Aside from men being horny in the 1800s, and this being a holdover since that time, is there any actual reason why this hasn't changed?

If society was dominated by women, would this be more likely to change?

I was sweating my ass off hiking in the hot sun, and the question has been bothering me all day after my top soaked through with sweat.

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[–] 91 points 1 year ago (3 children)

They also don’t want to be photographed and end up with their tits all over social media. Places where this used to be routine (European beaches and so on) there is a lot less of this than 30 years ago. Another thing mobiles phones and social media have made worse

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  • [–] 55 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    In much of Europe and North America, female toplessness is legal. As for why women don't take advantage of it when exercising, breast movement varies from annoyance to uncomfortable and throwing off momentum depending upon size. As a result, many women exercise wearing what is most convenient: a sports-bra top. However, concerns about harassment are sadly valid.

    Women are the majority of voting age adults, but they aren't a homogeneous group voting exclusively on gender. 45% of women voted for Trump in 2024.

    As a male who exercises in high heat on occasion (35-38c), I have never once thought that I'd rather be naked. I wear breathable, light colored clothing. I also wear a top. Sun burns aren't healthy.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    breast movement varies from annoyance to uncomfortable

    As a teenager and young woman, not being able to find a good super supportive sports bra for my weird size was one of the reasons I stopped trying to exercise.

    I still hold my boobs automatically when taking the stairs or when I run somewhere. Otherwise it hurts and feels like my breasts are being torn away from my body.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I'm sorry you gave up exercise because of this. Female friends telling me the same is what inspired me to write the response. One was an amazing long distance runner who had breast reduction surgery in high school so she could continue her passion.

    Sports bras are a necessary evil for many women. It's not a societal restriction but a physical preference for less discomfort.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Kudos to your friend going through with a reduction to pursue her passion!

    In my case, I have a very small band width, so I cannot shop in regular stores. (In my city, there is exactly one shop that has my size.) As a teen and young woman, I simply didn't have the money to even consider a 50€ sports bra, let alone a 100€+ one. And since the selection is super limited, I didn't even find one in my size that would - no matter the money - give enough support for comfort.

    Funnily enough, regular wired bras with cups still ended up giving better support than any sports bra I could find. But they still only work so well. (And I, by far, wasn't as passionate about sports as to get a reduction, or spend my limited bra money on a semi working, ugly sports bra.)

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    My friend was committed, but it helped that it was not uncommon for larger endowed teens where I grew up. Doctors openly discussed the option and it was covered by government health insurance.

    I can sympathize with the difficulty of finding the right size. It wasn't until my wife traveled to her country of ancestry and measured at a department store in her 20s that she finally obtained her first bras that truly fit. They still weren't cheap. I think that is when I learned the burden of what is, for most, a medical support garment.

    And that is what I find so frustrating. Bras should be treated like a medical device: basic models that fit well should be covered by government health care. The 200-400% markup in most prices is outrageous, and there would be a positive return for society with women more confident in more activities.

    Of course, I live in the United States, so we've regressed to the point of figuring out whether dying of communicable diseases is bad.

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  • [–] 98 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    It’s legal where I live, but nobody does it cause women don’t wanna be stared at and cat called when they’re walking around titties out

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    A few women I've asked are happy with it being illegal - they say they just don't want to see it. I don't think I've ever met a man who wants it to stay illegal, because for the most part they do want to see it

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    As a guy I kinda laugh to myself about those guys who walk around without a shirt on down the street

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Yeah. There's the dudes who have spent a lot of time at the gym, and really want the opportunity to let everyone know that. Then there's the schlubby dudes who are just feeling too hot and DGAF what anyone else thinks. Not sure who's more worthy of respect, there

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I live in Ontario, Canada, where it's perfectly legal for women to be topless.

    I've never actually seen anyone exercise that right (at least in person), but it's a right.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Legally it's allowed but socially it isn't. We can't go topless without being endlessly harassed and probably assaulted. It was bad enough when I walked home with my bikini top after going swimming.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    They can, but harassment from men keeps lots of women from doing so. We already get harassed when we're covered.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    So I get that socially in most places it is not acceptable for women to go totally topless. We can argue about double standards, but I'll let other people do that.

    What I actually have noticed is that nowadays in a lot of Western cultures, women can get away with just wearing just a bra with no shirt in public. No, it's still not being totally topless, but it is a lot better heat-wise than wearing both a bra and then a shirt on top. Just it can't be like lingerie, but more like a sports bra or something. I've done it when heading into a shop after going for a run and not gotten any complains. I see others just occasionally walking around in something a sports bra when it's hot out, not even relating to intense exercise. Try it.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Pretty much anywhere you'll see people who exercise where their workout clothes around town for a bit. I live in the Midwest which gets stupidly humid in the summer, and I've seen plenty of women around with sports bras or something similar (like a workout crop or something). It's just another thing, like when people wear those tiny running shorts.

    Although one time at work I did witness a very old leathery man come into the store I worked at in his running attire. Let me tell you, his shorts were like speedos how short they were, and they were TIGHT. Like you saw everything and it was all being pushed forward too, so it made it look like he had this ridiculous bulge.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    There was a movement to decriminalise women being topless (because it is actively criminalised in a lot of places). Unfortunately it's fallen off. It's particularly ridiculous because women are the ones who have an actual need to expose their breasts in public, ie some women need to breastfeed—no men need to.

    Some people get turned on seeing topless men but it's not a sex crime for men to be shirtless in public. Free the nipple 2025

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Pretty sure breastfeeding is protected all over the US. It certainly is in Florida.

    I'm not even big in that department, don't wear a bra for yoga, but running? That needs a sport bra, and working outside I wear long sleeves to keep the sun off.

    I do think beaches here should allow topless suits for women though. That might go a long way towards desexualizing simple nudity, people would get used to it. I agree that it ought not be a rule that you have to cover your boobs at all if you don't want to.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago

    Some people get turned on seeing topless men but it’s not a sex crime for men to be shirtless in public.

    This is the thing that really bothered me. It's so one-sided. Perhaps people won't be comfortable doing it, for various reasons, but the legal limitation is what actually irritates me. One silver lining is that a lot of places are starting to allow it, even if culturally, it hasn't picked up yet.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    @communism > Some people get turned on seeing topless menIf someone sees my torso and gets aroused, why is it my problem? Moreover, why is this even a problem at all? You get hots from other people? Congratulations, you're human.All of this is such a non-issue. And it's just to keep women down.@Wahots

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    The enlightened masses constitute a percentage of the total population far lower than you'd think

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    In my experience (as a trans woman who has experienced both sides of this coin), I can no longer get away with being topless in most situations. However, I can get away with wearing less in more situations. It's acceptable for me to wear a short cut, sleeveless tank top or boob tube in situations where it would be difficult for a guy to wear a singlet or other sleeveless top.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I am personally very upset that on some specific day during my transition, it was no longer acceptable for me to be shirtless in public. During summer I get consent from visitors to my house, and have my housemates consent, so go shirtless at home.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Holding on to some of that sweet sweet male privilege post transition i see :-)

    I read a sentence on here these days that kind of resonated with me in regards to if trans women are real women: Of course they are. Who else wants to be a woman in this world.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    As a (mostly) masc-presenting transfem enby, I'm anxious to reach that point for myself. I feel like I'm in a weird sort of limbo, 'cuz even after two years of hormone therapy I rarely draw any second glances when hiking topless on public trails.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Legally, a lot of places it's been court tested, and you actually can. Culturally, it's just kind of that way. Hair is banned in Arabia, tits can hang out in Papua New Guinea. The West says no boobs but hair is fine.

    A genital covering is the only cultural universal, although it can sometimes be overly revealing by Western standards, like with penis gourds.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    They can in many areas but chose not to. So you’d have to ask them why they don’t when they can. Why aren’t they setting an example for the other areas? Like New York I believe allows women to go topless. The Empire State. Home of the biggest or at least most populous state in America and they don’t do it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Home of the biggest or at least most populous state in America

    neither, actually. the largest by area is Alaska, while the most populous is California. New York does have the most populous city though.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    It's legal in most the US states too.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    In many countries in public spaces women can be topless wherever men can. Sadly it doesn't mean they feel safe/comfortable doing so.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    They can in Canada.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    In some countries you can, I believe Canada is one of them... at least I believe it's legal to do so in Toronto.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It is, but it never happens. I live at a beach where there are thousands of people on summer weekends, and it never happens.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Vancouver area: Wreck Beach and the South part of Crescent Beach are probably only some places where you would see women with no tops, because they also have no bottoms on.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    Vice versa, they can't wear skirts for hot days, but gals can.

    The answer is imho, holdovers from more sexist days, and a general attitude of not wanting to be seen as effeminate/photographed by creeps.

    Even though guys have been wearing kilts for many years, in various cultures; and there's AI slop now anyway that keeps 'em busy instead.

    Iirc it's also allowed in some countries. Naturism is bigger in them.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    As a man who owns multiple kilts I can confirm there will be some assholes that have something to say.

    On the other hand, those encounters have been outweighed by the compliments and enthusiasm I've also gotten.

    All that said, I say just do you. Haters gonna hate, people will judge. Stop caring about those people and live Your life.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Because of creeps, freaks, and prudes

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Aside from men being horny in the 1800s

    Men aren't horny now?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    Man here

    If you ladies wanna walk around shirtless at the gym and work out I personally have no objection and I promise I won't say a word to you.

    However you are going get looks, a lot of them.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    TIT SWEAT Need a bra to soak up the pools.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    A matter of social acceptability in general. Some societies, moreso before Western norms became widespread, don't view the breasts in a sexual way and a woman going topless would be completely unremarkable.

    Other than the breasts, some societies see the legs as very sexual, so they always cover the legs in public.

    I think it would be more likely to change in a female-dominant society, but they could just as well not change it for no obvious reason. I'm sure there's some nuance I'm glossing over, but even though it's legal for me to go out in my underwear as a man in a male-dominated society, I wouldn't do so voluntarily, regardless of the temperature.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Most people haven't had a thought since high school.

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  • Honestly, I don't think it is the men saying you can't be topless. It's other women. I am pretty sure that even though I would get used to boobs everywhere, I would still be in a generally better mood. Boobs just make most guys happy. I don't know if it would make women who are attracted to women happy too, but maybe.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    For what it's worth I think it's kinda weird for other guys to not wear a shirt in public, like dude what are you doing, put your shirt on.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Honestly I hate this take, saying everyone should have a to cover up to me is just was weird as saying one group should have to. There is literally no explanation you can give for this position that isn't a personal problem you should get over.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    it’s the same kind of statement as saying that, for example, politicians should wear suits… we tend to have expectations that everyone is dressed to a similar level for the context they’re in. in public, that expectation tends to include a shirt of some kind. shirtless is a similar level of “should have to” as arriving at work or a party dressed too casually

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    But the idea of politicians needing to wear suits is arbitrary too. Why keep meaningless standards? Something should have to be causing an actual problem to not be allowed.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    we have meaningless standards for a lot of things… just ask someone on the spectrum what they think of social norms and they’ll have a huge list of things that don’t make any logical sense that people just do

    i’m not saying it’s right, but it’s just something that humans do

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    I get what you're saying. I also think society is too sensitive about nudity in general. I'm certainly not saying men should be fined for not wearing a shirt, it's just my perspective. At the beach or pool is normal, but not just out on the street. Anyway I was only trying to say I don't think stardards between men and women are so different in this particular case. Well I mean standards are definitely different, but (laws aside) not black and white different.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Because there was a movement to make it socially acceptable for men in the 20th century that was successful while the equivalent one for women has been slower, but also has seen some successes resulting in places like New York, New York and Columbus, Ohio permitting female toplessness in public.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    You know, I've been in places with lots of nudity, and for the first day or so all you want to do is look. Then after that you stop looking and it just becomes normal. I imagine if women going topless was more common, guys would not look any more than they currently do.

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  • [+] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • because patriarchy only sees women as sexual objects.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Afaik they can. At least in NM.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    It's legal to be completely naked where I live, that doesn't mean that it's socially acceptable or that it won't count as "disturbing the order"(not what it's called legally, but it's tricky to translate into English well, "förargelseväckande beteende").

    But it isn't illegal to be naked😃. So they can, but they don't, usually

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Tbh, I'd much prefer if no one did.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    They can (Canada) but they don't because guys think with their hormones.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Guys in general like breasts and, until going topless is normalized, those who do will get looks. It's awkward, I'm sure. Perhaps we need a topless pride parade so no one is singled out and we can jumpstart the change in social norms.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Guys in some countries like breasts. I lived in a country where the top of the female was not considered private. I saw breasts regularly. After a couple of months, it was like looking at an elbow. Liking breasts is cultural.

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  • I think the normalize is a big part. When I go to music festivals there are quite a lot of topless women and no one cares. It kinda feels novel the first time or two, and then it's like, okay, this is normal.

    Normalizing it in the general public would be a lot harder though.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Yes, but also this is why I want guys to put their shirts back on.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    I'm not sure I get what you're saying? You're a guy and can't stop yourself from staring at other guys' chests?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    No, that's not it. The whole stupid thing revolves around a principle of parity, as you acknowledge. I'd just rather have it go the other way, and am willing to wear a shirt more if that's what has to be done to appease those who want perfect parity in clothing rules between sexes.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Interesting. I lean more towards equity rather than equality, and giving options rather than removing them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I said parity, but you know, anyway.

    Options are great and all, but they're not the be all and end all of self-actualization or whatever. Libertarians always try to sell capitalism and markets as radically freeing, while socialists and communists point out that markets are not inherently liberatory or fair or rational. Some would argue that giving a person the option to harm themselves is important because the freedom is more important than their well-being. A person has the right to spend their entire paycheck on scratchers or buy heroin and lieu of groceries or whatever. More options are not intrinsically beneficial.

    And running around shirtless is low stakes to be sure, but it's because of those low stakes that I'd rather it just be discouraged for everyone. Not criminal or anything, just kind of socially unacceptable, like chewing with your mouth open.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Reading the comments made me wonder how people react to elderly people in a female body and those considered unattractive who go topless. It's probably still harassment?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    During our CrossFit workouts, about 30%-50% of the guys and girls all ditch their shirts. Yes, the women are in sports bras, though the effect is similar and very much the norm.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Women compensate by only wearing the shortest of shorts during winter while men cover their ankles.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    You know why. What the heck kind of question is that?

    Men. That's why.

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