• The man who targeted and killed Democratic state lawmaker Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark in their home in Minnesota in June was a Trump supporter.

  • The man charged with the attempted assassination of Pennsylvania’s Democratic governor, Josh Shapiro, in April was a Trump supporter.

  • The man convicted of orchestrating a series of shootings at the homes of four Democratic elected officials in New Mexico in 2022 was a Trump supporter.

  • The man who tried to kidnap then Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and assaulted her husband, Paul, in 2022 was a Trump supporter.

  • The men who wanted to hang Mike Pence on Jan 6, 2021, were Trump supporters.

  • The man who killed the son of Obama-appointed District Judge Esther Salas in 2020 was a Trump supporter.

  • The men who were convicted of trying to kidnap Michigan’s Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer, in 2020 were Trump supporters.

  • The man who sent pipe bombs to the homes of Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and other top Democrats in 2018 was a Trump supporter.

  • The man who killed left-wing activist Heather Heyer after driving his car into a crowd of counter-protesters in Charlottesville in 2017 was a Trump supporter.

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[+] 32 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    Yeah. This is how fascists operate. They use their hypocrisy as a weapon to display that the law and our social contract have no power over them.

    Quit voting for them & shun those that still do.

    And by shun I mean deny them goods, services & civil interactions. Call the police on them for any infraction witnessed. Ridicule and harass them at every opportunity if you can do so safely and legally.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    My man died with "Counting or not counting gang violence?" on his lips. Of course his supporters are going to come out swinging with slurs and hoaxes and slanders.

    I can't imagine any better way to remember Charlie than with a bloody smear of reactionary propaganda.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    They use any excuse to smear the left. They don't use it in good faith, they use it as nazi propaganda. They keep reporting whatever makes their enemy look bad, while never reporting anything that makes them look bad. It's not news. It's just propaganda. 24/7.

    -fox bullshit: "Look, see - they're as bad as YOU are, and here's the fictional proof!"

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago
    [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Can’t pardon a hole in the neck.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

    It's gonna continue even if the shooter is revealed to be on the right. The mindset of a right winger is "Use this to build power" no matter the situation.

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  • Oh, do the protectors of pedophiles have opinions? The same ones as before. Very shocking.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    That should help them next time about as much as thoughts and prayers.

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  • 67 comments in c/progressivepolitics@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 76 points 1 year ago (39 children)

    It’s just a regular murder. Not even remotely are horrific as the KIDS that got shot in Colorado on that same day.

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  • [–] [S] 38 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    100%.

    The Colorado even is far far more important than some hate spewing trash catching lead feelings.

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  • [+] -29 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Because its a competition? You do know he has/had 2 young children, right? And now, you, and all the other ghouls are cheering on their fathers death. Funny how none of you give a tiny rats ass about those kids...

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  • [–] [S] 26 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    The man spent his life advocating for political violence. It's not a secret, it's not a mystery, and no amount of convoluted gymnastics changes how Charlie Kirk lived his life.

    I'm sorry for his children, that they were ever born to such a reprehensible, utterly devoid wad of human filth. But like children borne to abusers, this man's psychopathic hate that he turned into a fanatasism and a career that has poisoned the will of public discourse: his kids are better off with him dead than to live in the world which he was working, night and day, to create.

    What would you say to the children of Adolf Hitler, Or Goebells, or Polpot? That their father's political ambitions are worthy simply because he happened to spill his seed any where but his own palm?

    No. Spare me the crocodile tears. The man was a vehement and abhorrent racist. It's a better world for all and also for his children without him in it. Like a child should not have to grow up in a household of abuse, this man was an abuser of the very social fabric that marks all. Charlie Kirk had not one redeemable quality, and it's a better world without him in it.

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  • [+] -23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    The man spent his life advocating for political violence No he didnt. I never paid much attention to him before you all starting posting shit he said. But unlike you, I didnt just take the headlines word for it. Was a right winger? Yeah. Did he have some dog shit ideas? Yup. But he wasnt anything you lot claimed he was. The amount of shit you all posted thats been taken extremely out of context is fucking insane.

    You are no better than the maga weirdos who claim all the trans people are rubbing out in toilets, because fox news said it was so.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If Kirk was a fascist, then so are you. You both do the same things, coming from different angles. The reality is that social media morons have diluted the word, in much the same way the right wingers did with "woke". Youre all fucking morons, chasing buzzwords for easy, but worthless internet points. Its fucking sad how alike you both are, yet neither of you see it as you both scream "fascist!" at each other.

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  • Nobody is bound to be civil towards the uncivil, you stupid fuck. Learn how to break away from the Paradox of Tolerance like an adult. The intolerant will be met with intolerance. Treating fascists like fascists by acting like a fascist doesn't make anyone a fascist. It makes them reasonable.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I care about those kids. That's why I'm ecstatic that the shit head is worm food so they'll never have memories of hearing his BS in person.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago* (23 children)

    When was the last "regular murder" of this kind—against a political figure of such prominence? Say all you want about their bigotry, I agree, but that is currently mainstream politics. Like it or not, the kids were not prominent, and lives that are not prominent get buried despite their status as preventable horror.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    You can’t murder a Nazi. It’s just putting them down.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

    Dehumanization does nothing but feed into the bad faith right wing's smearing of progressivism as a whole. Even uprisings need to consider opponents as capable of thought and assume more than constant misery. Just using different words is not going to change reality for the better, especially if said words are misleading. This is the kind of rhetoric that can be used to justify them shooting us. It's just more excuses for Trump to create a police state.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    I understand what you’re saying but Trump just canceled his trip to Chicago so, I’d say you are proven wrong. The more this happens the more they fear, And since it is them getting hurt – I don’t see any problem here. You sound quite like a conservative, protecting conservatives. You should be ashamed of yourself

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (5 children)

    Assuming that's what you're talking about, Trump already talked about announcing sending the National Guard to Memphis instead of Chicago the night before the shooting; see https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/chicago-national-guard-deployment-in-question-ice-immigration-crackdown/.

    The threat of a police state and arbitrary removal is enough for progressive activists to defend against already; encouraging possible grassroots 4chan snipers on every building is not going to help. Furthermore, this shooting has allowed the Trump administration to prominently represent those like you with "If you read this, you are gay LMAO". (I am bi and I absolutely do not intend to say LGBTQ+ representation is bad for the movement; I am saying that this representation of us as closed-minded childish trolls encourages the right to make statements like those the Zeteo article is criticizing and act on them to "preserve national order".)

    We're under the whims of the state. We don't have an uprising. Until then, we should preserve the parts of the state that actually protect us as the only defense against the tools of oppression. If you want to debate people no matter how good or bad your arguments are without getting shot, you should have a problem with this, because the existence of the state precludes chipping away MAGA figureheads' bunkers without having the same done to progressive figures. Having to see bad arguments reach people all day is much better than those people pointing a gun at you.

    I think this thread represents other aspects of my views here well:

    https://kbin.melroy.org/m/anarchism@lemmy.dbzer0.com/t/1184816/Kirk-Assassination-Propaganda-of-the-Deed-and-Luigi

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I don’t agree. We need more 4chan Nazis popping people who aren’t “right wing” enough. The problem solves itself. I’m firm I’m my opinion.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    chances are they'll pop progressives instead. the charlottesville rally was called "unite the right", after all

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Like 2 months ago in Minnesota.

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  • [+] -16 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    The two state lawmakers were as prominent as Charlie Kirk?

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    No you're right that's insane. Two elected officials are obviously way more prominent than a YouTube personality.

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    I didn't hear about them before they died. And Turning Point is pretty much the MAGA youth league. Dismissing the US's most influential MAGA voices as just "a YouTube personality" is not doing anything any favor.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Just because he was prominent in your life doesn't mean he was to others. I've had to explain to more than a few people who he was since they'd never heard of him at all.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    What is your goal with these comments you are making?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    nothing more than the goals of the other commenters here

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  • [–] 46 points 1 year ago (19 children)
  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    kyle was so stupid, the magats couldnt even use him as a political talking head.

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  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Look, I get why he got away with homicide. Watch the video, pretend you are a juror, be cynical as you like. He had a solid case for self-defense.

    "Shouldn't have been there in the first place!", isn't a legal defense.

    So, I do agree that, under our legal framework as it exists, his self defense case was solid. The first shooting was 100% self defense. He had an aggressive man larger than him charging and chasing him unprovoked for some distance. That man then grabbed the barrel of the gun, which could have been used against him, which is a lethal threat for which lethal defense is justifiable.

    But where I think it gets less clear/reasonable is the second and third shoots. He ran from the scene where he shot someone rather than call the police and wait for them (this is the crux of my problem with the outcome of the judgement, which I'll come back to). Many bystanders understandably ran after him as it seemed he was evading the consequences of the shooting. Some physically assaulted him, including the second victim who who attacked him with a skateboard and tried to take his gun. The circumstances of this, from his perspective, are nearly identical to the first. But, notably, this assault and attempt to disarm is probably legal under Wisconsin law if there intent was to restrain him to deliver him to the police (i.e. citizen's arrest) as he had been witnessed committing what could have reasonably been viewed as a felony and reasonable force is allowed to execute and arrest. Nothing done to him would be illegal if a citizens arrest was deemed appropriate. Though that is inconsequential in determining self defense as it is about the mindset of the shooter that matters, and this attack would reasonably lead him to fear for his safety as he could not know if they were simply arresting him or indeed attacking him for retribution. So his shooting there was also self-defense under our current legal system.

    Then, given his mindset and fear for his life, when he came face to face with someone weilding a gun, and that person made a move to raise their weapon, firing at them was likely justified as self defense given all of the facts that he was privy to at the time too. This was the ruling made, and I think that the law as is was probably on his side here.

    But I don't think it should have been, entirely.

    Two things to point out here. First, had the other guy with a gun shot him instead, it would have been equally justifiable for the same reasons. He could have claimed self defense for the exact same reasons Kyle did, and he should and would likely have been found not guilty for exactly the same reasons. This is interesting from a legal stand point because that means two people can be independently justified in shooting/killing the other at a given moment and have no legal consequences for it under the law as it is. But I think that that is wrong, at least in this case.

    The reason I think this is wrong relates to my second point. The kid ran. Was it understandable that a kid was scared shitless after just being attacked and shooting someone? Absolutely. Was it reckless and negligent and the direct cause the outcomes any to happen? Yes!

    There is room in the law to hold someone accountable to gross negligence, where you know full well that a dangerous or illegal outcome is very likely if you do something and yet you do it anyway. For example, leaving a child in a car on a hot day. It doesn't matter your intent in such cases, you're still responsible for the outcome, period. I don't necessarily think that, in this situation, it quite rises to the level of gross negligence. It could definitely be argued, but it's hard to say you should know that running from the scene like this would have likely led to two other shootings and one more death. Mainly because as that really depends on the unpredictable mental states and actions of others. However, I think there should still be room for accountability here.

    If your actions are at all negligent (even if not grossly so), and through those actions you cause others to fear for their lives and this results in gross consequences like death or serious injuries, I think you still should bare some legal responsibility for this. That is even if the circumstances you find yourself in, outside of the context of how you got into those circumstances, justifies your actions therin.

    Another such example being the murder of Treyvon Martin. George Zimmerman can argue all day that he was justified in killing that kid in defense, but the fact of the matter is that he died because he unreasonably created a circumstance where both parties feared for their safety and then someone died.

    I don't know to what extent they need to be found responsible/guilty in those situations or what the degree of punishment should be. Generally negligent crimes are treated as somewhat lesser given no criminal intent. But I know that no responsibility and no punishment is not justice.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    What if, they are cunts for doing it, AND, so it is anyone else doing it now?

    Seriously, why the fuck is "they are cunts" now the go to excuse for being a cunt????

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (13 children)
  • [+] -15 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    I take it reading isnt your strong suit, mate?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Funny I looked you up and basically everyone dislikes your opinions on this platform 😂 I think you might be the one with the issue

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  • [+] -14 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    I do have an issue. All you cunts laughing at a dead man, laughing at the trauma his kids are going through, and calling for more deaths for the high crime of people who dont agree with you. Youre all fucking batshit insane. The fact you think being surrounded means Im the asshole, is a fucking wild theory, mate. Maybe take a look at the echo chamber you are in, and ask yourself if laughing at people being murdered and the subsequent pain of their loved ones makes you the fucking good guy in all this... Spoiler alert, it doesnt. Its fucking ghoulish behaviour. The fact there so many of you, is fucking scary.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    "Disagreement" is not the same thing as doing active harm to myself and people I care about. His right to speech ends where violating the rights of others begins.

    Imagine YOUR child gets murdered in cold blood and some scumbag shithead goes on national TV and talks about how they're a necessary sacrifice and we should be ready to accept that, and then prevents any action that could prevent the next one.

    Here's my free speech: while I don't condone extrajudicial murder, the world is better off without him and I won't pretend it's not because of how that came to be. It's a tragedy that his children will grow up without a father, but the hundreds of families of murdered children that won't have to hear him mocking and fighting them will grow up in a better world. Plenty of horrible people who do horrible things have families. If you want to be remembered fondly, stop doing horrible things.

    And you want to talk about ghoulish? Being a good father to your children with the money you get from stripping rights from other people and ruining their lives and ability to have good relationships and lives of their own, and not feeling the tiniest bit of remorse about it? That's ghoulish. That's the definition of ghoulish.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Not only did he excuse gun violence and the deaths of innocent people, he also disparaged the concept of empathy. Now that he is the victim of the gun system he endorsed, you expect us to offer him the empathy that he denied other, more worthy people?

    People who don't offer respect or tolerance to others, shouldn't expect it in return. It's not a difficult concept to understand, nor is it immoral.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Do you have the same empathy for the innocent people who died in Iraq/Afghanistan/Gaza? Other gun deaths? Gang members have families too. The tens of thousands who die to car accidents every year? The answer is NO. You're just using a single death to attack people you don't like. When Hillary, Biden, or some other democrat dies MAGA will celebrate.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago

    Its not about sympathy, about the cheering it on. If you were all cheering on the deaths of kids in Gaza, Id call you out on it as well. The point isnt sympathy or empathy or anything else like that. Its about YOU, and those like you, acting the way you are in public forums. You want to be seen to be cheering for murder. You are treating it like your team scored a touch down. Its the type of thing that MAGA does, yet here you all are. Acting just like the people you hate.

    You think Im upset with you because you dont care that Kirk got killed. I dont care that Kirk got killed. What I care about is that WE, the supposed left, dont all get radicalised to the point that we dont see ourselves acting just like the pricks that we hate. But look at you all? Laughing, cheering, saying "get JK next!" and many other repugnant as fuck things. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Youve become the very people you hate. And its disgusting.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    I felt more sympathy for his poor kids when he was still alive.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You dont have to feel sympathy for him, you can be happy hes dead if you want. Its the public cheering and back slapping that ghoulish. Why do you all feel the need to take to social media, and cheer and clap and say dumb shit like "rest in piss"? Cos, up until this week, I thought that was the purview of the MAGA pricks. But here you all are, acting just like them. And none of you see the problem, which is alarming.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    I don't really care if you find the gleeful reaction alarming. They're proud fascists. Right now, Charlie is one of the few good ones, and I hope all the rest follow in his footsteps.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    No they arent, at least, not any more than you are. You lot really dont understand that word. Youve all just said it so much, it means the same amount of nothing that "woke" and "boomer" and "simp" do now. You lot abuse the fucking of buzzwords, and then scratch your head when youre repeatedly proven wrong. Left, right, doesnt matter. If youre part of the culture wars, 9 times of 10, youre dumbest cunt in every room.

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    [–] 24 points 1 year ago
    [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    The Right has more to fear from the Right than the Left. The Left doesn't want to fight. They will if they have to, but they'd much rather avoid it at all costs.

    The Right WANTS the fight. They are stoked, armed, and itching for it, and now some have become so obsessed with political purity that they have become idealogically twisted and are starting to "clean up" their own backyards first.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    The way I as a leftist want to deal with the Charlie Kirk problem (aka online far right influencers) is via a national online forum. Not shooting people. The problem is that people like Charlie are getting undo influence via various foreign and domestic groups donating to him via Crypto and advertising for him for free, especially to children on video games.

    A democracy means everyone gets a say fairly, not that one asshole gets to flood our every commercial and social media feed with his hateful illogic constantly (and there's something to be said here about good faith arguments, freedom of speech, the law, and democracy as well). If his comments were on a classic forum with classic moderation, no vote systems, everyone with one say, he wouldn't be treated like anything special, and he wouldn't be able to interrupt and talk over people either. He'd be like everyone else and his words would have to stand for themselves individually one time, and they are dumb.

    But conservatives solve everything with violence because it's their one solution, just like they have the one joke. This is why we shouldn't spank kids, it just teaches them to incorporate violence as a solution or to use violence before actually problem solving. So they project this regressive ideology onto the left, the progressives which means new ideas that address issues and create progress, which then "conveniently" allows them to justify violence- their one solution that they were always going to arrive at anyway.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I'm worried the center is gonna help 'em. Centrists have always hated the left and always wanted the approval of the right.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Conservatives are self proclaimed domestic terrorists. And they should be handled as such.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    They are projecting. They are accusing the left to be exactly what they themselves are.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Hypocritical Conservatives... journalists don't even bother checking for redundancy

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