing to their sites and forums with payoal widgets, ya'll missed the boat on that one, no one is going to play S&ndbox in anything close to GMod in its heyday numbers.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 37 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Garry leaving some direct, unsanitized interface to Steam itself directly exposed via lua... which caused Steam/Valve themselves to step in and rewrite a part of all of Steam, because Garry is s fucking moron, and more or less allowed a virus/malware to propogate through Steam itself, independent of Garry's Mod...

    That sounds entirely on Steam. The game is the client in this context, and Steam as the server shouldn't be trusting anything from the client.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    This was like, over a decade back, I don't remember it in accurate detail, and also, Garry deleted all the old Facepunch forums, which I do remember having a lot of discussion about this...

    But, best I can recall, it was something like a buffer overflow/memory space exploit, because Garry exposed a core Steam function, that normally is only called by other Steam functions, in c++...

    Well, Garry decided to give basically a lua api / reference method of accessing it directly, allowing doing arbitrary code injection into it, from anyone running a GMod server or networked client.

    So I mean yeah, you can say Valve should not have trusted Garry with low level access to Source and Steam, that that's their bad, they should have expected he would create a serious security exploit out of naivette/hubris, like the proverbial junior sql db admin who just does 'DROP ALL' on prod, as an 'experiment'.

    Uh yep, I would agree with that.

    ... I think this may have had something to do with Steam's, fairly new at the time, achievements system roll out, but I'm not sure if that's correct.

    EDIT:

    For those that don't know, the vast, vast majority of what GMod is, is basically just opening up core Steam/Source calls done in C++, opening those up to Lua, by mapping them with reference methods, and then allowing Lua scripting via those methods.

    Then on top of that, you draw like, the item spawning menu, tool menus, make a standardized template for making a new tool or weapon (SWEPs) or entities, or players or NPCs, etc.

    So uh, yeah, if you're not careful with that, if you don't know what you're doing at the lowest level, that can be very dangerous and easily lead to uh, unforseen consequences.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    I'm still confused why any game having a way to upload a worm into Steam is good and why it was uniquely a GMod problem. It sounds like a case of a problem waiting to happen and the first place it happened to happen was GMod.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago*

    Fuck you, take my order, stupid hallucinating AI drive thru working off an 18 year old microphone!

    Oh Wait!

    You're closing half your locations after trying to push realtime adjusting prices.

    Nah I'm good, I'm gonna be posted up at the abandoned Wendy's, screaming at it all day long.

    Get those pigtails in a hairnet, and my fries in a bag, thanks very much.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -5 points 11 months ago (14 children)

    They're totally different scenarios. How is the server supposed to know if a player has (e.g.) walls disabled and knows where the enemies are?

    Because the client has to know where the enemies are while still hiding it from the player.

    People who have no idea how things work and go off on quotes they see online is why these discussions are useless.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 14 child comments
  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    That's the neat part: you don't. If their idea of anti cheat means taking over my machine to scan everything that runs on it, it's a lost battle. Either find a way to do it server side based on behavioral heuristics, or don't bother.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Finally someone who seems to have some sense of how things actually work and if course they get down voted...

    Sure I get why people don't like kernel anti cheat but they should at least understand the difficulties from not having it.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Depends on the game but largely enemies don’t need to appear in the client until they’re becoming visible to the player

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Easy to say but if you use Unreal Engine it's very hard to do that. Unreal doesn't have a built in way to not replicate something not seen and the inbuilt networking is built on any action a player makes is tied to the player. So if you want to hear that player walking or shooting that player will exist on the client.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    So the server has to compute whether a single pixel of the enemy's body or shadow is visible to every client? How does the client play spatialised audio for enemy footsteps if it doesn't know where they are - does the server calculate that as well?

    I mean, if the client is thin, with everything computed server-side, this works, but that's not what games are.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Because the client has to know where the enemies are while still hiding it from the player.

    Why? :3 If a player shouldn't be able to see someone, just don't send their location.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    But if they're not rendered, what about their sound effects like walking, or something like their bullets?

    This is actually an issue in War Thunder, where if the server thinks you shouldn't be able to see a tank, it won't render it, but this also causes it fairly frequently to not play noises from the tank like the engine or shots, and to not render projectiles from them either. So a teammate can die right next to you and you won't know how because the shot wasn't rendered on your screen even though you were looking in the direction of the enemy when they fired it. Or a tank with an engine louder than a semi truck will sneak up and kill you because the game simply decided that you shouldn't be able to hear them.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    There's been an increase in games that don't give the client full knowledge of enemies. That data doesn't actually need to be sent to the client if you can do checks on the server to know if they're visible. Yeah, it needs to be simplified from a full raytraced solution from the camera, but it can be good enough that it isn't much of a issue, depending on the game.

    IIRC, some game (it may be Counter Strike, but idk) only gives your client player data for the "room" you're in, and adjacent ones, or something like that. You can still see through walls near you, but you can't see people on the other side of the map.

    Yes, there's always going to be a point where there's nothing more you can do and you just have to hope for the best, and mitigate what you can on the client. Still, the naive "the client has to know where the enemies are" isn't accurate. A well designed anti-cheat solution will try to come up with a solution for this. Sometimes it isn't possible, but often there's some amount of information that doesn't need to be sent to players that can be hidden.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Maybe I'm wrong but the server could read where the players are and what are they don't and see if they can do that without using cheats. Then you keep the statistics of every player and flag every time there's something strange. If too much flags raise, check the user. I don't see the need to do it in real time. Some games will be bad... but nothing stops the server from rescoring the game after checking if a cheater is detected. The server can even send an alert to the other players of that game and let them decide how to fix the end result of the game.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    If your objection to client-side anti-cheat is that it "doesn't work" what till you see what server-side anti-cheat fails to accomplish!

    There's no way with a pure server-side implementation to even try to work out whether the client is using an aimbot or wallhack. No solution is perfect, which is why the best solutions try to combine methods.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    These people are delusional, don’t listen to them. Their cognitive dissonance drives them to jump through the biggest hoops to defend something that is simply flat-out wrong. You can't beat most cheaters with a server side anti cheat only, unless you do what World of Tanks does and have everything server-sided which isn't feasible for all games. Take CS2 or CS:GO for example. The game is riddled with cheaters, despite getting multiple VAC updates this year.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    I don't think it's cognitive dissonance driving them, I think it's hatred of rootkit anti-cheat that bleeds into other client-side anti-cheat.

    People aren't very good at separating different but related things, it seems.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Why would you even send the location of players behind walls? You can just do the visibility check on the server first. But hey that's extra CPU cycles that they don't want to be spending on helping you.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Visibility check of what?

    • The player and their shadow and all visible effects on the game world -> congratulations, now the server needs a GPU per player.
    • The player's geometry? -> shadows pop into existence when the player's arm appears around the corner, and the server is still way more expensive than it would be
    • A volume around the player? -> Still allows a significant advantage, still requires significantly more horsepower, and the client still can't do spatial audio

    This amounts to making players use thin clients and putting all visual and audio rendering on the server if you want it to work and not suck. Will you be happy to save £1000 on your PC at the cost of having games cost £150 a pop? Thought not. Or did you think the "extra CPU cycles" were just free?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    @FishFace @x00z my small thought -> i think today no solution can prevent "cheaters" because you can't differ "cheaters" from users anymore if they want to.Here is why ->One PC is running the game -> a second PC emulates Keyboard and mouse inputs using a CAM (Capture Card) / Sound (microphon / digital capture) and an on the Game trained AI. So what does any "cheat protection" offer if they don't protect against serious cheating ?PS: "The only still working protection is lan play with control over hardware / software and players like done on real events"

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Yes, there is no way to prevent all cheats. However, to prevent as many as possible, you need to use all available methods. It's quite reasonable that kernel-level anti-cheat should not be available, as it it's an overreach and a security risk. However, client-side anti-cheat is not that.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    It's a very hard thing to check for though especially with how complex the world can be in games today. Even if it was feasible you don't know where a client will be in a few frames so you basically need to do a "what players can be seen from this general location" check. The higher movement speed the bigger of a volume is your possible viewpoint.

    This is also ignoring all the things you need replicated even when you can't see the player such as footsteps or them shooting or interacting with something.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I don’t pay multiplayer. That said, what if there is no anticheat? Would that level the playing field? Let everyone aimbot if they want to.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    It will ruin the experience for anyone playing competitively in a ranked mode, which means invalidating that mode entirely. This drives players away from competitive games like CS, Valorant, etc. which is why those games all use anti-cheats.

    Similarly if there is a persistent world or some state that the game relies on to make the game fun for everyone, e.g. extraction shooter, MMORPG, etc then if the game state's integrity is compromised it loses meaning entirely. Imagine playing chess but your opponent can move the pieces any way they like; it stops being a game.

    I do agree that games where everyone agrees on cheating should allow it.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 107 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    So many games that work flawlessly on Linux, so I just skip those that don't:]

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    How many of them competitive multiplayer?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [S] 8 points 11 months ago

    many. Marvel rivals, a bunch of the battlefield games, arma 3, dayz, dead by daylight, halo, hunt showdown, team fortress, war thunder, csgo, deadlock, vail vr most of these games manage to have less rampant cheating than rust while supporting linux at the same time, meanwhile rust claims that only 0.01 percent of players, only 14 people, were linux players and somehow thats causing a serious cheating problem that they cant resolve? anyone can tell how dumb that sounds.....

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 47 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    They dropped Linux before proton was invented. Go on any cheat website and the requirements will always say to have windows. Maybe proton is exploited by some cheaters, news to me. You should just ban windows, no more cheaters.

  • source
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 22 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    It's not proton that is exploited. It's the kernel itself that cannot be monitored by anti-cheats, meaning cheaters could install a modified kernel to mess with the anti-cheat

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 25 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    as if the cheaters can't already evade anti-cheats even on windows.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    Exactly. There are two methods that bypass kernel-level anticheat fairly easily, and there isn't really any way around them.

    You can run the game in a virtual machine, with cheats running at the hypervisor level. This level is more privileged than the virtual machine's kernel, and can thus read or modify the active program without detection.

    The other way is to load the hack into the bootloader, so the cheat loads before the kernel and, again, can thus be in a more privileged permissions state.

    The only effective solution is to detect cheating server side, or change the game engine so cheats don't work (like loading all models with no line of sight behind the player, so wall hacks and modified game models don't matter.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    There's another whole category that also doesn't care about what the game is running on the kernel: seperate device cheats. They act as a man in the middle for the input and output signals, and can auto shoot when you'll hit or adjust your aim if you're close but not quite there. Or just play for you entirely if it's that good at processing the output.

    And blocking that isn't likely possible without killing streaming for the game or convincing all users to get input devices with encrypted connections or they can't play your game.

    I'd respond to the original comment that anyone who doesn't have server side cheat detection isn't serious about stopping cheaters. In any case, I just removed that game from my wishlist. Not that I needed another survival builder game anyways, though they do tend to catch my eye.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    They probably gave up on preventing cheat entirely, and are just trying to reduce the amount of cheaters by making cheating as annoying as possible.

    I do actually believe them when they say that cheating on Linux can be made significantly easier and more comfortable than on Windows. I think it's a real fundamental issue for Linux, multiplayer games with toxic playerbases can be unplayable due to users being able to do what they want. They would have to make systems to allow for playing in smaller human-moderated servers, or rely purely server-side solutions

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 40 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    I mean, Linux player base is only .01%, even if they are all cheaters, they will literally have no impact... You can't say "Linux user base is too small", and "if you support Linux you want cheaters" at the same time if you want to make sense.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 40 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I gave up Rust when I moved to Linux.

    They are changing the game from building a cozy PvP Minecraft, to a clan based wargame.

    Cozy players, don't cheat, clans do (Not all, of course).

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Changing? Zergs have run servers since the first day I played almost 10 years ago. Small monuments are war zones the first few days of wipe. I don't think that's changed much since. Rust has never been cozy on any server with a population.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 80 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    If Valve's expanding hardware lineup helps increase SteamOS adoption, they'll change their tune.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Not a chance.

    Overhaul your entire game stack || Blame Linux for being too small

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Why would they need to overhaul their game stack? Rust would run just fine on Linux if they didn't block it intentionally.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    When I say they're gamestack, I'm talking about their client and their backend services and their associated middleware.

    Moving a game that is mostly client authoritative to server authoritative is a hell of a lot of work and requires serious rewrites to both the client and the server.

    It also requires a lot more compute to handle the back end.

    When you go from calculating everything on the front end and just sending the data back to the back end to sending actual controls to the back end and doing simulations, you need to rewrite a significant portion of everything.

    It's way cheaper and way faster just to write it in the client, and require the kernel/secured OS to police risky actions to the application.

    The last couple of projects I looked at were probably 50% more man hours to make it server authoritative out of the box. Trying to come back and do it after the fact, It's much, much higher.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 39 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    When we stopped support for Linux, we saw more cheat users exploiting Linux, than actual legitimate users.

    Am I reading this wrong? Or is this guy really trying to say the very predictable rise in exploit users on the platform after they stopped patching the exploits is proof that the platform is full of cheaters?

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 27 points 11 months ago

    Yes. It sounds like they removed anti cheat from linux for a spell and watched an uptick in cheater switching platforms. So they weren't willing to support the anticheat, removed it from the game and watched cheaters flock to the platform. I don't think they are saying linux users are cheaters, just that cheater will use linux if vulnerable.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe he meant at the point they stopped support, not after. But its not very clear from the way he worded it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago

    Curious take, Rust has about 137k users online (24h peak via steam charts rn atleast). Dev claims 0.01% of users play on Linux. That's 13-14 players. If even a single person decides to cheat or run Linux to cheat the amount of "cheaters on Linux" would indeed "dramatically increase". But that's a really bad way to tell the narrative.

    I don't really care, i haven't played rust in years and as others mentioned there's way to much games i can play instead. Ive been playing a lot of The Finals recently and I've had a blast. They have Proton support and anti-cheat and atleast publicly say that they do want to continue supporting Linux.

    If not supporting Linux is a business/economical decision just say so. This is a really bad way to discuss the situation and an attempt to frame linux players as cheaters. If you have 14 players total on Linux out of a total 100k then they most likely aren't the problem.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 77 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I would bet that the claim of more than half of Linux players cheating is false positives due to shitty anti cheat. Like the anti cheat relying on some windows process or trying to initiate some process and linux is structured differently so it fails.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 36 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I’d imagine people on Linux who want to play Rust would be more than happy to shell out $15 and go through the little effort it is to download DLC so they can play on a Premium server when the other option is to shell out $140 for a Windows 11 license and go through the effort of installing that spyware trash to their PC.

    On the other hand, Alistair clearly doesn’t want your money so maybe stop trying to give it to him.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] [S] 6 points 11 months ago*

    i didnt plan to anyway lol and i dont think people should bother, rust is not a game worth the extra money or even worth the time in general...... and its damn well not worth a windows install, and i say that as someone who alrdy has one just in case on my system, i wouldnt even choose to boot up windows to play rust......

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›