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[–] 109 points 1 year ago* (16 children)

Someone asked what makes the original Tron so good the other day and, even as a fan of Tron, I could not come up with an answer.

I just think it's neat.

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  • [–] 55 points 1 year ago

    It was a product of its time. Had the story and certainly the same effects been released decades later it wouldn't have gone anywhere. That's where Legacy was able to succeed, they didn't just run with a sequel of the same stuff, they took what Tron started and added things relevant to a modern audience. I have yet to see Ares so I can't say if it brings anything new besides flashier graphics (maybe too flashy?)

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    In it's time, the special effects were mind blowing. We little boys were like, "OMG! Light cycles!"

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I feel like even today, the CGI is super impressive for 1982 (?).

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    given that the metaphorical inside of a computer is usually imagined to look... well, computer-y, i think 1980's CG is spot on.

    i remember mom telling me as a kid (~2004) "now don't judge the CG too harshly, it's very old" and i was like "are you kidding? this looks AWESOME!"

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    The impressive thing is they did all those visuals without a gui. They had to calculate and hand code every element and wouldn't know if it worked until the film was developed.

    Edit: they also weren't eligible for best visual effects because they "cheated" by using computers.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The original Tron was pretty groundbreaking as a movie released in 1982, at least from the visual perspective.

    It spawned a bunch of derivative works - the animated show Reboot, the Matrix franchise, games like the CCG "Netrunner", books like Neuromancer and Ready Player One.

    Nevermind all the technical hurdles they had to accomplish in order to generate these effects. No way you get to Toy Story or the Marvel franchises without the entry-level effort of Information International, Inc. or Mathematical Applications Group.

    Surface level, sure. It was your standard "Computers Ate My Dad" silly Disney story. But it mainlined a certain flavor of SciFi/Fantasy and popularized animation techniques that have matured substantially since then.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Unless the 3rd book I have yet to read is about being inside a computer system, Neuromancer is so far from being derivative of Tron, I don't know how it ended up on your list. 🤨

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Neuromancer is so far from being derivative of Tron

    Wintermute and Neuromancer, as superintelligent computers orchestrating an evil business empire, strike me as direct parallels to the CPU in Tron.

    And the Cowboys, jacking in to outwit these AIs from within their own digital landscape, echo the Tron heroes combating evil computer minions in gladiatorial games.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    You have it the wrong way around if anything.

    If you read Burning Chrome, you can see all the Gibsonian cyberspace elements where already there in something that was FINISHED IN 1981.

    The first outline of Neuromancer, titled "Jacked In" is from the same year.

    Gibson had no idea about what he was talking about and that's why his work is not derivative in any way of other sci-fi work on the subject.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    If you read Burning Chrome, you can see all the Gibsonian cyberspace elements where already there in something that was FINISHED IN 1981.

    Lisberger, Tron's creator, was shopping around the idea for the movie as early as '78.

    But sure, these ideas weren't strictly concurrent. They both came out of real life computer and Internet development inspiring the themes within the media.

    Point being, Tron popularized an idea that catapulted similar media.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    First tron is boring as balls with good visuals.

    Legacy was entertaining while still boring as balls but that soundtrack may well be the best soundtrack ever made. Plus it has the most banging pinball machine release ever.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Back in 82 we weren't all carrying an internet link in our pocket. Computers were in arcades and sometimes at work (but only used by specialists.) Impossible to recapture that moment in time.

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  • [–] 48 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I won't watch anything with Jared Leto in it. Ever.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    As someone who doesn't know who Jared Leto is: why? Is he that bad of an actor, or is there something else?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    For one, he's the leader of a cult where he cosplays as Jesus and allegedly sexually assaults people

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    I loved Tron Legacy. Maybe it was the right movie for me at the time but I couldn't believe it did so poorly. Amazing visuals/art direction, amazing soundtrack, and decently solid story.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    This was my introduction to the franchise.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I wish I still had all my small box pc games from that era. I still have quite a few, but i would love the box for this one, Prey, and RCT2.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    It felt like I was watching a chapter out of a much longer book, but without the rest of the book for reference. Yes, cool visuals and descent acting and some fun action sequences. But it began and ended in such a way that I couldn't really understand what was going on and never landed at a satisfying end point.

    Disney has a habit of doing this with a lot of properties. SW: The Force Awakens had this vibe as well, as though there was a bunch of companion material I was supposed to have worked through before getting to the actual movie. The last couple of Indiana Jones movies, too.

    They don't know how to just make a movie. Its always got to be some snippet from an enormous vision of an end-to-end experience. It's not for me because I didn't re-watch the original before playing the game and solving the secret riddle that ships me a copy of the comic book that kinda sorta explains wtf is going on.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    as though there was a bunch of companion material I was supposed to have worked through before getting to the actual movie.

    Those movies are all sequels. There is companion material - the movies they're sequels to

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    There's a huge time gap between the original Tron and Legacy. The sentient computer protagonist and her tribe are just kinda revealed and then dropped. Maybe they had additional content planned for release and it died on the drawing board. But so much of the story revolves around the fighting, the in-movie world building remains comparatively threadbare.

    Compare that to The Matrix or Jurassic Park, both of which do a better job of building out the world even within the context of conflict between the main characters and the various world hazards.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    There's a huge time gap between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, but everyone understands that you're gonna be lost if you just jump into The Force Awakens blind.

    I'm not trying to excuse bad writing, don't get me wrong - there are definitely problems with The Force Awakens and with Tron: Legacy that should have been solved in the writing room, and even then they probably wouldn't hold up to franchises like Jurassic Park or The Matrix. I just think it's kinda funny that you pointed out that it feels like there should be companion material for these movies, even though there absolutely is companion material for these movies.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    There’s a huge time gap between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, but everyone understands that you’re gonna be lost if you just jump into The Force Awakens blind.

    They just reset the entire franchise to "Okay, but now the Empire is in charge again and the Rebels are on the run again and you have to beat the Death Star again". It's very easy to understand precisely because they abandoned the conclusion of the prior movie and just sent you back to the beginning of "A New Hope" again.

    I just think it’s kinda funny that you pointed out that it feels like there should be companion material for these movies, even though there absolutely is companion material for these movies.

    "We could have made six movies in between when Movie 1 ends and Movie 2 begins, but we're hoping you'll just pick it up off the backhanded remarks scattered around the 10' mark" is weak writing.

    The Matrix is great precisely because they spend so much time with the setup, but in a way that's still engaging with the audience. Jurassic Park gives you some time to marvel at the dinosaurs and learn where they came from, even playing on the impatience to "Show them to me!" by expressing it with the characters themselves in the middle of the expository scene.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah I already said I'm not trying to excuse bad writing. I explicitly called out that those movies have bad writing, and I explicitly called out that even if the writing was improved, they still probably wouldn't be comparable to the Jurassic Park or Matrix franchises. We both acknowledge and agree that the Jurassic Park and Matrix franchises have better writing than Tron and Star Wars. That's allowed. We're allowed to agree on things on the Internet, I promise.

    Literally all I'm pointing out is that if you watch the previous movies, you will be less lost than if you just watch the sequel by itself. I don't understand how that's a controversial point worthy of multiple paragraphs of response.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    There was also a gigantic amount of content between Jedi and Awakens. Books, games, other movies, RPGs, so many toys and spin off ideas. This is a really bad example.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Right? It's hard to think of a franchise with more companion material than Star Wars

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    So you agree it's not the time jump but the lack of any material covering the time jump that is the problem.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    The sentient computer protagonist and her tribe are just kinda revealed and then dropped because CLU killed them all and she is the last one.

    The ISO's, they were going to be my gift to the world.

    Flynn was planning to bring the ISOs into the real world

    And then CLU betrays Flynn and kills all the ISOs except Quorra, who escaped with Flynn off the grid

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    I think the problem was that Tron wasn't exactly a super beloved, super popular franchise but it was like they expected it to be and marketed the movie like it was. I also realized I remember basically nothing about the plot and all my fond memories of the movie are the visuals and soundtrack. I almost think it would have been better if the movie had nothing to do with "Tron" and was just its own thing inspired by Tron, but then it would have never gotten the funding that it got.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    I liked it too. It was basically just a long music video for Daft Punk with cool visuals. Looks like Nine Inch Nails does the soundtrack for this one, which I also like. I won't watch it in the movie theater (haven't been in years), but I will definitely torrent it when it comes out on home release.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    It doesn't matter if it bombs, it's just really cool, striking visuals, and that's good enough for Disney. They just need an anchor property to use as inspiration for all the other things they sell - rides, toys, books, games, TV series, clothes, dishes, sheets, etc. Beyond that, it is one more attraction in the parks around the world, attracting tourists to stay in their hotels, and eat in their restaurants.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    It doesn’t matter if it bombs, it’s just really cool, striking visuals, and that’s good enough for Disney.

    ...

    They just need an anchor property to use as inspiration for all the other things they sell - rides, toys, books, games, TV series, clothes, dishes, sheets, etc. Beyond that, it is one more attraction in the parks around the world, attracting tourists to stay in their hotels, and eat in their restaurants.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    It's true, though. You market the shit out of the movie just to get people to watch Jared "Don't Ask What I've Been Up To On Tinder" Leto dress like an 8-bit gladiator and do some stunts.

    Then the movie becomes another advertising vehicle for the game. And the game becomes an advertisement for the Disney Park. And the park is stuffed full of adverts for the next movie.

    It's all one giant marketing ouroboros. From the outside, yeah, it looks crazy. But when you're being shit out and eaten over and over again, you're convinced that you're having a great time.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Fungible? Just barely more than a well-designed screensaver? "OK, the marketing's in place, now we need the product." "Sure, let's go hire some creatives."

    Similar to op-ed about AI Music recently. It's basically background music.

    Get the family together for a movie night. Doesn't matter what it is, you'll all be on your phones anyway. Disney's safe and reliable, Tron is just slightly edgy, hey it's got a soundtrack by Nine Inch Nails, that brings back memories...

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I love how EVERY article references the NIN soundtrack.

    Everybody loves John Williams' thrilling film scores, the guy has won more Oscars than anyone, but they never promote a new blockbuster movie by screaming that it has a John Williams score.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (26 children)

    if you're someone who can enjoy art partially made by not-so-great to awful people, give it a watch. NIN fucking killed it with the soundtrack, it looks awesome, the writing is weirdly decent (good writing in a TRON movie? wtf??), and the acting is better than it has any right to be. thoroughly enjoyable imo

    my favorite franchise is Firefly so I'm used to stuff I like being made by awful people :(

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Firefly made by awful people? I guess you mean whedon? Or are there others?

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Adam Baldwin has been pretty far-right/anti-feminism/anti-LGBTQ/anto-“woke” for a long time. He’s MAGA. He was even a GamerGater back in the day.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Adam was the one who started the term GamerGate to begin with. (Not that that's some amazing leap of creativity. I hate how some unoriginal hack always has to throw "-gate" on any drama to make it sound juicy.)

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Calling Inara a whore every chance he gets now finally makes sense.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Whedon, you mean? Oh, it gets worse.

    A few years after the series ended, Tim Minear, IIRC, put up a page where he outlined what the plans which never got fulfilled were. Or maybe it was a transcript of an interview, or something. I forget exactly what.

    What I do remember, however, is the resolution to the Mal/Inara will-they-won’t-they.

    So. Remember in the pilot when they think they’re going to be boarded by reavers? There’s that shot where Inara opens up a wooden box to reveal a syringe. Now, most people assumed that that meant she was going to kill herself rather than be taken alive.

    No no no no no.

    Oh no. That was a special Companion syringe full of a special Compaion drug. What does the drug do? It makes her vagina toxic. So anybody who has sex with her will die.

    Cut to a future episode. Serenity is overrun by reavers. “Hundreds”, IIRC. Inara is the only person trapped aboard. The episode focuses on the rest of the crew trying to rescue her. They eventually get on board to find her in a bad way, surrounded by corpses. Every single reaver raped her and died as a result.

    Mal picks her up and carries her to sickbay, and is then very attentive and loving while she recovers.

    Yup, that’s what brings them together in the end.

    I love Firefly. But, having read the ideas for the future (and knowing what I now know about Whedon), I’m glad it only had 13 episodes. It can be this beautiful little jewel of a show, before they had the chance to fuck it up.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I have to disagree on the NIN soundtrack. I am a big fan of theirs but this was just a complete let down. There were maybe two notable tracks, and even then they were nothing to share with anyone. Trent Reznor has done way better music for movies in the past.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    I hate to say it, but I agree. It felt mostly like a Trent Reznor soundtrack with a few proper NIN songs added on. It wasn't bad, but it didn't live up to my expectations. Oh well, at least it got NIN back together for a tour. I thought I'd never be able to see them live again.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Agreed that only 2 tracks are notable (Infiltrator and Target Identified), because the majority of the soundtrack is cinematic ambient pieces. Which, those are just ok (especially compared to Daft Punk whose ambient tracks were exceptional in addition to the action pieces Derezzed and the End Titles)

    I just like ambient music, haha. I do kinda wish there were more bumpin industrial pieces but if that was the entire movie soundtrack it would have gotten old quickly and made the entire movie seem like an overly long music video, I think. Also my mom wouldn't have liked it as much I bet, lol

    I liked it but I totally get why a lot of people were disappointed. Actually my sister agrees with you ("there wasn't enough NIN!" she said iirc)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I do think the daft punk 2010 movie was nailed hard. This was more mellow and not memorable, though that is normal for most movies. I think the "pop single" track release promoted by the movie is a decent song, but its also a cheezy marketing stunt for it, and not "real sountrack" or well integrated into the movie.

    OTOH, I liked the mixed reality motorcycle game reboot.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    First of all, check out !nin@lemmy.world

    Second, I like this mix that re-frames the soundtrack as an EP:

    1. Init/Shadow Over Me
    2. I Know You Can Feel It
    3. Target Identified/Infiltrator/As Alive As You Need Me to Be
    4. Who Wants to Live Forever?
    5. New Directive

    So you got the 4 lyrics songs, introduced by the instrumentals that echo them, and with a 5th instrumental song as the end credits. It's basically an EP, so you can compare it to the events/violence/witch EPs.

    It's a slight step down. With the previous EPs, I get the feeling Trent and Atticus had new ideas they wanted to explore. For this EP, it sounds like they were hired for a job. (hey nothing wrong with that, but the motivation's different.)

    "Init/Shadow Over Me" is ok, kinda standard. "I Know You Can Feel It" is probably the best of the four, though still just re-hashing older ideas. "Target Identified/Infiltrator/As Alive As You Need Me to Be" is a great song but I associate it too much with that trailer involving the guy from Morbius. "Who Wants to Live Forever?" really should be the best song, BUT by all the gods that woman's voice is so weak! Is that some kinda post-ironic thing they're going for that I just don't get? "New Directive" is just another instrumental, the person who remixed this coulda left it off. Tho I do gotta say I like how the instrumentals reference both Daft Punk 's and Wendy Carlos' soundtracks.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    Soundtrack on the Deadmau5 Daft Punk Tron was banging as well. NIN did the soundtrack for this one? How did I not know this. Gonna crank the sub to 11.

    I know my next pick for family movie night.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I'm 99% sure you mean Daft Punk, unless there's some obscure non-film Tron soundtrack that the internet is nearly completely unaware of.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You're right! Guess it's the helmets and the mouse head that got me confused.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That did get me wondering what a Deadmau5 Tron soundtrack would be like, though

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That would have been pretty sick.

    Been listening to a fair amount of Outrun/Synthwave. Timecop1983, Gunship, Kavinsky, The Midnight. Some of it is kind of silly, but it's a lot of fun to zoom down a backroad with the radio cranked.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You may have just convinced me to give it a watch. This is the first comment I find on Lemmy stating that the soundtrack was on-point and not shitting on the writing.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    I mean, the writing is still "wE gOtTa Go InSidE tHe CoMpuTeR!" because it's TRON, lol. But this one's plot was surprisingly straightforward and devoid of contradictions and inconsistencies.

    The original and moreso Legacy has some absolutely convoluted plot bullshit (especially with the ISO programs) going on that didn't ruin it or anything (at least for me because I'm mainly here for cool CG and Jeff Bridges) but a more self-aware writing team could have kept it tighter.

    The worst writing of the series was in that short-lived show where they un-self-awarely had Elijah Wood be corrupted by the One Ring. Er, One Frisbee. 🤦‍♀️

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago

    Loved the first one, second one was ok, i refuse to watch Jared leto

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Jeff Bridges. Love him as the Dude (obviously) but also loved him in Tron. I think he’s actually a pretty underrated actor because of how famous he is in The Big Lebowski.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    All of this had happened before, all of this will happen again

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    @Hammerjack it is sad as I’ve enjoyed each one more than the previous.

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    [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Tron: Arse would be a better name for the new installment

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    jared leto is probably the reason, so much so hes the only one on the front cover, and no women wants to be nex tto him.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    I fee like these movies are aimed at someone like me, a tech nerd that loves action movies and rides a motorcycle. But somehow, these movies don't resonate with me at all. IMHO the plot is weak, half of the time the movie doesn't make any sense, it just feels like a random vibe movie which just isn't for me.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    Tron and Legacy both made double their budget, tron made 50 million on a 17 million budget and Legacy made 400 on a 170 million budget.

    I would only consider a movie a bomb if it fails to make it's money back...

    Something like Speed Racer (2008), which is an awesome movie, but only made 93 million on a 120 million budget.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    First two were good. Haven't seen the latest, but not interested.

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