Minecraft: Java Edition has been obfuscated since its release. This obfuscation meant that people couldn’t see our source code. Instead, everything was scrambled – and those who wanted to mod Java Edition had to try and piece together what every class and function in the code did.

Modding is at the heart of Java Edition – and obfuscation makes modding harder. We're excited about this change to remove obfuscation, as it should make it quicker and easier for modders to create and improve mods. Now you won’t have to untangle tricky code or deal with unclear names. What’s more, de-bugging will become more straightforward, and crash logs will actually be readable!

surprisingly fantastic and consumer friendly move from mojang, good on them

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[–] 139 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I look forward to several critical CVE being discovered like log4j

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Wasn't log4j originally found by 2b2t players, then used maliciously and reported later on, then going onto get fixed by every major server framework like bukkit, paper, fabric, and more?

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  • [+] 61 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 46 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    They should officially support the mod loaders at this point

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  • [+] 21 points 1 year ago (7 children)
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    Not... Really? I mean I get it if you like mods, i do too, but Minecraft offers so much out of the box that I find it extreme to claim that..

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Sodium, Let Me Despawn (prevents servers from going under 20TPS), No Chat Reports, and other QOL no content mods are essential for even running a server with vanilla clients tbh

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Server hosting and using mods to improve performance/server moderation tools is a bit different than playing with mods.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    Fair, although stock Minecraft without QOL is rough around the edges (especially if we're talking performance or accessibility)

    Even client mods are almost a must for things like saturation monitoring or ease of navigation

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I'd say its more like going to a fancy ice cream shop with amazing ice cream and ordering vanilla (hehe see what I did there?) or a fancy pizza place known for their amazing topping combinations and just getting a slice of cheese pizza. Its perfectly fine and probably better than some other places you've had vanilla ice cream or cheese pizza, but holy crap are you missing out!

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  • [–] 129 points 1 year ago (27 children)

    So, what's the catch? Surely Microsoft and Mojang didn't just suddenly become good?

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  • [–] 123 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    The monkeypaw says they will stop updates for the java edition or release a new version that doesn't work on the java edition.

    They probably see how many sales are generated from the free work done by modders though. If someone wants to come along and do for free the thing you might have to actually pay designers, developers, artists and all the support staff for and they still need to pay you to play it, you'd be foolish not to encourage the exploitation of free labor.

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  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Call me ignorant, if this happened and it brought a new golden era of modding (1.7.10 style) where everyone's playing the same version I'd be maybe the happiest player ever.
    Modders backporting content is nothing new, hell, they even brought the mobs that didn't make the cut from those stupid mob votes to life.
    Let modding become the new updates, fuck it. At this point they'd likely be better realised than Microsoft's efforts.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I was thinking the same thing. If the de-obfuscation tools are already out there, it might cost them more money to keep that layer. Their developers also have to use it to read the crash logs and the like from the sounds of it. Less layers = less maintenance = less cost. More mods = keeps the game relevant.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Or a Bethesda style creation club is coming.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    They already do that for bedrock.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Complete with microtransactions and a horrible lack of customizability! Seriously I just wanted to play some Minecraft in RTX but you literally can't use the nVidia RTX stuff outside of the demo maps, otherwise you have to purchase a different texture pack with real money. And basically everything in the Bedrock Marketplace costs real money, and very little is free.

    Meanwhile Java edition doesn't have any paid content in part because the original Minecraft license specified anyone was free to make mods and custom content but were explicitly restricted from charging money for it

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    If that happens, the modding scene would boom incredibly

    And you'd have some smart nerds who take it upon them to keep updating the game much better than Mojang ever could.

    It would become open source almost

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    I guess it just doesn't make sense to obfuscate it when mods in general runs the Minecraft community in turn making more profit to Mojang/Microsoft. My other suspicion is potential competition. There is this game called Vintage Story which kinda directly competes with Minecraft seems gaining ground and was built to be moddable from the start.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Havent they been making changes to help mod/datapack development for a while?

    Modding is such a big part of the game, helping it would get more people playing the game

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They made "datapack" which is a way of playing with mods without having to use third-party mod loaders like Forge and Fabric but (don't quote me on this as I'm not a mod developer) it's not as powerful compare to the mod loaders.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yup. Mods can change basically EVERYTHING, compared to datapacks being able to change only what mojang wants.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Not sure if it's just what they want, it's mostly that Minecraft's spaghetti code had a lot of things hardcoded. Lately they've been changing a lot of things to be data-driven, and able to be changed by datapacks

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I wonder how good AI is at deobfuscating code. It seems like the kind of thing it might be good at.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    With how bad it is at writing it, I'm guessing similarly bad. It'll do something, but odds are it introduces a ton of errors that you then have to track down. That's the best case. Worst case, it just creates something totally different that looks similar to the input but doesn't do the same thing.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It’s a 20 year old game going into abandonware mode. This is the nicest way for them to do that.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (1 child)
    1. Its 16, not 20, the earliest version "Cave Game Tech Test" was in May 2009.

    2. They're still actively pushing updates, a really big one is scheduled for the holiday season. Additional biomes and mini-bosses were added last year with structures hinting at development plans for a 4th dimension. The lighting engine is being actively redone.

    Minecraft is absolutely not gearing down into abandonware mode.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago*

    This paired with the bedrock gdk release and changes to the file path so that we don't need to use iobit unlocker to mod rtx files is some hella good vibes

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  • [+] 38 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago

    Finally we can view Mojang's shitty server multi-threading implementation in all its glory.

    spoiler___

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    I like to think that Luanti caused this.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Every Minecraft update just makes me hum "Where's the modding API" again.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Is that going to kill the need for the various modloaders?

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  • [–] 48 points 1 year ago*

    As I understand it no, the modloaders will still handle things like file management and conflicts and load orders and etc. Individual mods could implement solutions for that, but it makes more sense to centralize that effort around the modloaders.

    What this will do is make it much less tedious to develop the mods in the first place.

    (I may be wrong and the role of modloaders may have changed in the six years since I was last active in the modding scene without my knowing it)

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago

    Modloaders also mainly exist due to the onerous terms of any mojang/minecraft API for java edition that would exist - Forge/Fabric/etc... are designed to rip open the game and then stitch it back together with the desired goodies. Anything official would probably still have strings that would bind the modders, so modders won't embrace the system wholeheartedly (similar to how datapacks can't replace mods).

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  • [–] 65 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Oh I see it’s that time of the year where Mojang gives the community a bone after stomping on them the rest of the year.

    Anyways as someone who has worked on Java projects extensively since 2020, very little will actually change from this. The main problem of Mojang’s asinine version numbering will continue to be a problem for any modding, server, building and resource pack projects past 1.19.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Mojang’s asinine version numbering

    They do what now?

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Previously, they had the versioning system 1.MAJOR.MINOR, where Major referred to a feature update, and minor referred to bug fixes or other non-breaking technical changes

    The first instance where they broke this was 1.16.2 by adding the Piglin Brute, but this was so minor that hardly anyone really cared, and hey, free feature with a minor update!

    Well, now they have update "drops" where the minor version means either what it used to, or it's also a feature update, just not as big as a full update.

    From the wiki:

    • 1.20: Trails and Tales Update
    • 1.20.3: Bats and Pots Drop
    • 1.20.5: Armored Paws Drop
    • 1.21: Tricky Trials Update
    • 1.21.2: Bundles of Bravery Drop
    • 1.21.4: The Garden Awakens Drop
    • 1.21.5: Spring to Life Drop
    • 1.21.6: Chase the Skies Drop
    • 1.21.9: Copper Age Drop
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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    That’s close to how the numbering system works! It’s MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH, Mojang just doesn’t use the major part at all.

    Also I completely forgot the piglin brute existed! Also netherite templates got added it the 1.16 patch versions too if I am remembering right.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    the problem is that the way version numbers are handled now, it's more like 1.MAJOR.MINOR, with no real definition of what counts as a "minor" update, so it's hard to tell which versions are compatible. i feel like this problem would mostly go away if they either added another number to the version to signify patches, or actually used semver properly (they could mix these approaches to do something similar to java, so the next version would be 22.0.0)

    i feel like this whole version debacle is only gonna get worse because microsoft is planning to move to a "content drop" model, with smaller more frequent updates, which means even more pressure on the "patch" version. so unless their update model or versioning systen changes, we'll probably be playing 1.21.37 in a couple of years, and good luck figuring out which of those versions are actually compatible

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Mojang started adding in substantive resource pack changes in the patches for 1.19. Which made it more annoying for resource pack artists to support the update their since it required 2 separate versions of a pack to be made and maintained just to make sure it works properly. Let alone the annoyance of having to constantly deal with people complaining about it not working when it is an issue Mojang made.

    There is also Mojang’s censorship of their community that began in the 1.19 patch versions which allowed Mojang to just ban anyone for saying something they didn’t like. Servers largely just disable it since it’s a headache to deal with and it doesn’t benefit them at all, only Mojang.

    Then in 1.20 and 1.21 Mojang began adding content in the patches so it makes it a nightmare to support the patch versions since they now function differently than they used to. Which only makes it harder for servers to update and makes the experience of joining servers more frustrating. So plenty of servers on those updates just blacklist certain versions just to make sure things are able to function.

    Oh and at some point Mojang added censorship to player skins. And it can be triggered by just mass reporting any individual skin for any reason.

    Basically Mojang made a fuck ton of problems where none needed to be or used to be.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Also I just want to add this, but I was sounding the alarm on the patch version problem back in the 1.19 days. The community at the entire either ignored me or called me crazy for pointing out how it was problematic. Now the community is growing more and more annoyed and I’m just sitting over here saying I told you so.

    I’ve mostly stopped playing the game because of Mojang’s constant shitty choices and because of the community refusing to call Mojang out on their bullshit.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The no chat reports mod and having community hosted servers that don't really need to give a damn about what Mojang thinks (I'll convert my server to support cracked accounts if I have to) kind of pulls the heavy lifting to allowing players to keep playing without having to give a shit about overall moderation by the company.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The no chat reports mod is great but it still is an uphill battle to get players to install it. We also need to focus on putting on Mojang to remove the problematic system in the first place so the experience is better for everyone including Bedrock players.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Installing the mod (or plugin) server-side strips all player chat messages of the information that makes them reportable, so no requirement is needed for the client (Although recommended for complete protection and for usage on non-compatible servers)

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Fuckin right?

    ALSO can Mojang get my goshfuckin ALPHA account back that Microsoft deleted because I wasn’t paying attention to their bullshit during COVID and now it’s gone forever even if I make a Microsoft account which I will never do and now I have to pay money to Microsoft (which I will also never do and have never done)?

    I’m pretty sure it was promised to me that I’d have Minecraft access forever because I bought an alpha account, but I guess now I have to give point to a horrible soulless corp to buy it again.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (27 children)

    Why not go open source? What are they so afraid of, given anyone can now see the source code by using a simple tool?

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Do you mean source available or actually open source?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (13 children)

    I mean releasing the source under a license like GPL (or whatever the modern equivalent is).

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  • [–] 63 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Because then anyone could fork it and redistribute the game which I presume they don't want.

    It would be sweet for us if they did, but I can see why they don't want to do that.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    They could distribute source ports of the game, but you'd still have to buy the game in order to make use of them. Textures, sound effects, animations, etc. are (usually) not source code.

    That's why people still buy Doom 2 even though it was open-sourced in 1997.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Fork it and use your own texture and sound pack doesn't sound like much work tbh. Any major modpack could just redistribute the game as a fork and it would be awesome. But Microsoft probably don't want that.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    The small amount of sales of doom 2 today is not at all comparable to the massive amount of minecraft sales and minecraft-related microtransactions that microsoft is raking in. Doom has many modern sequels that are far more popular today than doom 2, while minecraft does not have any official sequel.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    And Hytale got shitcanned!

    It's actually amazing that in an industry so hell-bent on copying successful formulas ad-nauseam (e.g. Quake&Doom spawning the whole genre of First Person Shooters), Minecraft has not seen anything reach the status of spiritual successor in over 15 years of charts-topping sales performance. Not from its own studio, not from its former creator, not with the Late Hypixel Studios.

    There are survival games and base-building games and exploration games, but none of them are "Minecraft-likes" in the way that early FPS were "Quake-likes". CS has Valorant. LoL has Dota. Tekken has Street Fighter. PUBG has Fortnite has Roblox. Minecraft somehow remains truly one-of-a-kind, a gaming UFO that eludes suits looking for a replicable formula. I actually believe Mojang themselves don't understand why Minecraft works in the first place either, which is why every update seemingly either underwhelms or angers everyone. That game is lightning in a bottle and no-one knows what to do with it.

    If Nadella had a stroke so bad he decided to make Minecraft FOSS, I'd be really interested to see what would happen. If any for-profit company was allowed to make direct Minecraft derivatives, I do think we would see a level of creativity and innovation that would dwarf even the already extremely prolific current modding scene.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    What proportion of those sales are for Java edition? This sounds like an attempt to make mods and therefore java edition into a more popular/appealing product. They know that most users are not going to do anything with source code.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I thought they were still hoping to convince people to use Bedrock so they had to buy Windows.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Open source includes unlimited distribution. The game is still paid and they want to reserve distribution rights.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Open-source and source-available are used interchangeably. Releasing the source does not mean the license will allow any form of redistribution or recompilation.

    If you decompile the game yourself you can infinitely distribute the game as well. This is not an argument.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    To add to this, it's exclusively available on the Microsoft Store, which has gotten so bad lately that I refused the terms on their most recent update and haven't had it installed on any machines since.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    It isn't? Minecraft: Java Edition (which is getting deobfuscated) is available on their website for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Minecraft: Bedrock Edition has nothing to do with these news.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    I could be mistaken but I'm 90% sure the website redirects you to buy it on the Microsoft Store, which is also how it will be installed and launched.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No it isn't. On Windows there are two versions of Minecraft. "Minecraft: Bedrock Edition" available as a UWP using the Microsoft Store, written in C++ and supporting crossplay with the Minecraft releases for consoles and mobile phones and "Minecraft: Java Edition" available through minecraft.net, written in Java and supporting crossplay with the MacOS and Linux versions.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The Java and Bedrock edition came bundled together for me. Maybe theres a way to redeem it somewhere other than the store, but I am still pretty sure its been the way I described ever since Minecraft was purchased by Microsoft.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    You can use the same license for both, and your purchase includes access to both versions regardless of how you buy it, unless that's changed very recently when I wasn't looking.

    Officially, both versions also explicitly require you to create (or already have) a Microsoft account to sign-in and play. Unofficially, the Java version is dead easy to pirate.

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