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[–] 146 points 1 year ago (15 children)

I believe that's the same for every planet. And every moon. For every orbit.

Its just that the barycenter is inside the more massive object when one is much more massive than the other. Not that this makes much of a difference to anything.

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  • [–] 61 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    Correct.

    I also believe that one of the criteria for a binary planet is that the barycenter is outside either body. Like Pluto/Charon.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Don't forget the other 3 bodies in the Pluto/Charon system

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I just can't remember their names :-(

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I mean, sure, but that'd be like saying I'm pulling the earth towards me when I jump.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Pluto and it's biggest moon Charon about for the very center outside of each other. This means that you could build a space elevator directly between the surface of each of them and it would rotate around that point since they're also tightly locked.

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  • [–] 123 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    The barycenter is sometimes outside the diameter of the sun. Not always, and I believe not even usually.

    Yes, today I'm being that guy. Still a cool factoid.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm kinda stunned that it's EVER outside the sun.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Well, while we are being 'that guy', factoid is one of those words which has changed its meaning by being used wrongly for so long that the original meaning has all but vanished.

    A factoid is technically supposed to be something resembling fact, but not actual fact. (The Greek suffix '-oid' normally being used for that purpose, like in paranoid, "like knowledge" or asteroid, "like a star").

    The best thing about factoid, is that factoid is now a factoid. Because it resembles what it is not lol...

    Anyway, nowadays, you are allowed to use it the way you did, at least in the descriptivist world view. The prescriptivists may disagree, however. And those people are often 'that guy' ;)

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  • [–] 177 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Jokes aside : being right for the wrong reasons is being wrong

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's not wrong. The "common center" lies inside the Sun.

    Therefore, the Sun orbits itself and the Earth orbits the Sun.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    The Man-in-the-middle's statement is akin to the following :

    2 = 3 thus, by multiplying both sides by 0, we get 0 = 0, which is true !

    He said it's in the middle because 2 people disagreed, and he states that the truth lies always in she middle in these situations. which is false, exactly as false as 2 = 3

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  • [–] 61 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

    [Solarsystembarycenter]

    So the Sun is wobbling arround, because of the 3 giants. Fascinating.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The link in your post links to a different image. Was that on purpose?

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  • [–] 88 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    The way this is phrased makes it sound like there's a certain threshold where this starts happening. That's not right. Even a grain of dust wouldn't orbit the sun, they still orbit their common barycenter. A less misleading way of phrasing would be that Jupiter is massive enough that the barycenter of it and the sun actually lies outside the sun, which is still a cool fun fact.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Orbiting a point within the sun is still orbiting the sun.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I mean that's literally the point the image is trying to make. The last sentence says the point is outside the sun for Jupiter.

    I don't think nitpicking the title achieves anything and it's not even misleading unless it's only taken in isolation.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    It says it's so massive they orbit a common point. That directly implies this only happens over a certain mass.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It says it's so massive they orbit a common point outside the sun. Smaller planets don't have their common point outside the sun.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    That's the way I understood it at first. But after reading it again after reading the comments above, I can see the other way of viewing it. I do agree with you that how the sentence is currently written it's confusing.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Yeah pretty much my point. I know you can maybe kinda construe it into the truth if you already know about the topic, like other commenters age saying, but it's presented as educational, and does a poor job at educating with how misleadingly it is phrased.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    That's still not entierly mass dependant, the point is at a distance based on a ratio between the two masses, if Jupiter were closer to the sun then the point would be inside the sun. Its still impressively massive to pull the point outside of the sun at any functional distance but so could a grain of dust with sufficient distance and a big empty universe to prevent anything else from interupting things.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Do all the planets also orbit around that same barycenter, or does each planet have a different one?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    All the solar system matter contributes to an object's orbital center but that's constantly moving as the system moves.

    I think (?) most planets have their barycenter inside the sun's surface

    The gravitational pull of system matter pales in comparison to the sun so you don't need to consider it for amateur purposes.

    You can try KSP (Vanilla) versus Kopernicus mod if you want to feel the difference.

    Also called n-body

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Technically speaking, no celestial body in our solar system orbits around a single point. The barycenter thing only works with two bodies. When there are more than two bodies, such as in our solar system, the orbits become chaotic. Granted, the influence between planets is small, so they all appear to orbit their barycenters with the sun, but there are small perturbations to the orbits caused by the locations and masses of all the other bodies in the solar system.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    The barycenter is different for each planet-sun (or any two object) pairing.

    The earth and moon have a barycenter which is beneath the surface of earth. Likewise, the barycenter of the sun-earth pair is below the surface of the sun

    Edit:

    The barycenter of our solar system orbits the center of our galaxy (again in a barycentric manner)

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I guess they all orbit around the solar system's center of mass (negligibly affected by the universal CoM), but that CoM probably moves around as the planets themselves move.

    Relative to what, you might ask? That depends who you're asking 😉

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I found it super helpful to have the Sun's center of mass labeled!

    I only wish Jupiter's center of mass was also labeled in this graphic. I've been trying to puzzle it out myself, but I'm stumped!

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Jupiter is so massive, if you give it more hydrogen, it gets smaller.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    My dumb friend wants to know why adding more mass would make Jupiter smaller, can you help explain it to him?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I misrembered, it remains roughly the same volume, until 1.6 juipiters of mass, at which point the effect of gravity from each additional hydrogen is greater than the intermolecular forces and additional hydrogen would cause it to compress more than it would grow.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The volume of Jupiter is mostly gas. If you increase the mass enough, at some point the higher gravity and thus higher pressure at the center causes a phase change of enough mass (from gas to liquid or liquid to solid) that the lost volume from the phase change exceeds the original volume of the added mass.

    It's like pushing a bunch of origami paper into a box until a bunch of them collapse and fall flat instead of filling the volume.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Is your friend the same crazy person I know who doesn't eat meat? Are they crazy?

    _i don't know why your comment made me think of that reference _

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

    Is it more true to say that Jupiter (and the other planets and asteroid belts and dust clouds in our solar system) orbits the Sun, and the Sun orbits the barycenter? The barycenter that the sun revolves around is influenced (marginally) by the other bodies in the solar system and not just Jupiter. If the definition of a barycenter is to be interpreted as this image suggests, that would mean that no material object orbits another material object and they instead orbit their collective center of mass somewhere in space.

    Edit: to clarify, I understand the physics and motion at play. The phrasing just seems misleading/incorrect to me.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    no material object orbits another material object and they instead orbit their collective center of mass somewhere in space.

    That’s exactly what happens. Why do you think this is incorrect?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    It seems to fundamentally change what it means “to orbit” something.

    As I understood the term, orbiting would be used correctly in these cases:

    • A lighter object orbits a heavier object, and both of their paths of motion are elliptical about their barycenter

    • Two objects of identical mass orbit each other, and their paths of motion are circular about their barycenter

    In contrast, the image above implies the following:

    • A lighter object does not orbit a heavier object; they both orbit their barycenter with an elliptical path of motion

    • Two objects of identical mass do not orbit each other; they both orbit their barycenter with a circular path of motion

    Even the Wikipedia page for barycenter, which OP linked to, opens with the following:

    “the barycenter… is the center of mass of two or more bodies that orbit one another and is the point about which the bodies orbit.”

    Perhaps “orbit” as a verb has two meanings, depending on the specificity of the context.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    I guess your conclusion is right. In situations where the barycenter of two (or more) objects is not sufficiently different from the center of mass of the heaviest object, we simplify the description by assuming that the barycenter and the center of mass of the heavier object are equal.

    Just because I’ve already edited it, here’s an animation of Earth orbiting the Earth–Moon barycenter:

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No, your earlier definitions are incorrect. All orbits happen around the barycenter. The only question is whether one of the bodies is large/massive enough that the barycenter is located within it

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Just because a more accurate description exists, doesn't mean that the less accurate description is fundamentally wrong. Depending on context, the less accurate description may be perfectly suitable for the subject at hand. If your priority is to be the most correct, then by all means go ahead and use the more accurate description.

    I think this logic applies to a lot of things.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    That’s why I lose my balance!

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Jeeezzz...Gravity is relentless.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    i mean, with that logic, nothing orbits anything

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    No, this is actually really relevant. This is part of the logic applied to labeling Pluto a dwarf planet. Pluto and it's moon do this, Earth and our moon do not. Yes, obviously the center of mass of the two isn't the exact center of the earth but it's still within the earth.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Asking a physicist about the center of an object is like asking a Tumblr user about thr color of the sky. The only response will be "which one?" And a sigh of exhaustion

    Center of volume ≠ center of mass ≠ center of systemic gravity ≠ center of lift…

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    but the density of an object is variable. i mean you can define the diffrence between an orbit and a co-spiral to be based on the physical size of the denser planetary body containing the orbit center point, though that seems arbitrary.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    And Pluto knows that Pluto's
    Hot shit
    And you know Pluto knows it
    "I won't ever be a planet
    It don't matter 'cause I know that I'm still"
    Hot shit
    "And you're hot shit too, so get out of your brain And just do what you're supposed to do"

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